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Discussion on Charlie Horses/Tremors/Spasms
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Member:
Tonja
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 24, 2003 - 9:23 pm:
Hello!! I have a huge foundation 1600 lb 10 year old paint gelding that is the picture of health EXCEPT I have noticed lately that he has been getting "Charlie horses". It is just one muscle that bunches up real hard (like a rock) and gets HUGE (about the size of a mini football) and if you feel it you can feel it twitching. You can even see it twitching. It has been his muscle on the left side of his rump/croup and mostly affecting muscles in the heartgirth region. It never seems to be the same muscle. He paws and bites at them but other than that he seems okay. The vet is coming out for their annual exams and I was wondering what (if any) tests he should run...EPM, electrolyte balance?? He has no HYPP in his bloodlines anywhere??? Any suggestions? I feed good grass alfalfa hay mix and Horse Guard supplement with about 5 lbs of alfalfa pellets a day. I also give him a magnesium supplement (about 5000 MG )since his supplement contained a trace amount. Could it be an excess of mag?? I read all your articles on minerals and electroytes and it sounds like he should be okay on his diet but???? The supplement does not contain any potassium??? I am just trying to figure out why all of a sudden he would get these tremors when nothing has really changed. None of my other horses have ever had that problem? Any ideas would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Tonja
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Member:
Suzeb
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Posted on Thursday, Apr 24, 2003 - 10:43 pm:
Hello Tonja,
I can't advise you on what tests to run, but I am curious about your geldings weight. How tall is he and how did you arrive at 1600lbs? I have used various methods to determine my quarterhorse geldings weight and have found that the predetermined weight tape sold or given with a deworming paste is the least accurate to actually having him on a weigh scale for large animals to be the most accurate. My very seasoned vet who does the field or mobile calls for the teaching hospital has estimated my horses weight at around 1250 or 1300lbs when actually he is around 1100lbs when put on a weigh scale. He is 15.3 hands but looks heavier because he is built like a cement truck. Large heart girth measurement. Your symptoms might suggest tying up, but your vet who is coming out for annual health check will have to determine the cause. Does your horse display these symptoms at rest or after a hard workout? I hope I have given you some useful ideas.  Susan B.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Apr 25, 2003 - 7:40 am:
Hello Tonja,
I would start with a good physical exam and complete lab work up to look for electrolyte abnormalities and muscle enzymes. I think it would also be important to run the lab tests during one of the episodes. While EPM is not a possiblity EPSM is: Equine Diseases » Lameness » Diseases of the Upper Rear Limb » Tying Up, Rhabdomyolysis, and Shivers (EPSM).
I would also double check the HYPP status, prior to the use of DNA typing a lot of funny stuff happened.
I agree that 5 gm of a magnesium supplement daily should not be toxic (<.4 % of diet) but maybe your horse has a unusual sensitivity: it could effect muscle function that initilly manifests as fasiculations. Feeds contain adequate amounts of magnesium and excess amounts of potasium so supplementation is not required. I would discontinue it by gradually reducing it over a week.
DrO
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Member:
Tonja
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Posted on Friday, Apr 25, 2003 - 9:59 am:
Thank you both very much for all the great info. My gelding is 15.1 hands and is not too overweight but is built like a work horse and I did use the weight tape. Maybe it is really inaccurate. I will try a different method to get a more accurate weight :-)
I will also have the vet do a good work up and do a HYPP test. The episodes ALWAYS happen at night right before I feed them their alfalfa pellets. Usually later at night (when there is not a vet around). We have very poor vet services here. We only have a horse vet on call every other weekend and sometimes not at all. So sadly unless I see one happen during the day. I think it would be hard to get a test while he is having one and they come and go so suddenly I know the vet could not get out there quick enough :-(
I will just keep him on his horse guard mega dose at 700 mg mag a day?? Do you think that would be okay or should I find a different supplement. I have had very bad luck with the horse feeds that are out there. They contain more carbs and starches and too much molasses and ALL have grain products as the main ingredient. My horses are idle all the time and just get too much of that stuff since you have to feed a TON of it to get the vitamins. This horse actually had gastric ulcers when I bought him and they have healed up. I agree that a complete feed is great, but all horses have specific needs and I feel that a good quality hay and water and salt are all you SHOULD need. But good hay is hard to find and my horses I bought all have pre-existing conditions from poor nutrition and neglect. I just wish there was a feed out there that was alfalfa based!!!!!
Thank you very much
Tonja
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Apr 25, 2003 - 4:19 pm:
Sure that would be fine. There are feeds based on alfalfa, they are usually pelleted.
DrO
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Member:
Tonja
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Posted on Saturday, Apr 26, 2003 - 12:51 am:
Thanks soo much. I know I always worry about imbalances. I have looked at Triple Crown Lite but it is very hard to get in my area. Is there any other brands you know of that might be alfalfa based with little molasses? I was looking at Nutrena Legacy but it sure has a lot of corn in it. I really appreciate all your help. This website is a must for any horse owner :-)
Thanks alot,
Tonja
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