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  Discussion on Recurring Diarrhea in Healthy Mare
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New Member:
Sdhart

Posted on Monday, May 26, 2003 - 3:10 pm:

Recurring Diarrhea in Healthy horse
Long Story. Hope I can make it coherent.
We purchased Paula, our pinto stock type mare in Jan 2000 and she was 9yrs old at that time. This is our first horse and we’ve learned a lot. She is housed in a run in barn with a good size paddock, and lots of fresh water.In the first year,she grazed a new pasture and was fed too much alfalfa hay and became fat but was healthy. She is wormed regularly.
In Nov of that year I had not increased her hay enough for the cold weather and she got into some old dirty straw (goats housed too close), and came down with acute diarrhea. Fecal showed high numbers of coccidia and she was treated very successfully with metronidazole.
One month later (Dec 2000) she ate pine shavings (still not feeding her enough) and suffered a pretty severe colic which was treated by tubing her with mineral oil. All returned to normal however this was the beginning of a continuing problem with her gut.
In the next year she developed diarrhea several (maybe 3) times for no apparent reason except that I didn’t have a constant supply of hay and it changed often. I always did this slowly and the diarrhea didn’t seem to be directly related to the change but I still thought that could have been the cause. Each time she was again treated with metronidazole. At no time was there evidence of worms or coccidia and we also tested for salmonella. Since the metronidazole worked, we went with that. I also started giving her Fastrack, thinking that we had probably changed the balance of flora in her gut. On each occasion, the loose stools developed slowly and then got to the point were it was liquid and hitting the walls. I never thought I would be washing a horses butt so often.
We purchased a young (18 mos) stable mate in Oct 2001 and started taking Paula to lessons weekly, which all went fine.
Last Nov 2002, it happened again. Treated with metro again for 4 days. She was good for a week then it returned so we treated again for 5 days and she held. I started with the Fastrack immediately upon finishing the metro but had to steadily increase the amount until she was getting about a cup a day because the threat of her stools becoming looser seemed eminent and I didn’t want to use the metronidazole again only because we didn’t seem to be solving the problem.
In March of this year I dared to say it had all resolved, as her stool was perfect. Within a week of that brave statement the diarrhea returned. I tried for two weeks using Koapectate, and then Peptobismol and finally resorted to the Metronidazole again. It has always amazed me because it takes affect within 12 hours. This time the vet put her on it for 7 days. That was 35, 250mg tabs twice a day. That was April 20,2003. During all these episodes she appears healthy, with a good appetite, has continued to be wormed regularly, and maintains a healthy weight and coat condition. I have had one source of good hay this year, but it is almost totally Reed Canary grass, which I have been told could be questionable. We started giving her pelleted grain when her workload increased but stopped every time she got diarrhea.
The vet admits that he feels we are not getting to the cause of her problem but the next step is taking her to the University of Guelph for testing. Obviously I am concerned about the cost this may entail and am currently waiting for an estimate.
Her stools have been good, appetite good and working well at lessons and shows. (Western gaming at the club level.)
Now, on May 20, she became somewhat colicky, no appetite, listless, laying down constantly ( which is not normal for her). The vet came out, all vitals were normal, her blood work was not abnormal, he gave her a B12 shot and we watched. She laid down a lot, kicked and bit at her belly more often than usual and it’s now a week later, and her appetite has slowly returned but not quite to normal. I have been trying to get her started on pasture very slowly because of her temperamental gut. Started at 10 min a day and I’m up to ½ hour but now the diarrhea has returned. The pasture is quite lush with more clover in it then I would like but lots of good grass. I’m not sure that this is related to her long-standing problem but I’m getting very discouraged.
During all of this the pasture mate is unfazed and healthy. They get their hay 3 times a day, together on rubber stall mats in the paddock to avoid any consumption of soil. It’s not really sandy, just dirt, but I try to minimize any possible problems. I scoop all their DrOpping daily to keep the worm situation in control.
Paula would be described as somewhat nervous and a bit mareish although I overlook this. We live on a very busy farm with large machinery and trucks driving past her daily. I am not convinced that stress is a problem for her. At lessons and shows she seems quite comfortable. I wonder if she has been forced into the position of lead mare and would really prefer not to be since she is quite relaxed at group lessons and shows, but works hard at keeping her pasture mate in line. Perhaps she just wants to be one of the herd. On trail rides around the farm she does get a bit excited but I think that is because we haven’t done enough to get her used to it.
The vet has now suggested that possibly she may have ulcers. I’m note sure if I should treat her without further testing but I think inevitably we will be heading off to the university. I expect my vet doesn’t have a scope and that may be one of their suggestions.
My vet is away and since she is eating better I am just going to take her off pasture and see if the stools firm up, but I know this will not be the end.
I have read both sections on “diarrhea” and “Ulcers”. She doesn’t really fit the profile for ulcers.
Any suggestions you can offer would be greatly appreciated. Sue Hart
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 6:37 am:

Hello Sue,
Though you sometimes see associations, I agree gastric ulcers are a uncommon cause of diarrhea this remarkable. Unless the horse is shown to have malabsorption synDrOme or had clinical signs or a CBD indicating an infectious disease I would assume the colic episode is unrelated to the diarrhea.

We have a list of a dozen suggestions in the article associated with this forum: Equine Diseases » Colic and GI Diseases » Diarrhea in Horses » Diarrhea an Overview. However if the metronidazole remains effective I am not sure first I would try a longer course and then wean the horse off of it instead on removing it suddenly.
DrO
Member:
Sdhart

Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 8:03 am:

Dr O. Thank you so much for your prompt response. I always check my e-mail first thing in the morning and was delighted to see your response, faster than my own vet.
In my first post (sorry it was so long) I didn't ask specific questions, so here you are.
Is the Reed Canary grass a problem?
Is the large amount of clover in her pasture a concern?
Since her symptoms are not pointing to ulcers would scoping be advisable at this point?
Does the metronidazole wipe out all gut flora so that the use of something like fastrack become important and can I cause further problems by giving too much?
Is there any point in giving her Kaopectate? I've been giving her 260ml 3 times a day and haven't seen results yet.
I believe that you are saying that since the Metronidazole works, then that is the answer. Could you be more specific on a longer course with rate and time frame?
Thanks again. I feel somewhat relieved. Sue Hart
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2003 - 10:39 pm:

I think any food stuff may be the problem if an allergy develops, you should remove them one at a time replacing them with something suitable to see if the answer lies there. No metronidazole does not kill all the flora and is generally well tolerated. I do not know if it is the answer or not but am suggesting you try a longer regimen and once the horse is firm, lets say 4 weeks, you wean the horse off of it over another 4 weeks. The times are randomly picked by me and not based on anything I have read. If you do not see results with Kaopectate why continue it? The list of treatments in the article are generally in descending order of their relative chance of helping but with the cost and risk also factored into the ranking.
DrO
Member:
Sdhart

Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 10:23 am:

Thank you Dr.O for your response. I have read and re-read the many articles available on diarrhea and nutrition and very much enjoy the forum discussions. I am very impressed with all the information availabe and am learning a lot.
Paula seems a bit better. Eating fairly normally,not kicking at her gut and I haven't caught her lying down for two days. So the colic has subsided except for the diarrhea. I don't believe this is quite the same as her long standing problem, just a result of whatever upset her last weekend.
I've stopped the Kaopectate and did not let her out on pasture yesterday and think I will start adding Beet pulp to her routine. So now all she is getting is hay (I believe good quality based on what I have read) three times a day and about two cups of beet pulp(pelleted and soaked for 1 hour). So I guess it's wait and see. I'll let you know. Thanks again Sue Hart
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2003 - 6:29 pm:

As long as she is acting like she does not feel well, I would not take a wait and see attitude, this should be pursued aggressively to try and see if this is something that needs direct treatment. The diarrhea will be a trial and error thing however.
DrO
Member:
Sdhart

Posted on Monday, Jun 2, 2003 - 8:15 am:

Goodmorning Dr O. Just an update to let you know that my horse is much improved. When I said in my last post "wait and see" she was showing some signs of improvement, it was just the loose stool. I stopped letting her out on pasture, and fed soaked beet pulp pellets twice a day along with hay 3 times a day. It took several days but now her stool is very close to normal and I am confident that she is feeling better. I think I will wait a few more days before starting her out on pasture again. Thank you for the excellent information available on this site. It is far superior to any other source I've tried. Thanks again Sue Hart
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Jun 2, 2003 - 3:35 pm:

Great Sue,
Thanks for the kudos and keep us informed.
DrO
Member:
Sdhart

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 2, 2003 - 8:47 am:

Just an FYI regarding Paula's stools. Since starting her on the beet pulp in June her stools have become perfect. This is the longest stretch in two years without the diarrhea problem. I'm convinced it's the beet pulp. She's looking great.
Member:
Cara2

Posted on Saturday, Sep 6, 2003 - 11:24 am:

Great news Sue. My mare also stopped within 24 hours of being given beet pulp, plus I know she is getting some extra fluid in as she hardly seems to drink anything out of her bucket.
Member:
Ribbons

Posted on Sunday, Sep 7, 2003 - 8:27 am:

I hope this doesn't double post. We have mare with diarrhea problems and what works for us is Nutrena Legacy feed and daily wormer.Legacy is a superior beet pulp based food that contains lots of good things for digestion and hoof growth. Their website has all the specifics. I justify the cost by not having to pay for expensive supplements which our mare would sift out of her feed and time savings from not having to soak beet pulp.With in 10 days of starting the new regimen she looked like a new horse. I am not a Nutrena rep, but after trying many different feeds, ect., to try to control the problem, this works the best. She still has occasional diarrhea, but seems to be only when she is stressed-our hint to look into her enviroment.
Member:
Caroltd

Posted on Monday, Oct 13, 2003 - 11:11 am:

We too have a mare (15 years old) who has diarrhea only once a year but severe when it comes,and always in the fall (after a hard frost). It comes on quick...one day fine, the next loose watery stool.

She gets the best of care, shots, dentistry, twice yearly checkups. Our vet says she is in great shape, weight is right, skin condition, etc. all excellent. So here we are in the fall and again we have diarrhea. She continues to eat, drink without problem. Her hay supply has not changed, her meds and supplements are the same, her grain is the same. She has not worked hard for the last month, just pleasure riding...show season (for my daughter) is over and she even put on a couple of pounds.

There is no sign of fever, her pinch test is fine. She is not biting or kicking at her stomach. This year we are seeing signs of depression (this is the first year we've had her at home where we see her every day and so are very conscious of her daily habits and demeanor).

Last year our vet prescribed a 5-day heavy duty worming package, after which the diarrhea pretty much disappeared (maybe three or four very loose stools in the next month and then no more).

So here are my questions: Can a change in the weather (here in Vermont we've had hard frost and then 10 degree above normal temperatures) affect a horse in such a way? Can the reduction of pasture (grass growth has slowed down considerably) make a difference? Should we just automatically add beet pulp to her diet in the fall? Is it possible that the chemical makeup of the grass itself changes after the frost and thus could cause this problem?

Sorry this is such a long message...but my daughter gets very upset when her mare is sick and she can't find a reason for it.

As always, thanks for all the info and help!

Carol
Member:
Golden

Posted on Friday, Aug 5, 2005 - 1:01 pm:

Beet pulp is wonderful/ I have a 20 year old mare with the same problem,her diaheria explodes out of her.and right now we are fighting a skinny horse.Blood work fine ,dewormed reguarly the whole thing. But we have to karopetate her everday right now and beet pulp and caola oil will put fat on slowly.But can't find out the problem either.I think she has to be taken off of pasture for good and feed good quality hay and soaked beet pulp to stop diaheria. I noticed when we put her on psture she went down hill to lush,hay is better free of choice all day and beet pulp 3 times a day.with a cup of hammermilled oats to easy digest.
Member:
Vickiann

Posted on Friday, Aug 5, 2005 - 4:23 pm:

For 11 years I have been cleaning my paint horse's rear end! He had the runny butt when I got him at 8 years of age. A couple of years later when I stressed him badly in the heat over a period of days he came up with the "thumps" and was pretty sick, so I called the Vet. At that time he tested positive for salmonellosis, as did a horse stabled next to him that same week at a clinic. My Vet. treated this aggressively, and after a few months he was finally cleared. The other younger horse who was not treated aggressively, only quarantined, recovered in about the same amount of time. Any kind of stress, change of diet, parasites, or a little sand in him will cause a flair up. He gets especially bad in the heat of summer in Florida, which is stressful. I have wondered whether he could be a salmonella carrier, but my other horses have never caught the problem. The one thing that has helped him more than anything is a daily cup of Sand Clear (given all at once in the same feeding rather than split up) PLUS the monthly 7-days consecutive course of psyllium, (on which days I up the amount to about 1 1/3 cups). I should add that this is a fat, healthy horse who seems unfazed by this problem. I've tried great numbers of remedies and know it is important to keep him wormed without over-worming. Probiotics sometimes seemed to help but not very reliably. The psyllium for him seems to act as a digestive aid. It is really great to very seldom have to hose his rear end off any more and it hasn't been as bad once this year as it was just about every day the other summers. During the winter he was getting some beet pulp feed but this summer he is only getting a daily total of 3 cups of Triple Crown 12% supplement because he has plenty of grass and is overweight. This summer I am only hosing him down to cool him off due to the heat! It took me all these years of trial and error to find what helps him the most and know it won't be the same for all horses, but maybe this will help someone. It is one of the suggested possible remedies on this site.
New Member:
huf5

Posted on Monday, Dec 8, 2008 - 12:21 pm:

Hi, I know this is an out-dated post, but I would like to comment on Carol Tank-Days comment about her horse having diarrhea only after a hard frost in the fall.
In the fall the level of sugar in the vegetation/grass can rise dramatically after a frost, as the grass is trying to survive, this in turn can lead to colic, laminitis, founder, etc. in horses. Access to loose salt and minerals are vital during this time so that the horse is bale to have a fast intake in order to adjust to the changing seasons.

You may want to try taking her off pasture and turning her out in a dry-lot until the snow covers the ground.

:-)
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