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  Discussion on Wet shavings turning red?
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Member:
Valerieg

Posted on Sunday, Jun 1, 2003 - 8:52 am:

I have noticed when cleaning my TB's stall that once in awhile that his wet pine shavings are bright red. Once or twice, it seems that his urine has pooled in a spot and the urine is red. But when I watch my horse urinate, his urine always appears to be normal in color, yellow to milky yellow. The wet shavings are usually removed daily, but it is possible that some small wet areas may not be fully removed. Could this just be a chemical reaction to the pine shavings if urine has sat in it for an extended length of time? Since I never see the red shavings from the top - only on wet stuff that I turn over - this leads me to believe it is a chemical reaction between the shavings and his urine, although I was surprised to see a red pool about a week ago.
I had a urinalysis done a few months ago - and again last Friday - I think everything is normal?:
(due to space suppression - I can't get the values to line up correctly)
03-08-03 05-30-03
VOLUME 80.0 2.0 ML
COLOR Dk Yellow Yellow
CLARITY Hazy Clear
SP GRAV 1.022 1.022
GLUCOSE Neg Neg
BILIRUBIN Neg Neg
KETONES Neg Neg
BLOOD Neg Neg
PH 8.0 8.0
PROTEIN Neg Neg
WBC None 0-2
RBC None 0-2
BACTERIA None None
EPI CELL Rare <1LPF (same)
MUCUS None None
CASTS None None
CRYSTALS 4+ >50 LPF (same) Calcium Carbonate
OTHER (not listed) lipid DrOplets present
UROBILINOGEN Normal Normal

His diet - twice a day:
2-3 flakes of hay (I believe it is alfalfa) with another 2 flakes at night
1.5 lbs crimped oats
1 cups of rice bran
1 tblsp aspirin (has apple flavoring)
1 scoop cosequin
1 scoop MSM
I was also giving Platinum Performance for a few months - 1 scoop/ twice a day - but have reduced that to nothing over the past month.
He has a regular white salt block and a red mineral block in his stall. He has switched to the white salt over the past few months - from the red. I cannot be certain if he is overdoing the salt. He has slowly come off stall rest for the past 6 months (slab fracture in his knee). We now are walking about 30 min a day with minimal trotting. His attitude seems normal when he is in his stall. Riding, he is somewhat cranky at times - but I think he has become rather lazy while on stall rest, so he just likes giving me a hard time, hoping I'll stop riding.


Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Jun 1, 2003 - 9:19 am:

Hello Annette,
It is not the pine shavings causing this, as this is an often noted phenomenea on snow also. It is some of the phyto(plant)pigments that are in the horses urine reacting to air: they turn red. This is a pretty common phenomenea.
DrO
Member:
Valerieg

Posted on Sunday, Jun 1, 2003 - 12:16 pm:

Thanks for the quick reply!

While I do not doubt your answer - I am surprised that I could only find 1 web site (at google.com) that mentions shavings turning red from urine. Am I the only one that has ever seen this? Another owner in our barn noticed the red stuff, too, and she said she has never seen red urine spots from a gelding - it does happen when mares are in heat. Her horse is a gelding and she has never seen it in her horse's stall. And I have not heard any other owners say their horse has it at times.

The ad I found on the web was from Woody Pet shavings that says their product can turn red from excess ammonia. I do not use their product - I use another brand of pine shavings. I found another mention of red urine in snow (which I have heard about before) but this site said the urine must have been exposed to sunlight. My horses's stall floor never gets direct sunlight. I don't think his urine has an ammonia smell. So, I would have to think this is coming from one of the supplements I have been giving him. MSM is rather recent (past 3 months or so). Could this be a cuplrit? He has been on Cosequin for almost 2 years - with some aspirin. The apple flavoring in the aspirin and the rice bran has been added in the past 6 months. I have seen the red shavings more in the past few months, but I can't say for sure if I haven't seen it prior to the new diet (if I did, it was rare). Does MSM help absorption of the Cosequin (that was the reason I added it.) I'd rather get rid of the red if I can, if he should some day develop a urinary problem.
Member:
Jojo15

Posted on Monday, Jun 2, 2003 - 2:06 am:

I do know that urine can change color depending on the intake.

But, I have seen many times the change you are talking about and I haven't changed feed in months. Once the urine hits the air, shavings, and sits around, it just changes color. and there is really nothing to do about it. We get different shavings from different sources all the time. Same thing.

But it takes awhile to change color. I live in a hot and humid area which might add to it. Plus, If I don't clean the stall well and leave some wet shavings they will turn a dark red color over time. Or when they are too saturated. I have also noticed the clay base will at times change to a red gray coloring if not dug out properly.

also, you can't mistake the ammonia smell. It is the most pungent of smells.

jojo
Member:
Bonita

Posted on Monday, Jun 2, 2003 - 7:31 am:

This happens in all my stalls with all my horses regardless of age or sex, & has for many, many years. When I first became a horse owner & noticed it, I too was very concerned, but my vet immediately assured me it was normal & due to the same reason Dr. O mentions above.
Member:
Trouble

Posted on Monday, Jun 2, 2003 - 12:27 pm:

I see this occasionally, too.

I use pine shavings, clean stalls every day, and don't change feed or feed habits.

Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Jun 2, 2003 - 1:41 pm:

Run a search on this site you will seem many such posts over the years.
DrO
Member:
Quatro

Posted on Monday, Feb 2, 2004 - 11:32 pm:

This is a rather late post on this subject. But I was happy to have spent my money to support this site. I noticed the reddish/orange in the snow today for the 2nd time, and having been dealing with the diarrhea problem, I thought, oh no, not another concern. But hey, sounds like I don't have to loose sleep tonight. Noticed this reddish shavings in all my horses stalls before. I feel a better already!
thanks
sue
New Member:
ngreen

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 26, 2008 - 2:54 pm:

Ok, so the red color doesn't bother me so much anymore. On the other hand, what if the whole mess turns black? I confess I probably don't clean out the pee spots as often as I should, but I am trying to not spend a $!$#$% fortune on shavings.
Is black a sign that I've gone too far in my conservation efforts?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 27, 2008 - 7:22 am:

If the bedding wet or there is ammonia odor, you have gone to far.
DrO
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