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  Discussion on Enteroliths possible
Author Message
Member:
Phelps

Posted on Friday, Jun 13, 2003 - 12:56 am:

doctor o,
i am not sure this belongs under here but i guess it is a good place to start. my ten year old daughter's appaloosa gelding has been presenting some odd symptoms that can't be pinned down. cletus is 5 years old and i have owned him for almost two years. occasionally in the past he would have episodes where in the middle of eating he would just stop and stand there. i wondered about choke occasionally but nothing ever came of these. a few days ago he came in to eat and did the same thing. this time he became more distressed and was very tender in his right flank area. he showed very mild signs of colic , had a temp of 101 and limited gut sounds. after watching him for a few minutes he went down flat, but no rolling. called the vet and by the time the vet got there he was back up and feeling much more normal. the vet treated him routinely for colic , his resting heart rate was 42. we discussed his symptoms and history and the vet felt that ulcers might be the cause. cletus is out in a herd environment 24/7. he only comes in to eat. he is on a high fiber/roughage low concentrate diet and gets only grass hay ,no alfalfa. his grain is a equal mix of oats,barley and corn (no molassas). i have used beet pulp in the past because he is very hard to keep weight on. i am having a hard time going along with the ulcer idea. i researched enteroliths and bladder stones and know he is on the young side for these...... any thoughts. he is also showing signs of straining to urinate. he will only do this when being ridden but i have noticed that he urinates immediately after riding now. he is a very mellow guy but now i wonder if he is mellow or lethargic. hope this gets my story across .... it is hard to be short and to the point and get all the facts in. my thoughts on my next step are a complete blood workup and urinalysis and utrasound, i know i can do abdominal x-rays for stones and scope for an ulcer too. am i kindof on the right track ...... or way off base. any ideas would be great, thanks, lois
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Jun 13, 2003 - 6:08 am:

Since there were no attempts at rolling nor do you describe actual signs of distress have you considered Narcolepsy or even HYPP? I have had clients confuse both of these with mild recurrent colics at meal time. You should also continue to think possible mild recurrent choke.

If we are fairly sure it is colic you are on the right track but I don't know Lois, only one "for sure" episode of colic would not be enough for me to get out the big (expensive) guns which should include scoping for ulcers. I agree that ulcers are unlikely in the environment you describe, but the fact that he is a difficult keeper supports the idea. And you pick apart any other diagnosis on single issues: enteroliths are not common in those not on alfalfa (see article for more on this).

You could go through all those procedures and still not know what is causing these episodes...on the other hand you might hit the lottery and find a problem before it becomes critical. See colic overview for a more complete list of possible causes.
DrO
Member:
Phelps

Posted on Friday, Jun 13, 2003 - 8:32 am:

thanks for the input. i will check into the hypp and narcolepsy. i have started a journal for him so i can keep track more throughly of any more episodes and go from there. i hope i am wrong completely about him but i want to be aware before i might have to face anything big. i do know that in the past two weeks or so the small signs have become more noticeable...... but again am i just looking to hard or is there something really there. thanks again .... i have read through alot of these posts on other things and your opinions and comments are always very informative and practical. lois
Member:
Dommay

Posted on Friday, Jun 13, 2003 - 9:02 am:

HI there,
I do have a yearling who does show sign of hypp. He is a heterozygous H/N. But the signs of mild hypp, at least what my guy shows, looks like a charlie horse in his neck and very stiff.
He at times would lay down in the evenings in his stall and it would take him a couple times before coming to his feet. No MAJOR muscle tremors which are usually in neck area through flanks. Very stiff movement would accomodate this as well.
My boy is on acetazolomide and after his first major doze, he acted like a normal 1 yo.
I have never noticed him not eat, even with very mild signs.
Hope that could help in some way.
He never strains to urinate especially on the meds. They are a diuretic which cause him to urinate.
Good luck!
Member:
Phelps

Posted on Friday, Jun 13, 2003 - 4:54 pm:

thanks dominique, i read up on hypp and the sy mptoms don't seem to match up. cletus is never stiff just uncomfortable. thanks for the input. lois
Member:
Aaring

Posted on Friday, Jun 13, 2003 - 9:29 pm:

Just a thought...what is your worming schedule? My gelding's problems, which sounded similar to yours, resolved after I followed Dr. O's worming protocol, particularly the double doseage of Strongid for tapeworms. I'm pretty sure now that he had a massive infestation of tapes although we never saw them in the fecal exams. Something cheap and easy to consider. Good luck!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Jun 14, 2003 - 9:48 am:

Remember lois, though some horses may show stiffness and muscle fasiculations during some stages: flaccid paralysis is the hallmark of HYPP. Some horses never appear stiff but uncomfortable is on the list.
DrO
Member:
Phelps

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 17, 2003 - 10:33 pm:

i have been using dr. o's worming routine for the past two years. (rotate quest and zimectrin yearly ). cletus has no impressive blood in him.... doesn't that rule out hypp (goes back five generations). he seems to be doing good. still urinates alot when riding. more actual urinating now instead of just going through the motions. sunday he urinated three times in about an hour and a half while riding (just light riding). lois
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 18, 2003 - 7:17 am:

That rules out HYPP.
DrO
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