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Discussion on Abnormal Hoof Growth in my yearling-Help!
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Member:
Dommay
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Posted on Monday, Jun 16, 2003 - 2:32 pm:
Hi there,
This is the closest post to what my question is.
I have a yearling 14 mos old. He too had beautiful soft to the touch smooth hooves.
He had been trimmed about 1 1/2 months ago and looked wonderful-same soft to touch hooves from cornet band to ground.
I have recently noticed, on all 4 feet, new hoof growth that is rigid and not soft like the older hoof. It is also a smaller circumference. When I rub my fingers down from the foot, I feel rigidness, then my fingers widen slightly to hit the normal/old smooth hoof. There is about 7/8ths of an inch new growth on each hoove.
I am concerned about this, as I want to make sure this is not leading to founder or any other condition. He shows no lameness other than mild stiffness from his hypp condition. I notice though that he does sleep during the day at times and when I call him, he bouces back and forth and does get up {still showing no lameness etc...}
Yes he has been on pasture night and day for the past month and a half, 2 weeks ago he came home to my barn and has a buddy there with about 3 acres fresh pasture. I do keep him in at night now, due to good pasture. I know the growth did not stem from 2 weeks of my pasture, so I am guessing it started from him being out on solely pasture at the other barn plus his normal Pure Pride 100 and Athlete topping. He is an HYPP Hetero and is on acetozolomide 2x a day. 3 in a.m., 3 in p.m. Has been on that since 3/6/03.
If anyone can let me know what this may be, that would be wonderful. He needs to be trimmed as his feet are growing like wild fire. The farrier is coming back out Wednesday to check him out and trim him up.
I am extremely overprotective of this little guy as I got him out of a bad situation to give him a great home. I do not want any damage done to his feet.
So if anyone can please help, that would be great. I did check and read the articles on lameness, hoof structure/growth etc..., but nothing is answering my questions.
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Member:
Hwood
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Posted on Monday, Jun 16, 2003 - 4:51 pm:
Dominique,
I am sure you will get many replies from folks more knowledgeable than I about foals and hoof growth . . . I will say, though, that often changes in the hoof wall are due to changes in feed . . . for example, when horses get turned out on pasture in the spring/summer, their hooves often change and you can see the "line of demarcation," if you will, betweent when the horses stopped eating hay and grain and started on grass.
Hooves tell us a story about when there has been traumatic change in a horse's life (illness, diet change, other trauma)similar to what the growth lines in a tree can tell us about wet and dry years during the growth cycles.
Holly
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Member:
Pones
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Posted on Monday, Jun 16, 2003 - 6:32 pm:
Hi
Don't worry Dominique it's entirely normal. I will see if I can get a photo of my yearling's feet - she has a growth line on them exactly the same as you are describing. The horn 'under' it appears soft and smooth and then the new growth seems 'tighter' and denser horn.
Horn grows on average 0.25mm per day, so if you measure the growth you will be able to work out when the change started to occur!
Don't forget that a yearling's hooves/feet need to grow in 'size' as well as the rest of the body, and this will also account for differences in circumference of the hoof.
If I get a photo I will post it - if you can get a photo of your yearling's hooves we'll be able to see what you are looking at!
Hope this helps!
Heidi 
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Member:
Dommay
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 17, 2003 - 8:42 am:
Hi all,
Thanks so so much!
I spoke with my vet as well and we traced the timing back to when "Romeo" my yearling was brought home by me for the first time.
He was in a poor environment and was not cared for in the fashion he is now.
I will try to get a pic of his feet tonight for you.
I am very happy to have received such quick feedback from all of you.
Also, when Romeo was purchased in early March, he was body clipped for a halter show. He is just now starting to loose his winter coat, so he has been through a lot since maybe January 03 til March 03.
Thanks again!
Dom
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Member:
Dommay
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 26, 2003 - 10:28 am:
hi all,
It is me again regarding the above. My farrier stated that these so called growth rings looked bad and could be due to a major change in this little guy. The growth is continuing and his hooves are growing really fast. What I thought was a 7/8" growth is almost half of his hoof. When I felt them yesterday, it seemed that new growth is somewhat smoother.
My farrier also stated the one hind hoof was not previously trimmed correctly which pushed the hoof to look bent to the right. He is coming every 2 weeks to try and correct this for me.
Also when I picked up the little guys feet last night {his front right foot}, I noticed pinkish red at the base of the back of the foot and when I pressed this, he seemed sore. not sure what this is from.
Heidi, If you could send a photo to me, that would be great. I fear I will never be able to show this boy in hand due to the abnormal look of his hooves.
Doc-
Will something like this ever grow out? I bought him at 13 months of age and he looked awesome.
We went through some symptoms of hypp and he has been on acetazolomide, a new diet of pellets/athlete by purina, mixed grass hay...and w/in 2 months he was staying out in pasture 24/7 with a pasture buddy. Not a super lush pasture and vet said that he could not see him foundering.
I am just really concerned that this is causing him some other damage that I am not seeing.
He has been trimmed once by this new farrier and again in 2 weeks. Farrier seems to think it was the last way he was trimmed that is causing the hoof to look bent to the right, but the rings are another story.
Any advise on how to correct these rings or when they will go away.
thanks!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 26, 2003 - 6:29 pm:
They will grow out but the cause is still uncertain from the information in your post. Look carefully at the coronet band just above the hoof: does it look normal or is there hair loss and scurffiness. If so run a search on coronitis. If not and the rest of the horse, particularly the coat, is in good condition consider local factors like excessive moisture. I don't think trimming can cause rough, irregular horn to form at the coronet.
DrO
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Member:
Dommay
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Posted on Friday, Jun 27, 2003 - 9:01 am:
Hi Dr. O and thanks!
When looking at the cornet area, he looks normal. He is now shedding a very heavy coat still. I did notice on the back of the foot on the soft tissue just above the hoof--2 red marks similar to slight bruises. I will definately try to get a photo this weekend and send to you.
He does not seem lame.
Sorry if I made the trimming sound like the culprit. The farrier stated the incorrect prior trimming is what probably caused the hoof to grow lopsided. it was not done perfectly square.
Thank you!
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Member:
Pones
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Posted on Monday, Jun 30, 2003 - 6:42 am:
At last - managed to get the photos Dominique!
The first picture is her off fore hoof on the ground: -
I got her to put her near fore on my knee so that you can see it better!:-
Hope these come out OK and you can see her growth rings - her hooves grown a lot recently as we've had a grass glut. On the second one you can see that the horn is 'rougher' and 'tighter'.
Heidi
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Jun 30, 2003 - 9:17 am:
Excellent photos Heidi but I disagree with your appraisal that this is always normal. Adjacent to the coronet is not normal, the distal horn where you can see the distinct striations is normal. The question I cannot answer from the photo is if this is just roughened up periople, perhaps from too much wetting, or if the horn is actually lost its norml architecture. If it is just the periople it will wear away to normal horn underneath, but if the roughness extends into the horn this is a problem.
I see bands of horn like this form due to superficial fungal and or bacterial infections of the coronet. Often this is secondary to prolonged excessive moisture and self limiting though I have had some that progressed to hairloss, erosions (small sores), swelling and pain. Usually the mild self limiting forms effect all the feet and the serious sequelae limited to one or two feet.
The hair covering your coronet prevents us from looking at the skin but it looks normal, review your management and nutrition. If the skin looks irritated, a widespectrum antibiotic (both bacteria and funguses) like panalog might be in order.
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Member:
Pones
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Posted on Monday, Jun 30, 2003 - 10:03 am:
Hi Dr O. I am not worried about my yearling's growth rings as they correspond to the time that she was shipped to myself - she came from Denmark to the UK (a journey of 36 hours). This represents a stressful time and a huge change in both environment and feeding regime for her.
She is now kept in at night and out during the day (6am-10pm), and is fed a good quality growing ration, with good pasture during the day, and haylage at night. I liaise closely with a friend who is a nutritionist for a feed company here in the UK, so there isn't likely to be a nutrition problem!
If we have prolonged rain when the horses are turned out, then they are brought in. I am meticulous regarding clean and dry feet when the horses are in. Obviously when the horses are out their hooves are bound to get wet in grass, and then dry out. This is the state of her hooves on one such day! The periople has sloughed off towards the upper 3rd of her hoof. She has no problems with her coat, or has she ever had any problems with her feet in the 5 months I have owned her.
I only posted the photos so that Dominique could see them.
From your subsequent posts, Dominique, it sounds that your little man has been through a lot too - only by showing us photos of his hooves will we get a clear idea of what you are describing - at least you know the sort of growth bands I imagined you were describing now!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 1, 2003 - 9:36 am:
We may be talking about two different places on the hoof. Those are not growth rings next to the coronet Heidi, reread my post above. But there are several small growth rings half way down the wall, is this what you are referring to? I also would not worry about those but the wall adjacent to the coronet is a bit worrysome.
DrO
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Member:
Dommay
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 1, 2003 - 10:21 am:
Hi all,
I got photos and noticed the cornet area brittle and a small sore on my 11yo. The yearling is now showing the brittleness too. Doc according to your post above, should these horses be on panalog? and what is causing this to happen. I also see that my 11yo is starting to get the abnormal feeling at the top of his hooves too!
Romeo-my yearling has been on low potassium diet of 3 cups purepride 100 + 1 cup sweet for his pills {Omelene 100} and 1 cup athlete to give him his protein. He gets a flake of mixed grass hay at night. Good pasture for both see pics.
Cash was a ranch pasture horse and not sure of his old feeding schedule. He now gets 1 cup sweet 10%, 4 cups Buckeye endurance 14%Protein, 10% fat..we needed to fatten him up. He was about 150# underweight. 1-2 flakes mixed grass in evening.
Both get Strongid daily in a.m.
Any advice anyone can give to fix these guys would really be appreciated. I have never had to deal with this in the past.
Thanks!     
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Member:
Dommay
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 1, 2003 - 10:25 am:
in case they didn't all come through
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 2, 2003 - 4:49 am:
From here I cannot know what is the cause. In general, you don't treat the odd looking horn other than to be sure the nutrition and environment is good. It may be as simple as making sure the feet stay dryer or waiting until dryer times.
You do treat any dermatitis of the coronet (the skin). The chestnut appears more to be a wound than infection but that might best be decided by someone who can examine all of the feet. The horse with the white feet and pasterns does appear to have some swelling in the coronet that makes the hair stick out oddly. The proper treatment depends on the actual cause of the dermatitis but Panalog gets most causes (staph, staph allergic dermatitis, dermatophillus, strep) of such problems.
Concering nutrition, anyone horse who gets free access to pasture for signficant parts of the day is not on a low potassium diet. Mixing concentrates like you are doing above is great fun but really makes no sense: find a single one of the proper protein range and stay with it. Any of the three you mention would be fine since the grass is good.
DrO
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Member:
Dommay
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 2, 2003 - 9:40 am:
Hi Doc and thanks for your response!
My Vet is coming out on Monday and he will do a thorough check on both Romeo {16 months,white socks}; and Cash 11 yo Qh. My farrier is also coming every 2 weeks to trim Romeo to make sure we stay on top of his hooves. He is growing like wildfire!
Regarding the mixing regimen, I was instructed by Purina Rep to use this mixture to keep enough protein and low potassium through his growing years.
Granted the pasture is high in potassium due to the grass mixture, but I am by no means an expert on how to keep Romeo w/in good levels out there. So I figured at least start with the food. His last owner {dealer w/no concern} had him on everything wrong. First owner {QH Judge} had him inside 24/7 double blanketed and Oats with straight alphalpha. Yes he was a halter weanling and looked absolutely phenomenal.
If you can provide additional advice on his feeding and pasture time, that would be wonderful.
Is this something where he should be muzzled each day to reduce the intake? Or left in pasture with elimination of the Athlete topical feed. The only reason Romeo gets the sweet feed is because it binds the pills up for easy eating. I want to make sure he gets all of his dose.
After rechecking Cash yesterday with my neighbors {experienced horse folk} seems it is only a cut as there is no puss, no warmth, no swelling. I sprayed it down with Micro Tek anti fungal.
Thanks so much and any help on Romeo's feed regimen is greatly appreciated.
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Member:
Htrails
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 2, 2003 - 10:05 am:
Micro Tek is good stuff! What I would be wondering is why the hoof appears to be steeper and smaller growing in compared to the lower wall from about 5 months back. Change in trimming, lifestyle, terrain? Looks a bit swollen to me as well and appears to be toe weighted.
R
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Member:
Dommay
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 2, 2003 - 10:53 am:
Hi there,
Love Micro Tek.
Yes this yearling had a major change in lifestyle and conditions plus diet and meds. He was actually so stiff the 3rd day after I had him, the vet didn't even try to pick up a foot.
The hoof grows super fast on this guy thus the every 2 week trimming to try to maintain correctly. the pics above are mainly of rear feet, only one of front foot. I constantly stress the toe to my farrier.
The neighbors have also seen some coronet issues due to the weather lately.
Any other comments are greatly appreciated!
Thanks!
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Member:
Pones
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Posted on Thursday, Jul 3, 2003 - 6:13 am:
Hi Dominique
How about taking a pasture sample and getting your grass analysed? You could ask for a specific potassium test. I know it's not ideal, as you wont know how much Romeo eats every day, but at least you will have a background level with which to work. I don't know what the procedure is for this in the States, but the feed companies here in the UK will take samples in for analysis.
As with all things hoof related, the changes you make now will take time to be seen. Once made, the keratin hoof matrix cannot be altered - obviously weak horn may be broken more easily, and horn with cracks etc, will be susceptible to infection etc.
You remark you've been seeing changes due to the weather - has it been unduly wet/dry lately?
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Member:
Pones
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Posted on Thursday, Jul 3, 2003 - 7:02 am:
Hi Dr O
I've marked up my photo to clarify which parts I am talking about - there may be some ambiguity in terminology use going on.
My horse's horn is tight and smooth from the coronary band to the bearing edge, with a major 'growth ring' about halfway down the hoof wall (marked in red). This growth ring corresponds to the end of January when I bought her.
The 'rough' area immediately underneath her coronary band is her periople - outlined in blue. This appears smooth when it is wet. There is no abnormal hoof matrix, or rough outer hoof wall.
Hope this clarifies the photo.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Jul 4, 2003 - 10:21 am:
We agree on the ring and I will have to take your word for the upper part appearing normal at your end but your verbal description does not match your photo: the blue area you outline is not immediately below the coronet band, the area above it is. It could be just dry periople covering over the normal striations and extending a little further down than normal but I cannot tell that from here.
DrO
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Member:
Pones
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 5, 2003 - 7:47 pm:
Hi Dominique
I've just come across the following advice on the UC Davis website, regarding feeding etc. of HYPP horses:
For control of episodes:
Regular feeding and exercise schedule. Avoid fasting or water deprivation. These horses do better if allowed access to a paddock or pasture rather than strict stall confinement. Daily or nightly turnout is helpful.
Mix alfalfa with grass hay or oat hay and grain (oats best) to decrease potassium content of diet. Many owners report that their horses do very well on grass hay alone or pasture. Feed equal amounts of hay and grain two to three times daily. Avoid rapid changes in diet.
Acetazolamide (Diamox) - a diuretic - (2 mg/kg orally twice a day). Many halter-horse owners continue to feed alfalfa hay as the only roughage but maintain their horses on this drug for all or most of their life. This drug is a forbidden substance as ruled by the AQHA and AHSA
It has come to my attention that acetazolamide is not always available from human pharmacies.
Another drug which has been used is hyDrOchlorthiazide at a dosage of 0.5 mg/kg twice a day by mouth.
Inform your veterinarian of condition prior to any general anesthesia as this may precipitate an episode of paralysis. If your horse is receiving medication, maintain them on therapy before and after surgery or anesthesia.
Use common sense while hauling, be sure to stop and water the horses frequently (every 2 hours).
Hope this helps - more information available at:
https://www.vgl.ucdavis.edu/lvmillon/hypp/treatment.html
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Member:
Dommay
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 8, 2003 - 10:52 am:
Hi Heidi,
Thanks for your update and I did gather this information.
My vet was out yesterday, Cash got his west niles booster and all was good with him.
Yes weather has been super rainy/flooding, then super hot 94-98 degrees.
Vet checked all hooves
*no coronitis and hooves {coronet area} are reflectant of our extreme weather conditions.
*no lameness or soreness
*he was surprised to see Romeo's hooves and stated that the line where this all started was when I brought him home and when he got his first vet check and placed on acetazolomide. there is no swelling of any foot above the hoof! the hoof is growing smaller and more upright-we are aware of this. he was perplexed at the uneven rings on the hoof. Romeo is very flexible {not tense} and has no hypp issues since back in March.
There is a new ring appearing, but we need to wait and see how this will grow out. He stated it will grow out, but we need to wait.
We are staying on top of trimming every 2 weeks.
One thing my vet mentioned was the possibility of Romeo growing too fast and I suggested what Doc stated above. Too much protein {mixing of feeds} and remove the Athlete from diet, especially since Romeo is on free pasture. Vet said it is fine to leave him on our pasture and remove the athlete, especially during the summer months. He does not want him growing too quickly and then run into joint issues. Romeo is a very large bodied and heavily muscled. He was bred as a halter horse and will tend to have small hooves for his body size. We are trying to keep an eye on all of this as he grows and do our best keeping him in the right atmosphere and care.
I would not have learned this additional information if not for this site. Thanks so much to everyone and I will keep everyone posted to how the hoof growth goes.
Thanks!
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Member:
Pones
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 13, 2003 - 4:08 pm:
Hi Dominique
Glad to know that you've had Romeo checked out and everything is OK. Like all things hoof - time will tell when the lines grow out.
All the best,
Heidi
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