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Discussion on Periosteal stripping
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Member:
Jerre
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 21, 2003 - 10:44 am:
My vet has suggested considering PT for my 11 week old filly who is toed out from the knee down, especially on the right. He saw her in the dark while treating a colic by the light of his truck lights (another story) so we didn't have time for a full consultation.
My questions are:
What is the success rate for PT? Her deformity is not great -- she stands almost straight, but it is more noticeable when she moves.
What is the after care time and protocol? She is a very active filly on 24-hour turnout since birth. I have a 40x40 paddock option and could convert the loafing shed to a 12x16 stall. She is not weaned.
Does the fact that she had this surgery preclude her as a breeding prospect?
What complications are likely?
Thanks, as always,
Jerre
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Member:
Jerre
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Posted on Monday, Jun 23, 2003 - 11:53 am:
And an update, since the above post, three breeders and/or trainers had a look at her. The two dressage-oriented breeders thought she has very high performance potential and suggested the surgery, even though they were hesitant before they saw her. Their reason is that she is otherwise a very high-quality filly. (I have no idea what to look for, and her breeding was not only an accident, her birth was a surprise. I can take no credit for the result!)
The QH breeder said she'd leave the leg, since in her discipline it doesn't matter.
The deviation is evident in the flight of the leg, but very slight when standing up. If I keep her, I will likely use her for dressage and trails, and maybe low-level eventing. If I sell her, well, who knows?
The filly is 1/2 Arab, 1/4 TB, 1/4 Percheron.
DrO, did you miss my earlier questions? The vet had suggested periosteal stripping.
Thanks,
Jerre
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 24, 2003 - 6:26 pm:
I a sorry Jerre,
We are doing a bit of computer work around here and you were misplaced in the shuffle. The sucess rate for PT is good in properly selected cases and yes I would be hesitant to breed a horse with angulation severe enough to warrant this surgery. It is not clear from your post that this is the case however.
DrO
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Member:
Jerre
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 24, 2003 - 11:49 pm:
Thanks DrO,
I'm having my vet out for an evaluation in about 10 days, so I can do this in the appropriate time frame, if that's what we decide.
Meanwhile, I'll try to get some pix this weekend and post them here.
I still have questions:
What is the protocal for recovery?
And, has anyone else out there been through this? My vet, who is very sound medically and well-respected, but inclined to go to a medical solution (rather than an alternative one) makes it sound somewhat common and care free. I'm very interested in anyone else's experience and advice.
Thanks, Jerre
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 25, 2003 - 6:55 am:
There really are no special protocols, once completely recovered from the anesthesia and surgery, they are turned back out to a paddock or pasture with light vetwrap bandages to keep swelling from the surgery down (1 to 2 weeks usually).
DrO
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 26, 2003 - 7:19 am:
I received this in my email and thought it might have significance here:
From "Fiona Farrell"
Subject: Periosteal stripping
At 06:56 AM 6/25/2003 -0400, you wrote:
I have not but have seen very many foals on KY TB breeding farms turned out with their dams with colorful lightweight casts on their legs. You might want to contact a large farm to find out what the standard recovery protocol is.
Good luck.
Fiona,
Vetwrap is not a cast but a light weight compressive bandage material, that also comes in muted and dark colors.
This is a protocol we have used for the PT's we have done ourselves and also conforms with the recommendations in White and Moore's Current Surgical Techniques. I would prefer if you have questions about the recommendations that you post them on the site so we can discuss them to everyones benefit.
DrO
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Member:
Jerre
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 29, 2003 - 2:55 pm:
DrO, and anyone with experience with baby legs:
Here are a couple of pix. I chose the ones that show the most deviation. I think she's getting straighter with trimming, and have an evaluation by my vet for next week. Any feedback is much appreciated as to whether a periosteal stripping is called for. Thanks so much! I have zero experience in this area! She shows more crookedness while moving and goofing off -- the right especially will splay, but she can stand up pretty straight.
Jerre
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Jun 30, 2003 - 7:16 am:
No amount of foot trimming will improve the angular deviation in the knee: the improvment is a natural phenomenea, and trimming should be aimed at keeping the foot in good normal balance. It certainly is a borderline case and if you feel this is improving I would be slow to do the surgery. I have seen worse deviations get 100% better without surgery and I have seen less deviation not improve without it.
I would get a good set of radiographs taken designed to quantify the angulation and then if you are unsure a month later you can document the change.
DrO
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Member:
Jerre
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Posted on Monday, Jun 30, 2003 - 12:47 pm:
Thanks DrO,
We'll do a careful evaluation when the vet comes next Monday. I'll update you after that.
This filly has continually improved in straightness since birth -- she's exceptionally long-legged.
As she is just now 3 months, I understand that the optimum window for PT is closing.
Jerre
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Member:
Jerre
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 12, 2003 - 10:26 am:
Well, Vet No. 2, after careful evaluation, recommends PT. She comes from a Kentucky TB background and is very familiar with the procedure -- at one farm they used to do as many as 15 a day! (She allows that in that scenario the foals were too valuable to let nature have its chance).
Anyway, the primary vet at the clinic where the surgery will be done says 1 month of stall confinement with 2x/day 15 minutes handwalking. From what I've seen elsewhere, that's on more confinement than some other recommendations.
I don't want to undo the benefits of surgery, but is an entire month conservatiive? I have a 40x40 paddock available for mare and foal.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 12, 2003 - 11:01 pm:
The post on June 25th is both the procedure we use and the one recommended in standard equine surgery texts that I have. I would be interested in their reasoning or even better a reference for this type regimen.
There was a report last year that compared the end results of "stall rest alone" to "PT and stall rest" in foals with surgically induced deviations. Both groups received frequent trimming to keep their feet balanced. They found that stall rest alone was just as beneficial. However I wonder about the fact that these were normal foals, with normal growth responses, before the deviation was induced artifically.
Using this report they may be trying to optimize the chance of correction. But this is one of the reasons I do the surgery, to keep from having to stall rest deviations. The only foals we keep in are those who's angle of deviation is so great that exercise on it might stress the joint, certainly not your case.
DrO
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Member:
Jerre
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 13, 2003 - 12:42 am:
Thanks DrO. And thanks for answering late on a Saturday night. My vet is well regarded as the best diagnostician and technician in the area, but he does tend to recommend more intervention and more conservative rehab than the other vets around. I'll see if I can get an opinion from him on his protocol, (but I'll probably give her much more turnout than he suggests -- don't tell on me!)
Have a great vacation,
Jerre
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Member:
jerre
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Posted on Friday, Mar 7, 2008 - 3:19 pm:
Here is a follow up at age 5. The left leg straightened more than the right, which still has a turn, but the turn is consistent through the leg. She has very nice movement.
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Friday, Mar 7, 2008 - 5:01 pm:
So, did you do the surgery or not??
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Member:
jerre
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Posted on Friday, Mar 7, 2008 - 9:31 pm:
Oops, sorry. Yes. Both legs at age 4 months.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 8, 2008 - 9:32 am:
Thanks for the update Jerre, with the forearm turned out and in line with the cannon, this is the best you can achieve and very functional for a trail horse in my experience.
DrO
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Member:
jerre
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Posted on Saturday, Mar 8, 2008 - 12:06 pm:
I guess I should bring this full circle. We did the surgery on both legs at the end of the effective window -- 4 months. The cost, if I remember, was about $1200 with all the associated expenses and follow up.
I did keep her somewhat confined, but in a 40x40 paddock and recovery was unremarkable.
The WORST was loading her to get to the vet. The mare loads well, but I didn't have a trailer at the time, so the filly had never been in. After a very sweaty afternoon that ended with three frustrated and exhausted women and one very pissed off filly, I had the vet tech come out and tranquilizer her.
(As another followup -- trailer loading is just fine now!)
And, I can't believe it's been five years. I can't count the times this site has been helpful in that time, even if it's not about something I am experiencing at the time.
Thanks to DrO and everyone who makes this such a warm and helpful place.
Jerre
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