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  Discussion on Hydrating an elderly animal
Author Message
Member:
pbarlow

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 11, 2007 - 1:12 pm:

I have a very elderly small donkey gelding, who recently started loosing a lot of weight. He quit eating and drinking yesterday and I expected him to die overnight but he is still with us. So I decided to try to get some water down him with a stomach tube. I gave him a quart of water with 2tbls sugar and 1tsp salt. I want to give him more every half hour until he gets some of his hydration back (or dies). He doesn't seem to mind the tubing. Any suggestions?
Member:
mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 11, 2007 - 2:15 pm:

How elderly is he? There are a lot of reasons he might have quit eating and drinking other than age. Have you had him checked by a vet? How are his teeth? Does he have a fever? Any other symptoms? You're a lot more brave than I am if you're doing your own tubing! I'd be terrified. A lot of harm can be done if it's done wrong.
Member:
pbarlow

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 11, 2007 - 4:04 pm:

He might be about 30. No fever. Doesn't look uncomfortable. Vet trip charge is too pricey to justify for him... not to mention examination or treatment, when the best I could get out of it is a healthier 30 year old donkey. His urine was normal yesterday, have not found where he defecated but he is in a very large area.

He is now on his 3rd quart of water and is looking much better than he did. He was trembling and that has stopped. He has been walking around.

My best friend is a surgical nurse and we are tubing with great caution to avoid the lungs. We were lucky to find a very soft rubber tube. Zekey doesn't seem to mind it at all.

I live an hour away from the nearest vet, so I don't want to even consider calling him for this old man.

Here is a webpage I wrote about him last year:
https://www.dinetahtrails.com/Equines/zekey/

Patricia
Member:
pbarlow

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 11, 2007 - 5:19 pm:

Now he has finished off a gallon and asked to be let back into the paddock with the other animals. Will he start eating????
Member:
savage

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 11, 2007 - 6:20 pm:

Patricia, is that a tumor on his neck? he sure is handsome.
Member:
pbarlow

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 11, 2007 - 6:38 pm:

That is a fat pad on his neck. If donkeys are ever obese in their lives, they get it and you can't get rid of it. He got it sometime before he was 15 or so. I think he came from the BLM because there is a mark that looks like a BLM brand on his neck.

He is definitely feeling better with the hydration. We have stopped at a gallon until this evening. We would really like to get something more nourishing in him. Donna wants to put bran mash gruel into his stomach. I would like some advice on this.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 11, 2007 - 6:43 pm:

Hello Patricia,
You may be dealing with hepatolipidosis, a common problem in small burros and minis that go off feed then develop complications.

For a recipe on oral electrolyte solutions see, Horse Care » Equine Nutrition, Horse Feeds, Feeding » Electrolytes and Dehydration in Exercising Horses. To this solution you can add glucose at the rate suggested in Diseases of Horses » Colic, Diarrhea, GI Tract » Mouth, Esophagus, and Liver » Fatty Liver Disease and Hyperlipidosis. Note you should not be using table sugar (sucrose) but corn syrup (glucose) as this is better digested and absorbed. I would add two crushed adult human vitamins to the solution daily. You can give 2 qts at a time in my opinion but if there are no bowel sounds it may back up in the stomach.
DrO
Member:
pbarlow

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 11, 2007 - 8:43 pm:

I just finished checking to see if he had an impaction. A few fairly dry feces, but nothing substantial that I could feel. His bowel lining was much softer than I imagined and I was afraid of creating a deadend by fishing around.

He stood at liberty while I did this, then he stomped off when it was done.

We will make up the vitamin glucose solution right away. I have kayo syrup. Will check the recipes now.

Thanks so much for your help.
Member:
pbarlow

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 11, 2007 - 8:48 pm:

I just read the description of the disease and it sounds just like it. First we noticed that his hump had decreased in size (last week).

Since it has been several days.... well...
Member:
pbarlow

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 11, 2007 - 8:58 pm:

Actually what doesn't sound like it is the diarrhea.

Since we are working with what we have here (no salt substitute), we will do salt 1tsp per gallon, 2 ground vitamins and a half cup of corn syrup.

If this is what he has, will it be a painful death? Should we consider euthanasia?

Yours,
Patricia
Member:
freshman

Posted on Thursday, Apr 12, 2007 - 3:15 am:

Please consider euthanizing the donkey if he becomes painful or continues to require water/supplementation via the tube. If he does not feel well enough to eat and drink, I don't feel that it is worthwhile to continue invasively treating him.

The cumulative effects of repeated intubation should also be considered; every passage is traumatic to the sensitive mucosa that lines the nose/throat. This can be counter-productive, as the pain associated with swallowing, etc, make the horse unwilling to begin drinking or eating on his own.

I'm not clear on how you performed the rectal palpation, but please know that horses tear very easily. Carefully examine your arm for any sign of blood when you are done. Since whatever is revealed via rectal exam will not make a practical difference in how you have decided to treat the animal, I do not see how any further rectal examination would be in his best interest.

I appreciate your desire to give this old one a chance, but please take care to prevent the treatment efforts from causing him more misery in the end. I recommend that the donkey be examined by a veterinarian if further treatment is necessary. If this is not possible, please consider euthanizing him in a humane manner.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Apr 12, 2007 - 7:07 am:

Patricia you will need to make the judgement on whether the donkey is painful or suffering. The metabolic disorders from liver failure are not painful but colic may be a symptom of the physical changes. You should consider euthanasia if the prognosis is poor and the little fellow not improving, remember the idea is to prevent unnecessary suffering.
DrO
Member:
pbarlow

Posted on Thursday, Apr 12, 2007 - 8:57 am:

Kristin - I certainly appreciate what you had to say but there is no way to know what the prognosis is until you have eliminated other possibilities. After we had given him water, he almost seemed like he might start grazing. Since we hadn't seem him defecate or found any thing we could attribute to him, checking for an impaction seemed prudent.

There is no way we are going to do something that is going to be painful to this old fellow. The tube we gave him water in was not plastic but thin walled soft rubber. We didn't get to any kind of arm depth on the rectal exam.

You can recommend calling the vet, but you don't understand the situation. That is not going to happen. I have no available disposable income to spend on him. I need to conserve my resources in case my other equids should require veterinary attention.

I don't really like the option of shooting him as it is traumatic and messy and not always entirely pain free. Since he shows no signs of colic or other pain, our best option might be to just wait. I suppose he will die faster if we don't give him water.

Thanks to everyone for caring about him and helping me with this. I will let you know when he goes.
Member:
erika

Posted on Thursday, Apr 12, 2007 - 9:14 am:

Sweet little old man! Sounds like you are doing the best you can for him Patricia.

I hope he recovers and can go peacefully one day.
Member:
twhgait

Posted on Thursday, Apr 12, 2007 - 9:50 am:

Patricia, you are obviously doing what you can! He's lucky to have an owner with his best interests at heart.

Edited to add: What a cute donkey! Love the webpage!
Member:
mrose

Posted on Thursday, Apr 12, 2007 - 10:38 am:

Dying of thirst is very unpleasant. I trust you won't do this.

Doesn't your vet take payments or credit cards? I realize you are doing what you can at home and that you care for him, but imo he really should be seen by a vet. If it is time to have him put down, the vets I know will do this for you at a discounted rate if they feel your empty pockets are a problem. As a mother that raised two boys on my own for many years, I can sympathize with the lack of funds and having to count your pennies, but after all, this is a life you are dealing with, not a car. Sorry if I offend, but I have strong feelings, as you can tell.
Member:
sunny66

Posted on Thursday, Apr 12, 2007 - 11:18 am:

Ditto Sara.
Member:
mcbizz

Posted on Thursday, Apr 12, 2007 - 11:53 am:

My emotions are very raw on this so bear with me.
I lost my beloved Mustang, McMurphy, to an impaction and rupture in the small intestine on Saturday. I have never seen such agony. We called our vet immediately when I found him down early in the morning. He did a thorough rectal exploratory, all was clear. He tubed him and flushed out his stomach. All this was done while the horse was lying down, very sedated. We finally got him up, into the trailer. Took him to the vet clinic, 45 minutes away, where our vet did a belly tap and found him full of blood. Surgery was not an option at that point, but we were ready to mortgage the house. I understand where with an animal as old as your donkey you wouldn't consider that an option, but for God's sake help this poor animal die in peace.
I did not even want to post the death of my horse on this site, I am so upset, but we take on the responsibility of these animals and must help them when they need us most. Please, Patricia, do the right thing. End his life peacefully, that is the definition of euthanasia.
Member:
canyon28

Posted on Thursday, Apr 12, 2007 - 12:13 pm:

I agree with Carolyn, this little donkey was entrusted to your care and you could at least allow him the dignity of dying humanely by having a vet euthanise him. A friend of mine that runs her own ranch doesnt have much money either, but the local vets have come out on several occasions for her and waived the call out fee, plus most of the vet fees. You never know until you ask.
Being a stoic little animal, you dont have any idea how much pain this little fellow may be in right now. Do the right thing and have the vet out asap to euthanise him.
People that have horses(or any animal) shouldnt have them if they dont have the money, time, and compassion to care for them properly. I would suggest you think about selling one of your other horses if you feel that a vet bill is too much for you. Reduce the number of animals you have so that all can receive proper medical care when needed. It is also possible that your local humane society might be able to euthanise him for you or get you a reduced fee from a vet.
I am not trying to sound mean by what I have said, but its a fact that many times people take on more animals than they can afford or have time for, and it gets the best of them.
Member:
pbarlow

Posted on Thursday, Apr 12, 2007 - 12:21 pm:

Thank you for your opinions. Zekey is not in pain. If he is in pain, I will make some changes. He is resting comfortably and quietly in a straw covered stall and is covered with a packing blanket. There is no need to project some degree of agony on this animal.

The way they put animals down around here is shoot them in the head. We live in different worlds perhaps, but you can either be judgemental or not, it's up to you. If you want to send me the money for the vet to come give him a shot, hey, send it. There is a paypal donation button on my website www.largocanyon.com I will refund your money if he dies before the vet gets here.

I have a call into the vet right now waiting to see what he would charge me.
Member:
pbarlow

Posted on Thursday, Apr 12, 2007 - 12:37 pm:

Zekey was given to me two years ago to spend his final days here. I could have refused to take him in, would that have been better? I have a yard full of rescue animals. They are fed, they are loved, they are trained, and when the time comes, they die.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Thursday, Apr 12, 2007 - 1:03 pm:

Patricia, I went to your website. You have undertaken a very interesting venture (adventure?) and are in a wonderful area. I'm not questioning your concern for Zekey; just the method, and I understand I'm not there, can't see him or hear him and it's not my decission to make anyway. If he is not in pain and can die peacefully, then I wouldn't argue with that. My personal experience has been pretty bleak when it comes to animals dying peacefully, though I'm sure it's possible for one to just go to sleep and not wake up. Usually, even if old, they have deseases like cancer which become quite painful, so I wind up having them euthanized. I can not stand to see them suffer. We did have one old dog that died peacefully, that is all.

I appreciate the fact you have called the vet. I can see that you are miles from anyone and his farm call charges will probably be pretty steep. What area would he come from? Four Corners? I hope you will keep us posted and let us know if there are any changes in Zekey. I hope he is able to die in peace and with some dignity.
Member:
twhgait

Posted on Thursday, Apr 12, 2007 - 2:08 pm:

I think Patricia doesn't want to turn this into a debate, and it shouldn't be. I just wanted to add that we all walk in our own shoes everyday, with our own ideas of right and wrong....I DON'T think she is doing anything inhumane. A bullet is another way to euthanize, and if done correctly, can be just as painless and fast as drugs. It's not the method I would use, but that doesn't make it wrong.

I also had to recently deal with a painful horse who was suffering a twist/rupture. I did everything for him that I could, including several visits, meds, and finally euthanasia by my vet, but surgery was never an option. I have a house, children, a husband and other horses and pets that would of had to suffer for that decision. As much as I love my horses, I can't afford to not be reasonable with the money spent on them. They will get anything I can afford to give them, as long as it doesn't effect my ability to pay my mortgage and cloth and feed my children. Bad things happen...and they happen when we have NO extra money....does that mean anybody in that situation shouldn't have any animals? I don't think so.

Sorry for my soapbox, but I feel like Patricia is being scrutinized simply because her ideas of euthanizing this donkey don't match ours. Not all of us have vets that will work with us financially or have tons of money to spend on our equine friends. That doesn't make us less worthy of owning them.
Member:
pbarlow

Posted on Thursday, Apr 12, 2007 - 2:10 pm:

Sara,
Thanks for your consideration of all the factors. We just came in from giving him a little warmed glucose water with willow bark infusion. He is all blanketed again and has chosen to lay down again. This wet spring day is not working in our interest.

The vet would either come from Bloomfield or Chama (the Chama vet is much cheaper). I have to conserve my funds for the annual round of vaccinations.... last year I had to pay $650 but I am hoping that the Chama vet will do it for less (he charges $100 less for spaying dogs). So now I have two calls in. I will need to go ahead and have them vaccinated if I pay the trip charges for the euthanasia. Of course if it keeps raining, the vet will not be able to get here anyway.

Well the wet spring day is keeping me inside instead of letting me get my projects done.... such is life.

Thanks again,
Patricia
Member:
pbarlow

Posted on Thursday, Apr 12, 2007 - 2:27 pm:

I don't mind it being a debate as to what you would do or what you think is right. It just doesn't work to tell me what I should do (but I am very good at ignoring people anyway).

It's an emotional issue. Nothing will change that. It's okay to speak your truth. This is sad, but I have expected it for a long time and wondered how it would play out. The reality of animal ownership is that we outlive them.

I have some very expensive FREE animals....I have close to $1000 each in my older mutts. The little one has only been about $300. I have noticed that the price of veterinary services has skyrocketed in the past few years. And whose idea was it to make it so you can't vaccinate against west nile yourself anyway???
Member:
sonoita

Posted on Thursday, Apr 12, 2007 - 3:35 pm:

If we have animals we are their protector's and we should make life as easy as can be no matter the what. I wonder iF he had a gun would he do the deed?
It is an emotional situation especially if the animal is suffering. I agree with some of the others. It is not humane to waste away either.
Member:
karent

Posted on Thursday, Apr 12, 2007 - 6:05 pm:

Patricia,

You can vaccinate against WNV yourself. I also live in New Mexico and have vaccinated my horses for WNV for the past 3-4 years. You can buy it on-line in 10 dose vials or buy them in single doses at a tack store that sells vaccines.
Member:
pbarlow

Posted on Thursday, Apr 12, 2007 - 7:03 pm:

Dear Karen,
Where do you order them online???? I would definitely buy 10. It seemed that I could save about $300 if I buy online.

Latest Zekey report as of 4:50 he is standing in the front yard off away from the herd looking quite normal in an elderly donkey sort of way. We went out to see if we wanted to give him more herb/vitamin/glucose juice and he was a bit resistant to the tube so we didn't push it. Then I tipped his head up and drenched him with 8 oz or so. He didn't like that but he didn't walk away. He did stamp his feet at the dog, then defecated a solid lump. If I could figure out how to drench him effectively, I wouldn't need to think about the tube. He doesn't like getting the juice but he really perks up after he gets it. If we don't give him the juice then his hump will just keep dissolving and poisoning his liver. I am sure that his hump is the only thing keeping him alive right now. No wonder these critters with hepatilipidosis don't survive... they just get caught in the quandry. Then again he doesn't show any signs of jaundice or diarrhea.

Yrs,
Patricia
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Apr 12, 2007 - 9:31 pm:

Patricia, concerning the euthanasia question a bullet can be at least as humane as injection and when done correctly perhaps even more so. The overdose of barbiturate often causes a moment of excitement prior to the loss of consciousness. On the other hand a properly placed bullet results in instantaneous unconsciousness. Of course an improperly placed bullet is a horrible site.

The proper way to do this is a subject we have discussed before and if you run a search on euthanasia and bullet....the discussion is Treatments and Medications for Horses » Sedatives & Anesthetics » Discussions on Sedatives and Anesthetics not covered above » Discussion on Midazolam and Morphine.
DrO
Member:
juliem

Posted on Thursday, Apr 12, 2007 - 10:08 pm:

Patricia, please don't feel you are being judged or criticized as being inhumane. Every one has their own situation, and everyone here is an animal lover, compassionate, concerned and responsible--this includes you. Why would anyone post on this site otherwise? You are doing your best in the situation you find yourself in. Sometimes it seems the day we take the animal on is the day we begin saying goodbye as you note--most won't outlive us. What you hear from members is the heartfelt concern we all share for animals that suffer and the people who care for them.
As an aside, I once asked my vet how I would put a horse down if we had a life ending accident in the mountains or backcountry. He gave me a syringe full of sedative, said it would give me about 30 minutes. Then, take a good pocket knife, hold it in my fist, reach into the rectum and make a sweeping cut arching through the rectum wall toward the spine. The horse would bleed out and die relatively quickly. That was probably the last time I went into the backcountry!! Dr. O, would this actually be a humane way to end suffering? Sure would be hard to do!!
Anyway, Patricia, bless you for caring and not getting defensive about the concerns expressed. Julie}
Member:
mrose

Posted on Thursday, Apr 12, 2007 - 11:12 pm:

I think a well placed bullet would be easier and quicker for all concerned - "well placed" being the key phrase. I can't imagine the pocket knife scene. I know a lot of backcountry riders that carry a gun "just in case."
Member:
karent

Posted on Friday, Apr 13, 2007 - 9:58 am:

Patricia,

You can buy them alot of places, depends on if you want Fort Dodge or other manufacturers of the WNV. Here is a website that has decent pricing for the vaccines. They also have free shipping. The 10 dose vial costs between 136.00 to 149.00 per vial. Here is the link. https://horsevaccines4less.com/ If you prefer to look at more sites just google WNV vaccine for sale.
Member:
pbarlow

Posted on Friday, Apr 13, 2007 - 11:12 am:

I got this email this morning:
LL <equestrianlv@yahoo.com>
to patriciabarlow.

show details
7:51 am (1 hour ago)
I am not a member of the Horse advisor but read your post in absolute horror! If you were anywhere near where I live I would call the SPCA so fast it would make your head spin! You are not rescueing these animals, you are only consributing to their suffering! I hope when your time comes to leave this earth that you will have a far kinder and humane individual treating you. Shame Shame Shame on you! You are not fit to look after any animal.
===============================
I guess she wasn't brave enough to post this on the forum. Can't really tell what she objected to, but she didn't donate towards the euthanasia fund either. The donate button is here: https://www.largocanyon.com/blog/

Zekey is still walking around this morning. Looks like he spent the night in his stall then went wandering in the pasture between rainstorms.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Friday, Apr 13, 2007 - 11:37 am:

Patricia, I am terribly sorry someone would send such an email to you! This email shows a total lack of understanding as to what is really going on and a very closed mind. I don't believe the writer ready Dr. O's post re: the pain factor of Zekey's condition, nor is educated re: "the bullet" method of euthanasia, as wel as some other things. On your website the horses and animals pictured looked well cared for btw.
Member:
zarr

Posted on Friday, Apr 13, 2007 - 12:08 pm:

Patricia, I have the same farrier as a lady who lives not far from me but is on a main road.She has 3 horses a round morgan a stout palomino and a thin (you can count his ribs) thoroughbred. She has gotten 3 nasty letters accusing her of starving the thin one. She is working like mad to keep weight on him but the public doesn't see that now she is afraid she'll lose her horses! My farrier said she was very upset so I suggested that she put up a BIG sign "come watch the horses feed" and give the times!Bottom line you seem to be doing the very best you can ,the uninformed will just have stay that way. Cindy
Member:
karent

Posted on Friday, Apr 13, 2007 - 12:28 pm:

I know what you mean Cindy. A boss of mine had a mare that was 35 years old. She started losing weight and the Vet couldn't find anything wrong with her. She wasn't in pain, she did eat, but the weight never came back on. So many people called the authorities on him. Some threw rocks at his windows.

No one noticed that the other 25 horses were in great condition, very healthy and well taken care of. Because of the harrassment, he ended up putting the horse down.

It's always best not to assume the worst, talk with the owner to see if there's a health problem. Check out their other animals and see if they look healthy.

If the owner refuses to speak with you and all the animals look like they need medical attention, then call the proper authorities. But give the owner the benefit of the doubt first before taking action.
Member:
canyon28

Posted on Friday, Apr 13, 2007 - 1:57 pm:

I have no problem with you shooting your donkey, had a friend have to shoot her mare a couple of years ago, she had west nile and had been down for 3 days or so. They could not get the vet out and wanted to end her suffering. I just hate to see an animal suffer if I am sure they are terminal and nothing can be done. I lost a 22 yo mare last fall to intestinal cancer or something similar, slow loss of weight over two or three months, when she had always been an easy keeper and loved to eat. Did every kind of test on her we could think of, as well as floating her teeth, etc. No infections, no liver or kidney disease. She just couldnt eat anymore. Two days after I weaned her from her foal, she began to colic, and I had the vet out and he put her down after tubing her and having it make her colic worse. I sure miss her, but I know there is no way she would or could have recovered from what was ailing her. Luckily I still have all three of the wonderful foals she had by my stallion, Bill The Cutter. The oldest one is 3 and is going to make a decent reined cowhorse.
TBs are notorious for being hard keepers. some people claim they have to eat twice as much as other horses to keep their weight up to normal.
so it isnt uncommon for them to be ribby, especially if they are an older animal.
Since hay is at a premium this year, many folks are not feeding as well as they should be, or are feeding alternate feeds, like hay pellets or cubes, etc. I think I have just enough hay to make it to the first cutting this year, but I am supplementing several of my mares with pellets, just to make sure I do have enough for all the horses and my cows. Besides, if you feed some pellets, you sure have a lot less manure to clean up, and there is no waste.
Member:
pbarlow

Posted on Friday, Apr 13, 2007 - 2:16 pm:

Thanks for your support. I wasn't too worried about the writer, but I thought she should be exposed so she could see herself. I also think that this is an emotional issue and it brings up a lot of negativity in some people. Emotions drive people (and animals) to behave in all sorts of quirky ways.... isn't this what we are always trying to teach the horses.... don't run off on emotion but learn to respond with rationality? Its not that LL is a bad person, she just hasn't learned to deal with her emotions in effective ways. Certainly scolding me is not very effective and calling the SPCA would be even less so.

It's like the question of humans having the right to terminate their existence. Some people would say that its not right to make them stay alive and some people would say its not right to make them dead. And they are totally passionate and committed about their perspective.

I wonder if the SPCA has a euthanasia fund? That would be a good thing.

I've started checking around to find out if there is an appropriate sized weapon if needed. It's been storming here and the vet will not be getting down the road.... our streams come up and it is dangerous and impassible. I can't imagine that Donna and I would actually go out and kill Zekey, but we need to be ready just in case he starts looking stressed. Best case scenario is one of the local cowboys stops in and does the deed for us. The chance for that is remote since they don't like slogging around in the mud any more than I do. Well, we can still wish.

Yrs,
Patricia
ps. My critters are not quite as fat this year...I finally got them onto grass hay and off the alfalfa. I just came in from popping a sugar cube into the side of Zekeys mouth. He resisted it, but then he seemed to enjoy sucking on it.
Member:
tweeter

Posted on Friday, Apr 13, 2007 - 3:02 pm:

After reading the posts I can only say that I am so happy to have a vet clinic with 6 large animal vets only 4 miles from my farm. 2 yrs ago when my broodmare ruptured something and was bleeding internal the vet was here within 15 minutes of my call and we put her to sleep right away. The cost was around $200. and like I said the vet is less than 5 minutes away, they charge $65. farm call just to pull in the driveway. With that said she was in obvious distress and needed help to leave this world as fast as possible. I can't imagine having to deal with your situation.
Member:
pbarlow

Posted on Friday, Apr 13, 2007 - 3:43 pm:

Another note from LL... see I said she was not so bad...

LL <equestrianlv@yahoo.com>
to patriciabarlow.

show details
12:32 pm (2 minutes ago)
If loving an animal and giving it the dignity and best care that I can is being "quirky" or, not being in touch with my feeling... sign me up! In the end my job as a responsible human adult is to not let any animal I own suffer needlesly.
===================
LL, so are you saying that you are in favor of euthanasia? I think everyone agrees on that.

I did get through to the vet. He said it would be wiser to kill Zekey with a gun. Otherwise it is $75 for the proceedure and $2.25/mile x 50 miles for the trip charge. He said a 357 or a 45 are big enough and that you can be about 2 feet away. The locations are the same as Dr.O's He said that the liver problems could lead to seizures. I really don't want to have to do it but it would be a no-brainer if he starts having seizures.

Patricia
Member:
leilani

Posted on Friday, Apr 13, 2007 - 3:57 pm:

My friend's horse Whitey died at 42. He ate, drank, hung out with his herd, etc. At age 35 he started to resemble a cow. One morning 4 years ago she found he had just laid down and died. No sign of struggle or pain. Whitey was a good horse. Not all things are what they seem. Leilani
Member:
pbarlow

Posted on Friday, Apr 13, 2007 - 5:34 pm:

I got a 357 revolver with a 357 magnum bullets from my son's gun safe (he is in the Navy). We have it loaded and waiting by the back door in a box. Zekey is just walking around and not looking bad so.... who knows. We are still hoping some cowboy will happen by.
Member:
juliem

Posted on Friday, Apr 13, 2007 - 7:53 pm:

Patricia, be aware, a 357, especially loaded with 357 magnum ammunition, will have a considerable "kick" which will jerk your arm holding the gun up violently when you fire and the bullet will go anywhere except where you're aiming. It would be best if you go out and practice with a target at about the right distance. Also, don't forget the animals head is usually not exactly vertical--the surface of the face is on a slant. The animal has a small brain, so your aim must be true. A bullet can be deflected by the slant of the skull and cause you to miss the brain even if the kick from the gun doesn't. Please practice and familiarize yourself with the weapon first. Two hands on the gun in a "shooters" stance.
Member:
pbarlow

Posted on Friday, Apr 13, 2007 - 8:18 pm:

He is roaming around with the herd... something he has not done for days. He is not eating or drinking, but roaming anyway. If I saw him take a bite of grass, there is no way I wouldn't keep giving him the chance.

I do not want to practice this. I just want to give the barrel a resting place, while I hold the handle with both hands. I have used a smaller caliber gun to hunt rabbits.

Right now there is no need though.... we will wait and watch.

Thanks for the guidance.
Yrs,
Patricia
Member:
pbarlow

Posted on Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 - 12:09 am:

I think Zekey is reading my posts.... he nibbled some hay and drank a sip of water from the trough just before sundown. He was shivering though so we tubed him a quart of luke warm glucose/willowbark tea and covered him with a blanket. I am hoping he lays down on it when he is ready to get off of his feet.

yrs,
Patricia
Member:
juliem

Posted on Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 - 12:20 am:

Patricia--a 357 is no small caliber gun!! I own one---please trust me on this--there will be a very significant kick.
Member:
eoeo

Posted on Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 - 7:53 am:

My son-in-law had a mule of undetermined age who was here for about 6 months. He had a bout of colic that was unbelieveable. He went for 5 days without a bowel movement once we got him oiled and on banamine. When we walked him, he would go so far and then break away and run back to the barn. After 5 days, he had one tremendous bowel movement and was fine. Good luck with Zekey. EO
Member:
frances

Posted on Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 - 9:21 am:

Hi all. Please note that I am NOT the LL who has been contacting Patricia!
Member:
oscarvv

Posted on Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 - 6:32 pm:

A neighbor used a 380 to put his horse out of her misery. It was one well placed bullet. The horse never saw it coming and died without drama and there was no blood and gore.
Member:
pbarlow

Posted on Saturday, Apr 14, 2007 - 8:07 pm:

Zekey Report for Saturday.

He is out in the front yard drinking water. He has eaten a little bit. Donna and I set out this morning with the exact plan of where to do the deed, and how to deal with all the issues, then he starts eating. He has been spending very long periods of time dipping into the water trough. He has hardly laid down at all today.

By some weird coincidence we had a visitor out of the blue who is a family practice medical doctor. I asked a lot about death from liver failure. She said in humans it is not particularly painful. Their ability to make clotting factors gets messed up and they can bleed out and they can get brain swelling, which is the cause of the depression. They often just check out quietly. She is also interested in veterinary medicine and her office is across the street from the community vet, so she is going to research it for me since she is expecting a quiet night at the hospital. It is possible that she will come back later next week and could bring the stuff to put him down if needed.

I do have a husband... he works away during the week and I expected him to help me kill Zekey when he came home last night, but he is the kindest hearted soul and just looked really frightened by the prospect. Zekey would have to be much closer to death to get him to pull a trigger on anything.

Julie... don't worry, I think I have fired this weapon before when I went out target practicing with my son. It made my wrists hurt.

Thankfully, it quit raining and is a positively beautiful day.

Hope you are all having a good one.
Yours,
Patricia
Member:
pbarlow

Posted on Sunday, Apr 15, 2007 - 11:49 pm:

Zekey report for Sunday:

He ate three square meals today, hay and grain. It looks like recovery is likely.

The doctor who just happened to show up is consulting with a vet and may come and administer Dextran tomorrow. The universe must love Zekey to send a personal physician for him!!!

We feel like we have been on an emotional rollercoaster around here. We are glad that we delayed the "final solution".

Yrs,
Patricia
Member:
annes

Posted on Monday, Apr 16, 2007 - 12:38 pm:

Patricia, it makes me smile to hear that Zekey (such a cute name) has improved. I've had my share of animal emotional rollercoasters and send a prayer out to you and Zekey.
Member:
zarr

Posted on Monday, Apr 16, 2007 - 4:26 pm:

Patricia, when we got Whiskey, our mustang, my friend got her burro Hiram Walker he was the best "mustang whisperer" I have ever seen. Hiram was a friend from day one and he made it easy for Whiskey to trust me. Love the longears very glad Zekey is doing better ! Cindy
Member:
kamibroo

Posted on Monday, Apr 16, 2007 - 7:21 pm:

Patricia

I have tears of joy to read your last post! I've been following this thread, praying for you and Zekey and thanking God that I am not currently faced with your decisions.

You handled this thread well and I have no doubt that Zekey will be with you (and well cared for) for as long as he's supposed to be.

Kami
Member:
pbarlow

Posted on Monday, Apr 16, 2007 - 9:57 pm:

Thank you all.

I don't know if partial recovery will mean full recovery, but right now he has an appetite and thirst and a bit of spunk. He has wandered around and grazed the spring grasses. He looks more than half way back to normal. The only thing that concerns me is the dark colored loose feces. Hopefully that will clear up too.

Thanks again for your support and prayers.
Yrs,
Patricia
Member:
paul303

Posted on Tuesday, Apr 17, 2007 - 1:45 am:

Patricia: I owned my nieces' pony ( 14.1 ) for 30 years. I bought him for them, used him for lessons for many years, then he brought up my own son. Kids all left, but Tonto remained. He had a few episodes just like Zekey during his last years, but they were few and far between. Thank heaven I didn't give in to the feeling that I should let him go. I would have lost years of wonderful companionship and trail riding. I really believe that animals know when they need to go - and that they let us know. So, here's to ZEKEY ( got me some Zinfandel - wine in a box ), he'll stay 'til he decides he wants to go. Good luck.
Member:
lhenning

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 18, 2007 - 1:59 pm:

I am not the LL that sent the email to Patricia either.

My husband had to shoot our dog last year and to this day I don't know how he could do it, but we both knew he had to so its good that he did. I am glad to hear your Zekey is doing better.

Linda
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Apr 19, 2007 - 8:17 am:

Concerning the "misplaced intentions" email to Patricia, the email address is not in our system. This is a good time to remind everyone that if you have not reviewed the Help & Information » Privacy and Security Statements this is a good time. In general we advise members to check the hide your email address in your profile which is the default when you join.
DrO
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Thursday, Apr 19, 2007 - 9:05 am:

Glad Zekey is doing better.

I wanted to share something my husband said regarding the bullet to the head vs a shot from a needle to kill a horse.

He had to use the gun to shoot a horse of ours who broke his leg on the 4th of July about 6 years ago. A few years later, the Mom to this horse had to put down and we all cried and insisted we have the vet do this the "nicer way".

He told me that the bullet between the eyes was much quicker and he had a harder time watching the mare die than he had her colt. Only difference being he wasn't the one doing the deed the 2nd time, so you'd think it would have been easier.

I think having the vet come out was easier on ME because I didn't have to listen for the shot; instead I hid in the barn til I heard the tractor start up and knew the hole was being covered.

I hope none of us have to make the choice how to do it anytime soon, but it is part of having animals of course.
New Member:
stark

Posted on Thursday, Apr 19, 2007 - 9:58 am:

WELL I HAD TO GO THROUGH THIS BACK IN OCTOBER 2006 WIHT MY FUTURITY PROSPECT. HE COLICED AND COULDNT AFFORD TO DO THE SURGERY. I CHOSE TO HAVE THE PET PUT HIM DOWN AND I STAYED FOR THE WHOLE THING....I WILL PROBALLY NEVER WATCH AGAIN BECAUSE I STILL HAVE MAJOR FLASHBACKS OF WATCHING HIM GO DOWN. I WOULDNT SHOOT ONE UNLESS IT WAS A NECESSITY BUT I WILL WALK AWAY WHEN THE VET TELLS ME I PROBALLY DONT WANT TO WATCH!!
Member:
pbarlow

Posted on Sunday, Oct 12, 2008 - 11:46 pm:

Update on Zekey. He did fine after he recovered. He seemed happy and healthy for the last 18 months, then suddenly this illness came back, much like it had the first time. This time I was going to let nature take its course, so we didn't do more than pet him and protect him from the other animals.

He went three days without touching his food or water. We just kept waiting and talking about Donkey Hospice. Then he went and stood by the water tank for a few hours and then started drinking. Now he is up, galloping around, following me everywhere and starting to gain back the weight he lost. Go figure. Anyway, now I am quite sure that the measures we took during his first illness were not what saved him.

Well I don't know what this does to the idea that it is lipidosis, but donkeys are very very hard to let die.

Patricia
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 - 8:28 am:

Hello Patricia,
In what ways were the two episodes similar or different. Your descriptions sound very different:
In one you had a prolonged period of weight loss before loss of appetite but you mention in the other there is a sudden loss of appetite. Loss of appetite and depression can occur is almost every disease event so are not to thought of diagnostic of similar diseases. As such from this information we cannot conclude that your previous treatment attempts were effective or not.
DrO
Member:
paul303

Posted on Monday, Oct 13, 2008 - 10:40 pm:

Give me a "Z"! Give me a "E"! Give me a "K"! Give me a "E"! Give me a "Y"! Yeaaaaaayyyy!!! ZEKEY!!! My neighbors have a donkey named "Ceasar" equipped with fat pads and all....He is the "guard donkey" of the farm and takes his job seriously.....Long Live Zekey!!! Hug him hard, for me.
Member:
pbarlow

Posted on Saturday, Nov 1, 2008 - 6:26 pm:

In the first episode, I hadn't noticed him not eating, just that he had started to loose some of his fat pad. He quit eating suddenly and laid around. He didn't eat for three days except for what we put down the tube. It was over when he went to get a drink of water.

This time he quit eating suddenly and laid around. He didn't eat for three days. It was over when he went to get a drink of water. His fat pad is not notably smaller.

You are so right that it could be different things happening, but it just seemed to be exactly the same.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Nov 2, 2008 - 9:27 am:

I see, but these overlapping signs are very general and not indicative of a particular disease. Off feed and laying around a lot, without other signs of colic, suggests to me a mild abdominal pain but the possible causes are many fold. Note that just because the colic is mild does not always mean it is not a severe disease process. Any disease process that causes remarkable weight loss is severe in my book.

Once abdominal pain passes often the first thing a horse will do is drink a lot of water and go back to eating.
DrO
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