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Discussion on Horse Liver Dysfunction
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New Member:
aucowgrl
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Posted on Monday, Apr 30, 2007 - 9:39 pm:
Hello, I have been reading this site for a long time but just not registered and this is my first post 
I have a 12yo Quarter Horse (He's Doc bred). I've had him for almost a year now and he's always been cold-backed and ornery - but a very talented riding horse. He has a habit of opening his mouth and stretching and twisting his head around. I've been told this is due to ulcers or some kind of gastric pain. I put him on Slippery Elm and Chamomile for a few weeks and the symptoms settled down.
However, now the problem is serious. He's in the hospital. Last week he became very depressed, couldn't move very well. He'd stand in the paddock with his head down and walking seemed to be a big effort. He got depressed and really tired. Then he began eating really slowly, then stopped completely. Then he stopped drinking and his urine became very dark. Then he started scouring. I had some bloodwork done and this is the result:
BIOCHEMISTRY
SODIUM 136
POTASSIUM 2.9 LOW
CHLORIDE 99
BICARBONATE 21 LOW
NA:K RATIO 46:9
ANION GAP 12.9
SERUM GLUCOSE 1.3 LOW
UREA 4.2
CREATININE 0.07 LOW
CALCIUM 2.7
PHOSPHATE 0.8
CA:P RATIO 3.4
PROTEIN TOTAL 68
ALBUMIN 25 LOW
GLOBULIN 43 HIGH
BILIRUBIN TOTAL 52
ALP 343 HIGH
AST 400
CK 515 HIGH
CHOLESTEROL 2.0
SAMPLE APPEARANCE NORMAL
MAGNESIUM 0.6 LOW
GAMMA GT 141 HIGH
HAEMATOLOGY
RBC 7.9
HAEMOGLOBIN 144
HACMATOCRIT 0.38
MCV 48
MCH 18
MCHC 379
PLATELETS NORMAL
PLATELET COUNT 122
WCC 6.3
NEUTROPHIL% 33
NEUTROPHIL ABS 2.1 LOW
LYMPHOCYTE% 42
LYMPHOCYTE ABS 2.6
MONOCYTE% 1
MONOCYTE ABS <0.1
EOSINOPHIL% 0
EOSINOPHIL ABS <0.1
BASOPHIL% 24 HIGH
BASOPHIL ABS 1.5 HIGH
FIBRINOGEN 1.1
He's had ultrasound, rectal exam, abdominal punch (centesis) with no obvious abnormalities.
I suspect the problem may have stemmed from him eating poisonous plants. I can't seem to find any other reason for this problem. Do these results look bleak for him? Any advice?
(sorry for any spelling errors)
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Tuesday, May 1, 2007 - 12:07 am:
Hi Patty,
Welcome to HA. DrO usually will answer by morning. So hang in there. What did the vet who did the bloodwork think it was? What kind of poison plants?
All the best,
leslie
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New Member:
aucowgrl
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Posted on Tuesday, May 1, 2007 - 1:27 am:
Hi Leslie, thanks or the welcome!
I'll try to hang in there for the good DrO.
It's all guesswork for now. It looks like it could be fireweed poisoning (Australian name for ragwort) or something similar, but we don't have fireweed here - they may have had it where I bought him from. We have some Patterson's Curse but he doesn't eat enough of that to cause this type of damage. I noticed he did start to eat the flowers of the Curse for a short time last year so it may have exacerbated an existing problem. Right now we just don't know. I just talked to the vet and he said he is waiting for some bile/gall bladder results.
It's just so frustrating and I feel so guilty about not catching this sooner. If I find that it's all because of the *curse* on this property I'll be moving.
Patti
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Member:
kthorse
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Posted on Tuesday, May 1, 2007 - 7:24 am:
Hi Patti , my mum lost a lot of horses due to PATTERSONS CURSE. and she doesnt think they ate a lot. Some thing to think about. I hate that stuff. I have no idea how much they need to consume but I am sure each horse has a different tolerance level. Some it doesnt bother them. at least they dont show symtoms.
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New Member:
aucowgrl
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Posted on Tuesday, May 1, 2007 - 8:47 am:
Katrina it is really awful stuff. Sorry about your mum's horses. I know that Canberra lost hundreds in the months after the 2003 fires. I am hoping it isn't that horrid plant that's affected Okie. The vet said the level were odd for Curse poisoning but who knows! Maybe we just caught it early.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, May 1, 2007 - 9:17 am:
Welcome Patty,
I am sorry to meet you over such a serious problem. Paterson’s curse (Echium plantagineum), is also known as salvation Jane, is a major weed in winter pastures throughout southern Australia and can be a problem in areas of natural vegetation. The toxic principle is pyrrolizidine, a liver toxin, and if this is the problem the prognosis is poor once clinical signs have developed.
In general lab findings are not always indicative of the seriousness of a problem. Looking over your lab results above the calcium, and phosphorus appear low and the bilirubin high, though without units and lab normals I cannot be sure. Is your horse jaundiced?
I do agree the above strongly suggests liver disease but let's explore some other possibilities. Is there any history of tetanus antitoxin use (not the vaccine but the antitoxin, see the article on tetanus if this does not make sense). Since you have him off access to all poisonous plants in the interest of saving time here consider ionophore toxicity also Diseases of Horses » Nervous System » Dementia: Depression, Excitement, Coma » Ionophores and Livestock Feed Poisoning. Though I would have expected signs of kidney failure with ionophores, it is also liver toxic.
DrO
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New Member:
aucowgrl
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Posted on Tuesday, May 1, 2007 - 7:37 pm:
Hi DrO,
Thank you for the advice. No, he's not jaundiced at all. His color is good. There's no temperature or anything indicative of a virus.
I am going to attach the report so you can see the normals.
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New Member:
aucowgrl
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Posted on Tuesday, May 1, 2007 - 7:52 pm:
OK I just heard from the vet. His bile acids are in the level of 80, with the normal being 30. So the prognosis is not good. It is the pyrrolizidine that has most likely caused it. He's now on antibiotics and medication to try and stop the progress and clinical signs. If there is no improvement within 3 days, I will probably lose him.
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Member:
aucowgrl
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Posted on Wednesday, May 2, 2007 - 8:24 am:
DrO, I have a moderate amount, but I have a 100 acre property and the horses have the run of 90 acres of it. There is more grass than curse.
I feed them long stem oaten hay. I fed them clover/rye over spring, which seemed to be clean. It wasn't red clover. But now I'm thinking I should check again on that. Lots of horse owners in our area get the same big bales of clover I do and I haven't heard of anyone having problems with it. I don't ever feed alfalfa (lucerne) hay for the simple fact it's hard to see if there is any curse in there. I had some fiddleneck come up this spring but slashed it and did my best to keep the horses away from it.
I am having my other 3 horses here blood tested tomorrow. The vet said to have bile acid and liver function done.
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Wednesday, May 2, 2007 - 1:38 pm:
So very sorry to hear this Patti, and I really hope he pulls through.
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Wednesday, May 2, 2007 - 2:20 pm:
I am so sorry to hear this. I too hope he pulls through.
What a vile weed.
Sincerely
leslie
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Member:
aucowgrl
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Posted on Wednesday, May 2, 2007 - 9:23 pm:
DrO,
He has not history of tetanus antitoxin as far as I know. He received his normal vaccine last year, and three months ago he cut himself on rusty fence wire. The cut healed well, it didn't bleed much and didn't need stitches. I used comfrey powder and aloe on the cuts, then wheatgrass juice). I know comfrey contains pyrrolizidine, so I only used it for 2 days, then switched to wheatgrass. I did not have any antitoxin administered.
The article on ionophores was extremely interesting. He does present with some of those symptoms and it may be that growth promoters were used. I need to follow up with my supplier to find out. I would hope that he would not be selling such dangerous feed to horse owners!
I forgot to specify, that the weed we have is not the true Patterson's Curse - it's Viper's Bugloss. It's not as toxic as the Curse, but it's closely related. It's such a nasty plant and so resistant to herbicides. We are now going to move out the cattle and the horses get 100 head of merinos in to run over winter.
Thanks everyone for your wishes. I am praying for him. I will keep you posted on him. Here's a picture of my little guy taken 2 weeks ago, just before he got sick. This is breaking my heart.
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Thursday, May 3, 2007 - 9:25 am:
What a beautiful horse. Best wishes that he pulls through!
Lilo
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Member:
aucowgrl
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Posted on Thursday, May 3, 2007 - 10:14 am:
Thank you Lilo. He is a cute little guy with a big heart. You can see the chrome in his coat through the dirt. That's why it's so awful to see him go downhill so fast. He was looking so healthy. He never lost condition, even being so ill. His coat went dull and he became depressed, but he was (and is) still a little puddin.
The vet called today and he's improved slightly. He seems more interested in the other horses around him and whinnied when some were removed. The hospital is next to the racetrack and the vet said he had his head hanging out the window listening to the races all day.
He is walking his box at night, but he's eating well and drinking again.
He still hasn't improved enough for the vet to be comfortable so we still have a long way to go. His chances have gone from 70:30 death:life to 50:50 now so that's a plus.
One slow day at a time.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Thursday, May 3, 2007 - 10:38 am:
Hang in there with this guy, Patti. I know how hard it can be emotionally. If his odds are improving it sounds like you got him to the hospital in time. Best of luck with him.
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Member:
annes
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Posted on Thursday, May 3, 2007 - 11:10 am:
Patti - I am praying he will continue to improve (such a beautiful guy!) and that your other horses will be fine too.
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Thursday, May 3, 2007 - 1:07 pm:
Patti, I'm wishing you the best of luck for your horse's recovery and I'm hoping too that your other horses will test negative and not be affected by the same troubles.
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Member:
aucowgrl
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Posted on Tuesday, May 8, 2007 - 7:55 pm:
Just letting you all know Okie died in my arms last night, 24hrs after bringing him home.
The other horses tests came back clear.
I'm devastated.
Thank you all for your prayers.
Patti.
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Tuesday, May 8, 2007 - 8:03 pm:
Patti, I'm so very sorry to hear that you lost Okie. I hope his passing away in your arms brought a measure of comfort to him and you can find peace knowing he was with someone he loved.
My deepest condolences~
Fran
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, May 8, 2007 - 8:22 pm:
Patti, I'm so sorry! I know well how difficult it is to have one of your horses die.You will have a few hard days ahead of you. It helps me a lot to spend time with my other horses. Was the vet ever able to confirm that is was the plant that poisoned him?
Again, I'm so sorry this happened. He was a nice looking guy.
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Member:
leslie1
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Posted on Wednesday, May 9, 2007 - 12:20 am:
OH Patti, I am so so very sorry. Im sure your heart is breaking right now, but hang in there. I am glad that none of your other horses had it.
Sincerely,
Leslie
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Member:
hwood
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Posted on Wednesday, May 9, 2007 - 12:34 am:
Did you bring him home to die, Patti? Will you be able to bury him tomorrow?
I know how it feels to go through this kind of loss, Patti, with horses, dogs, and people. Don't doubt yourself. You did what you could do. Death is part of life, and it always seems to happen when we least expect it. Grieve to the degree you loved . . . and then go forward with your memories close to your heart.
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Wednesday, May 9, 2007 - 12:50 am:
Ah no. Take care of yourself, Patti. Each time one of us loses, we all feel it.
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Wednesday, May 9, 2007 - 5:38 am:
I am so sorry he was such a lovely horse in such an excellent condition on your picture. I'm glad your other horses are fine but it must be just a small consolation.
Take care and take your time to grieve your loss.
Jos
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, May 9, 2007 - 8:21 am:
My condolences Patti. I am relieved to hear the others are well.
DrO
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Member:
lilo
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Posted on Wednesday, May 9, 2007 - 9:33 am:
Patti - so sorry to hear about your losing Okie. I am sure this is a very hard time for you. Fortunately the other horses are fine - but, there is always that special one.
My condolences,
Lilo
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Wednesday, May 9, 2007 - 2:47 pm:
Patti,Each time we lose a friend the pain is terrible but eventually will recede to a dull ache. But the bright wonderful memories are what we must hang on to .... am so glad he died in your arms that way your warmth and love were what Okie carried to the Rainbow Bridge! Cindy
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Wednesday, May 9, 2007 - 6:50 pm:
Oh Patti, I was so hoping your handsome guy would pull through. My condolences.
Erika
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Member:
aucowgrl
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Posted on Wednesday, May 9, 2007 - 10:29 pm:
Thank you all for your words of support. Losing him has really been the most painful experience.
He didn't die well, it was horrible. Violent, drawn out and painful for him and me and the other horses, and that makes it even worse. I blame the vet hospital for treating him with such a lack of caring and allowing him to deteriorate into a skeletal, loco, neurologic mess over 8 days. No horse deserved to die the way he did. It was so cruel.
My little guy is buried in my house yard, 20ft deep so he is never disturbed, just inside the fence where he used to wait to be fed every morning. I buried him with his reining plates, bridle and the first champion ribbon I won with him. I could never use his bridle or shoes on another horse. I would have put the new show saddle I bought for him last month in there too if it weren't for my husband stopping me.
I cut some mane and tail hair to keep and one day I'll have something made from it.
I don't even know if and when I will ride again.
Thank you all for all your kindness. It means a lot to me.
Patti
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, May 9, 2007 - 11:20 pm:
You'll ride again, Patty. I'm pretty sure of that. You just have to allow yourself time to heal.
I'm sorry he didn't go easily. I know it makes it just that much worse. Can you plant a tree or flowering shrub over his gravesite? For some reason that has helped me.
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Member:
zarr
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 2:08 am:
Patti, plant a yellow rose bush ... they stand for courage! Cindy
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Member:
annes
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 11:52 am:
Patti - I am so sorry....my heart breaks for you. I wish there was something I could say to lessen your pain. - Ann S.
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Member:
canyon28
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Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 2:34 pm:
VEry sorry to hear that your horse didnt pull through. I had a mare that ate something poisonous a few years ago and I was able to save her by keeping her out of the sun in the barn all day, and only feeding her grass hay and grass pasture at night, until her liver functions returned to normal levels. I was told and I also read that most of the toxic plants that horses eat will accumulate the toxins over their life time in their livers, it doest cleanse it self, yet my old mares liver function did return to normal after about 4 months of careful feeding and monitoring. But she never was the same after that, about a year or so later she began to have laminitis problems , abcesses with her front feet that we could not get to clear up. I finally had her put down because one of the abcesses got into her coffin bone and caused it to get infected. She was 24 years old, not a young horse like yours was.
I know your heart is broken, I still get teary when I think about this mare and everything she went through, only to have it fail in the end. But what is done is done, you cannot change what happened to him at the vets, but you can make sure it never happens again to any of your other horses. The other posters from Aust have given you some good advice about the poisonous plants you have to deal with, and apparently even small amounts are very toxic. I would really concentrate on making sure none of your other horses suffer the same fate.
Every horse I have lost over the years makes a little bit bigger hole in my heart, but I keep going, because the new foals have such a clean bright face and they show such promise.
I lost five of my best and most favorite horses in the last 18 months, and it has been really hard. That is what happens when a person has old horses, they get old and they die, or need to be put down due to health reasons. The worst loss was my fav riding mare, she died of a heart attack while I was riding her in 2005. She was only 12 years old. I thought she would be with me for at least twice that long, but it wasnt meant to be.
Losing your favorite horse is so hard, but there will be another to take his place. Not in the same way, but still another horse that will give you pleasure to have and to ride, and they will be your best friend. I try to compartmentalize my losses into a box inside my heart, where I can keep the happy memories forever, and unlock the box when I want to remember and think about them.
I am very sorry about the terrible pain your horse was in at the end. Your vet was callous and uncaring if they knew he was dying and allowed him to suffer like that. take care. Chris www.canyonrimranch.net
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Member:
sonoita
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Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 9:31 am:
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