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  Discussion on Lame From Scratches?
Author Message
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 8, 2003 - 11:16 am:

Is it possible for a horse to be so sore in their joints from scratches that they go lame? My mare has a bad case that is resolving, and she has been hesitant to use the worse back leg since it started (you really can only tell when doing voltes to the right). Should I check for other things?
Alicia
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 9, 2003 - 12:07 am:

Alicia,
Scratches is extremely painful for the horses when it is behind the heel and pastern. Imagine having athlete's foot between your toes and having someone try to spread your toes apart. The splits are fresh and sore and HURT!!! When the horse walks, the skin behind his pasterns stretches and pulls on all those raw places created by the scratches fungus. . . . So . . . your horse may be trying to avoid stretching that skin by trying NOT to walk . . . if the scratches disappears and the horse continues to be lame, then I would think that you should check for another cause of her lameness.
Holly
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 9, 2003 - 6:30 am:

Holly's post sounds sensible to me, basically you should check for other causes of lameness whenever you cannot explain the degree of lameness by the existing lesions. No I don't believe the scratches could cause arthritis, but that does not mean it could not exist.
DrO
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 9, 2003 - 9:21 am:

OK. She seemed no better yesterday. Still giving me a hard time whenever she had to bring that right foot under her and really bend the fetlock (cantering small circles to the right). The scratches on the left foot are much better, probably be gone in a few more days. The right foot still has a lot of lesions, but they aren't oozing or bleeding. They are just scabs, and are starting to fall off. Should I bute her until they heal?
Oh, on a possibly related topic. She had welts on her belly yesterday, and patches of welts on other parts. The belly was like clouds or patches of cotton. It was sensitive too. Fortunately, there were no swellings in the girth area, so I could still ride. Could she have a systemic infection because of the scratches? I have sulfa at the barn if I need to use it.
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 9, 2003 - 9:23 am:

Oh, forgot to add. Her right leg is still swelling to about two inches above the fetlock. It goes away after exercise, but the left leg doesn't swell at all anymore. They both swelled in a typical stocking up way (almost to the hock) before I started treating the scratches.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 9, 2003 - 5:47 pm:

The bute will make her more comfortable while you treat according to the article. Without looking I cannot know about a possible systemic infection Alicia but I have never heard of such from scratches and these are most likely the result of fly bites or a case of unrelated hives (we have an article on Hives).
DrO
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Friday, Jul 11, 2003 - 10:09 am:

Dr. O.,
Wednesday she was so bad she was lame at a trot. I started her on antibiotics. Yesterday, she was totally sound. Could the medicine have kicked in within 24 hours? I am going to continue the antibiotics for at least 3 days to make sure I kill whatever it was.
Alicia
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Jul 11, 2003 - 6:52 pm:

It may have just been time to turn the corner, all scratches eventually get better even without antibiotics. As to other problems, I don't know.
DrO
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Friday, Jun 24, 2005 - 12:19 pm:

Wow, I was looking for info on this, and lo and behold, I wrote up the info I was looking for ;) Lilly has bad scratches again (she came from the brood mare farm with them, and these are worse than the case above). I reread the article and it does not say to use antibiotics. She is VERY lame on one foot and semi on the other (both in back again, but this time her left hind is worse). She is also dripping a thick exudate from her vagina, which I assume means she has an infection in her uterus (I am not saying the two are related). My vet came to check her last week and said she was fine repro wise, but she has been dripping this stuff ever since she came home (been over a month now). My barn manager held for me, as the vet was late, so I didn't get to ask her about the dripping. She had a two or three week (can't remember which) course of sulfa when she got home too. Could the stuff on her legs be resistant to the sulfa? Is there another med I could use to get rid of both problems (if the one in her uterus is an infection as it appears to be to me)? I do have a call in to the vet, but she has not called back yet. I guess I can try buting her in the mean time.
Alicia
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Jun 24, 2005 - 9:36 pm:

Though not impossible the two problems are probably not related and yes the stuff on the legs could be resistant. Better would be topical treatments as outlined in the article and it sounds like the mare needs a good exam to determine exactly where the infection is coming from (has there been damage to the vagina?) to determine the best treatment and perhaps culture to determine the best antibiotic choice.
DrO
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Friday, Jun 24, 2005 - 11:00 pm:

Dr. O.,
This is my mare who lost her foal to a dystocia. She had a tear in the canal, and her outer area doesn't look the same to me. I guess I had better make a real appointment as opposed to calling the vet on her cell. Good thing is, I have already paid the deductible ;)
I am doing the topical and will continue to do so. I will ask for a culture. Could my small animal vet do it?
Alicia
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Jun 26, 2005 - 10:13 am:

Best ask the small vet Alicia. The culture should be taken at the origin of the infection and not just the stuff running out the back.
DrO
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 2:30 pm:

Wow, yet again! She is again affected by scratches, this time a little earlier. I have been treating with several different things mentioned in your article, but have not tried ichthamol. She is actually stocking up in both hinds, and it hurts her a lot and they are hot. She is not lame, though. I was thinking I would try the ichthamol, but it would be left on for two days, as I won't be able to go out to the barn again till then. How long can you leave that on? I was not going to wrap it, I was just going to slather it on and wash it off the next time I saw her, then dry her and put the antibiotic and desitin. Oh, by the way, would vaseline work the same as desitin? It is much cheaper than desitin.
Alicia
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 2:59 pm:

Not sure about the ichthamol but Desitin Original Ointment is formulated with 40% zinc oxide, in a base of cod liver oil (rich in Vitamins A and D), lanolin, and petrolatum so it has a bit more than vaseline. I was told by our vet recently that just plain old Zinc oxide would do the trick as well when I thought Demetrius was getting a mild case of sratches. You can buy a generic version of desitin at your local food store and will cut the cost for packaging of name brand.

Good Luck.
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 3:08 pm:

Corinne,
I thought, from reading the article, that the desitin was to lock the moisture out and the medicine in. If that other stuff helps too, I will definately use it instead of the vaseline. I may try a bulk store, it takes a lot to cover the pasterns!
Alicia
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 3:56 pm:

Alicia,
As I understand it, Vaseline can incubate anerobic bacteria, so unless you used an antibiotic under a coat of Vaseline, I would stay away from it. A soap and water wash that was well dried and coated with Desitin, always worked really well for me.
Member:
Aannk

Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 4:06 pm:

I wouldn't put it on alone, but over other medicine to keep the water out. However, it seems from the posts I am getting that it may not be the right choice, even though one of my vets said it would work fine.
Member:
Corinne

Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 5:53 pm:

Alicia, yes you are right about using the desitin over a layer of antifungal or anti-bacterial but they all work as protective barriers, with zinc oxide being the main ingredient.
In the NICU we use generic form of diaper rash ointment as it's cheaper and we had a lot of butts to slather. Regular store brands are typically the same just like generic vs brand named medication. Read the labels and you might find one with similar ingredients for cheaper. I would definately check out the bulk stores. One tube cost me $7.00 and didn't last more than a week (I was using it over an antifungal in the spots where scratches were starting).
I think it would work fine alone as a protective barrier if there is no sign of sratches but as a preventative to protect the skin from muddy mucky spring turnouts.
Holly makes sense about vaseline.....it keeps oxygen out which would in my mind make anerobic bacteria very happy since they feed on oxygenless environments. Interesting.....
Oh yes....zinc oxide also works great on pink nose snips as protection from the sun.
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Thursday, May 11, 2006 - 11:13 pm:

A friend who worked as a biochemist said that they used vaseline as a culture for anerobic bacteria . . .
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, May 12, 2006 - 8:20 am:

Though the ichthamol should be safe for two days I would worry about not being able to check it daily. It will become a mess without covering it and bandages on the leg should be checked several times a day.
DrO
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