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Discussion on Ugh. its my turn
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Member:
Socaldug
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Posted on Monday, Aug 25, 2003 - 2:03 am:
ive been very fortunate so far but it happened a couple nights ago. i'll present the case, then ask the question...
the horse:
6 y/o belgian mare with an 11 week old colt (this is her second foal i think). purchased 5 weeks ago. slightly underwieght (maybe 75-100#) but has shown signs of getting heavier. otherwise healthy and baby is doing great. mare is aproximately 1400-1500# (vet's best guess)
prior owner fed only burmuda (not sure of quantity); and Cappers Mare and Foal. horse was owned by this person for aproximately 7 months prior to my purchase. prior owner states the birth was quite uneventfull, quick and normal.
i transitioned her over a 2 week period to 60-40 alfalfa/orchard (~20-30#/day over two feedings) and continued the mare-and-foal pellets. also run 2 cups of soy oil twice daily. we pony up the colt and ride for about 45 minutes every day or maybe every other day.
the event:
9:30pm after returning from dinner noticed the mare laying down with the colt. didnt think much of it, however i had never seen her laying down before. decided to pet her as i do the colt. she got up, and layed right back down. this time, putting her head down also with nostrils flared and showing teeth... at this point my brain went into high gear and i asked my son to grab the halter, lead rope and my cell phone. i began walking her around the arena as i call the vet. she would walk for about 2 minutes then lay down. no rolling, stomping, or harsh behavior... just lay down. it was obvious she was in pain.
vet is there 20 minutes later. takes out her stethoscope and listens around. i give her all the info i can and she heads back out to the truck.
in goes the 1st 12-pack  15cc banamine and 30cc diprone. now for the wiskey chaser: 0.5ml Tolb (or something like that) and 2ml xylozine. 5 minutes later i got a DrOopy, happy and quite wobbly draft horse leaning on me.
the long glove goes on and the vet reaches in and... well... whatever she was doing musta been standard procedure. she preps up a glove test on the fecal matter mixed with water...
next the tube goes up the nose and 1 gallon of oil and 1/2 gallon of water gets pumped in.
we chat a bit, laugh at my poor mare acting very drunk, then she gives me instructions.... "no food until the oil comes through... 1.5 cups psyllium powder twice a day for 30 days then 3 days per week after that". she hands me a tube of banamine (2 doses worth) that i am to use if she shows signs of discomfort. she checks the glove and says "yup. sand". by 11:30 the drugs have worn off and the mare looks like nothing had happened. head high, begging for food and attention. i set my alarm every two hours and check on her. all is good.
next day. poop everywhere. some of it oily. the mare has bent the corrals into some unusual shapes to get to my arabs food. she is starving and looking very normal! around noon i feed a mini-flake with the psyllium and oil... continue mini feedings throughout the day. took her and the colt for a walk around the neighborhood.
next next day. same routine. looks normal, bent corrals. i spread the feeding into many small feedings throughout the day. another short walk around the block.
so... sorry for the long story. my question is what next?! i have installed bins so there is no ground feeding but my mare is a hoover! she can vaccuum up every last peice of anything off the ground. i'm doing the psyllium thing but it sounds like psyllium might be an old wives tale. i'm considering matting in the feed bin area. stalls are 24x48 with about 1/4 acre of dirt "area" to turn out and let them play (no pasture). continuous fresh water is available and i have begun hosing down the stalls during these 100+ degree days to DrOp the dust levels.
if psyllium is a crock, is there something else? what about some other material in the stall (like DG)? should i plan on this reoccuring? very scary!
any suggestions are welcome and appreciated. i sure dont want her to go through this again! nor would i want repeated $300 vet bills if there is something i can do to avoid it.
thanks!
doug
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Aug 25, 2003 - 8:29 am:
Hello Doug,
The article is pretty clear: horses on a regular diet clear themselves of sand and psyllium does not speed up the process. What fixes the problem is to insure they do not take in more sand than they can clear. The article gives lots of suggestions and anything you can do to prevent accidental ingestion of sand will help.
DrO
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Member:
Jojo15
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Posted on Monday, Aug 25, 2003 - 9:36 am:
Hi Doug,
Seems like you have everything under control. I live in Florida and Sand colic is what usually happens if /when they colic. I have learned a few things that might help you, too.
Whether or not psyllium is an old wives tale, I do feed it a few times a year. And i can't prove that it helps but i think it does. I don't feed coastal unless its really healthy. I just keep her on T&A.
I still feed on the floor of the stall, better for respiratory but i try not to feed in the paddocks which are sandy and muddy. But I throw a rug down under the hay and she eats off of that.
I keep a journal and have noticed that certain times a year colic signs come up more often. I believe it has to do with change of seasons coming and barometric pressure changes. the journal helped me see the pattern. I think its more gaseous at those times, but sand always shows up high on testing too....
I stopped monthly worming and use a daily wormer. This helped immensely. I do what is recommended in the articles for daily worming and yearly. But it keeps the flora in check.
I don't feed mineral oil regularily since it has no nutritive value and sucks out everything before it has a chance to be of use. I do add oils though. Flaxseed or corn oil seems to help her. But it adds some weight. and I use less in the summer than winter, etc. And I still bran mash every few months.
I added a mineral supplement because that will stop her from digging in the sand looking for ... whatever she is looking for... Those salt blocks that are brown. Or in the summer add electrolytes when it gets too hot. and supplements like Source. I find she doesn't dig, the minute she starts digging in the paddock i know she is looking for something missing in her diet.
I keep a handy supply of banamine and probiotics. just in case. So, the minute i see a change i use it. I think it stops it if i catch it in time. Plus i don't have to call the vet out unless i notice its getting worse not better, etc. Sometimes the vet never really needs to come out but that is only me and i have learned the signs over the years, mild vs. ....
I also check her manure regularily. People at my barn at first thought i was paranoid.... ;) but now I see them doing it regularily too. And there is always a little bit of sand but I can read when too much is starting.
My mare is either prone to colic or this area makes her so. I haven't a clue which one. but hopefully this was a one time instance for you and it happened because she had a foal. For me this happens a couple of times a year. I noticed in your post your mare wasn't a thrasher, or roller she just knew that she was in pain and laid down. My mare does the same thing. I get all nervous when they roll, like they could make it worse and twist, etc.
I know some of these are so simple but, its worth noting them again if it helps...
jojo
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Member:
Roboski
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Posted on Monday, Aug 25, 2003 - 10:17 am:
Hey, Doug
Like JoJo I live in Florida,Land Of The Sand Colic. The articles here in HA are excellent as far as management practices and I do my best to follow them. I psyllium'd for years and finally held my breath and gave it up. The thing I firmly believe (and had confirmed by the vet who did the surgery on a friend's horse)is to keep them ingesting enough roughage to keep everything moving. My horses have hay ( grass hay in the hope of not having everyone obese)in front of them 24 hr a day. So far (the sound you hear is me knocking madly on wood) I've never had a colic.Just my two cents!
Sharon
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Member:
Paul303
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 26, 2003 - 2:13 am:
About 8 months after moving to a very sandy area, I had my second colic experience in 30 years of owning horses. The first one was in the 70's when a horse got loose and had a ball under an apple tree, and the other was sand. Hay in the sandy paddocks was fed in raised hay racks with trough built under them to catch what falls.
We leveled an area in each paddock and laid 12 rubber mats under each hay feeder. These paddocks are cleaned twice a day, and we throw a gas blower on the back of the manure spreader and blow the mats clean. We also installed stone dust and rubber mats in all the stalls - we liked that so much that we did the alley too. And, just for good luck, we feed psyllium the first week of each month. Knock wood, haven't had another colic in 6 years.
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Member:
Socaldug
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 26, 2003 - 11:03 am:
many thanks for the info!!! we'll continue to do the recommended preventative measures.
its been 4 days now and she appears to be doing fine. we are almost back to her normal feeding routine but she sure hates that psyllium stuff
lets hope that nobody needs to go through that again!
doug
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Member:
Socaldug
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 21, 2003 - 9:57 pm:
next update (i love a happy follow up)
the mare is doing great! she appears to be gaining a bit of weight on the sides of the withers, back and flanks (this is where she appeared thin when i bought her). she is also losing the "baby belly" and the milk sack no longer looks like the goodyear blimp. i'm riding her almost every other evening and she appears to be trimming up and filling out in all the right places.
the colt, after being seperated by two stalls for a couple weeks, is now down the street at my friends house for a week or two of hard weaning. neither mom nor baby seam to care and both are enjoying a bit of freedom from each other.
baby (now 4 months old) had his full vaccination series (strangles, 5-way, WNV, etc) and the vet recommended a lighter diet as his front knees are quite swollen (kinda like little water balloons under the skin). the vet called it something that started with a "P" and sounded a little like apendicitis (sorry, cant remember the term).
no more signs of colic or discomfort and todays poop test only showed a few small grains of sand!
the mare is even doing a bit of happy-happy running and bucking around the arena! (this is quite the sight when its a draft horse)
oh well, thanks for the advice again... its below 100 degrees outside finally, so i'm off to go ride!!!
doug
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Sunday, Sep 21, 2003 - 11:05 pm:
doug, looked up your profile.. love the picture.. is that your 4 month old colt...
boy has it been hot out here in california..
Ann
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Member:
Socaldug
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Posted on Monday, Sep 22, 2003 - 1:10 pm:
yup. thats our baby! that picture was taken at about 3 months. dad is 18hh at about 2000 pounds. mom is about 17hh at 1600 pounds.
i cant believe how kind and gentle these animals are. all that matters to them is attention and food
if we decide to keep the colt, we will have the vet do the big snip (poor little guy), if we sell him, we wont cut him. i dont see selling him at this point though; each day the thought of it gets tougher. we will decide in the next month.
i just joined the norco mounted posse with the mare. they are calling her the "Posse Tow Truck" she wont win any races, but she will register on the richter scale for sure.
hot is right. it was 105 yesterday in the inland empire (norco). YUCK!
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Monday, Sep 22, 2003 - 6:34 pm:
He is adorable! Love the pic! I went to a Draft Horse Classic this weekend and was able to scratch and aww over an 18.2 hand Belgian.... he was as sweet as could be (;)
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Member:
Dres
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Posted on Monday, Sep 22, 2003 - 8:51 pm:
Aileen ,i went to the draft horse classic too, in northern cal..? i love them.. are they really as gentle and quiet as there..??
wonder if there is a market for spotted drafts..???
Ann
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Member:
Socaldug
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 23, 2003 - 12:25 am:
ann,
i've been shopping for drafts for at least 9 months and finally bought a couple. after meeting/riding/getting to know many of them, i can say YES! *most* of them are that gentle and kind! i'm sure however there are oddballs that dont act like drafts.
my mare, for example, doesnt spook. if she does get worried or concerned about something, all she does is purr. its like a loud low pitch lion purr or something. once i tell her its ok and give her a rub, she stops and its back to normal. she does not raise her head, jump, turn, spin, or act like a nut; just purrs and continues to look for cues from the handler/rider.
i have had her around parades and large groups where a bazillion kids all wanted to pet her at the same time. she simply lowered her head and enjoyed the attention. had this been my arab, he would have jumped into the next zip code, emptied his colon, and had a horsey heart attack on the spot.
quality spotted drafts carry a slightly higher price than other drafts, but with the influx of PMU foals available, draft prices are still quite low compared to other breeds.
PMU's are a great way to get a draft cheap, but in my opinion, pay a little more and go for the fully imprinted, well handled, and (at least) halter trained youngsters, you will love every minute of it.
also watch out for the amish trained drafts. most are ok, but there are some oddities with the amish training, shoeing, and methods that may be quite different from what you are used to.
they say once you have owned a draft, you will never go back, and i agree! im hooked.
doug
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 23, 2003 - 10:46 am:
Ann, I love them too...I was considering buying one, however after seeing them at the Classic, I'd have to remove a partition in the barn to give them a 24 x 12 stall (;0 They are HUGE! They wear approximately a size 8 shoe and it's $200 for shoes. Not in my budget right now unfortunately...maybe later (;)
In addition to Doug's comments, did you see the paint crosses they have now? Perhaps it won't be long for the spotted to be recognized as well (;)
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Member:
Jerre
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 23, 2003 - 12:10 pm:
How 'bout just going 1/2 way? I have a Percheron/TB cross who is 15.3, 1250 lbs, wears a size 2 (regular cost) shoe, and most regular tack fits her. AND she's super mellow and unflappable. My best friend, who is a superior dressage rider and can handle very hot horses, just got a young Percheron/QH cross so she could have something to "get on and go places" with. Both of us have passed 50, and having fun and being safe are pretty high on the list now!
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 23, 2003 - 3:44 pm:
I just may have to look into that! Thanks!
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Member:
Socaldug
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 24, 2003 - 11:50 am:
$200 for shoes? ouch! i'm paying $40 for a trim and $100 for shoeing (providing only "normal" shoes are needed). i guess it all depends on the farrier and the area.
another thing the look at would be the American Cream. kinda like a half draft/half palamino. wonderful temperment, not too tall (normally 15.2 to 16.2), and much smaller feet.
keep on riding!
doug
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 24, 2003 - 12:50 pm:
It's good to know the cost depends on the area. I saw a team of the American Creams at the Classic too... They are GORGEOUS! I'll have to look for a breeder up here.
Thanks!
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