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  Discussion on Is this stifle lock?
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Member:
sbower

Posted on Monday, May 7, 2007 - 9:05 am:

My daughters horse was in a reining show this past weekend and after one of her patterns she exited the ring and was talking to her trainer when the horses left hind end just seemed to collapse. The trainer "goosed" him on his belly and he took one step and straightened right up. We've seem this before a couple of times where the horse just seems to have a momentary weakness and/or takes a funny step but this time it was really obvious. So I decided to video tape every time she came out of the pen and see if I could catch it happening again. Took awhile but I finally "caught" a milder example. Can I post a video here?

Anyway, it looks like something is occurring in the stifle, to me it looks like more of a dislocation than a "locking". The horse is not lame, he has lost a little weight and hind end muscling but in the past month or so we stepped up his exercise (lots of trot work) and his hind end is looking better. We've never seen this weakness when he is working, he spins and does lead changes beautifully. Even his sliding stops are coming along. I've read the article on UFP and am wondering if this is whats happening but he isn't lame or jerky at all. I have a call into the vet to have him evaluated neurologically (maybe EPM?) but I'd like to know what you think .

Dr O, can I send you the video to post here?
Member:
sbower

Posted on Monday, May 7, 2007 - 2:39 pm:

I ended up posting this video to a website so I could send it off to our vet so I thought I would post the link here too. I made an appt for the horse for a lameness exam (even though he's not visibly lame) and neurologic exam, but still would like to hear what you all think. Sorry for the quality of the video, I've got problems with the camera.

Here's the link

https://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v672/SBower/?action=view&current=Radar05062007 002.flv
Member:
dres

Posted on Monday, May 7, 2007 - 2:48 pm:

Shelly it does not come up..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
frances

Posted on Tuesday, May 8, 2007 - 10:47 am:

Came up ok for me just now ...
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, May 8, 2007 - 11:52 am:

Hello Shelly,
if you can email me the video (horseadviceDONOTUSETHISPART@horseadvice.com) I can post it here. Remove the caps before sending.

My impression is that the horse "sinks" on the leg prior to stepping off which is not characteristic for a stifle lock which is described in the article. However it may be a way for the horse to deal with the problem preventing a lock up. I would think a complete lameness exam will clear this issue up.
DrO
Member:
ryle

Posted on Wednesday, May 9, 2007 - 11:33 am:

Hi Shelly,
My gelding who has a problem with his stifle locking does make this same motion often and I assume the same thing that Dr. O said, that it's to is his way of preventing the locking.
Does your horse ever appear to get his leg stuck out behind him with his toe turned down and dragging?
A good lameness exam would definitely be in order, but get as much video footage of the odd motions as you can before the vet comes out because we often had owners bring their horses for a lameness exam and they would describe what we thought might be a locking stifle but the horse wouldn't exhibit the problem during the exam. Very frustrating ;)
Member:
sbower

Posted on Wednesday, May 9, 2007 - 1:54 pm:

I have never seen him "lock" and drag that leg. On the video you can actually see something "let go" in his stifle area and then over he goes. Its more like he is using the locking mechanism to rest after a hard run and then it fails on him. More of a dislocation than a lock.... I keep seeing references to "loose" stifles, is this the same as UFP?

I forgot to mention that he just finished a course of Adequan, not sure if joints can be over-lubricated??
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 7:07 am:

In my experience "loose stifles" is a poorly defined yet often heard comment. I do not find a consistent meaning and have found people use it when they see something in the leg when moving that they cannot explain like a low grade lameness or a horse that moves a bit different than what they are use to.
DrO
Member:
sbower

Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 4:43 pm:

Well, I'm going to leave this here under this topic but the vets assessment was that there wasn't anything wrong with the stifle other than it being weak from not being worked more consistently.

She also said he probably has ulcers that has led to his being underweight and has also caused muscle loss. He needs to strengthen his hind end with more work and increased turnout time. I chose not to have him scoped as I can get the medication at cost. I will admit he's been really hard to keep weight on despite increasing his food. And be does have REALLY mild colic signs at his shows. Maybe its ulcers, supposedly he will show improvement fast. We'll see...sometimes I get the feeling that ulcers is the new "fad" diagnosis.

The vet also ran complete blood panels, testing for Vit E and selenium deficiencies and a test for EPM. Don't have results yet. His neurological test was unremarkable. He was not lame although slightly positive 1/5 in right hock flexion.

All in all she thinks his symptoms are due to "thin tight MM behind, myofascial edema over lumbar and gluteal area." She observed bunny hopping and cross cantering behind. Her diagnosis was weak stifles, back pain, mild low hock pain and ulcers.

We have begun treatment with sucralfate and gastroguard for the ulcers. She prescribed something for the muscle pain that I'd never heard of called RVI. I'll going to ask of any members experience with it over in another forum.

This was a new vet for me and I was impressed with her thoroughness. That's all for now. Guess I'd better go riding!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 6:37 am:

You did the right thing leaving this post together. From the limited amount we know I cannot really comment on the diagnosis. The lack of lameness at the trot while having problems cross cantering and bunny hopping might be consistent with back pain.

What is in the RVI and what are the dosage levels?
DrO
Member:
sbower

Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 4:05 pm:

I have back some of the labs, the EPM was negative thank goodness but the vet says my horse is deficient in Vitamin E although not in selenium. She has recommended I put him on a supplement called Elevate W.S.. Could deficiency be what's causing his muscle/back pain? I admit his hay isn't great (I board so it's not under my control). How common is a vitamin E deficiency?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 9:47 pm:

Shelly what were the vitamin E and selenium levels, be sure to include the units and lab normals if you have them.

When anyone asks "could it be?" the answer often has to be yes but that is not the same as saying that it is very likely. And while there are some specific neuromuscular disorders associated with vitamin E problems it is unclear your horse fits the clinical profile. As stated in one of the research summaries in our article on vitamin E "A number of factors may influence the baseline plasma vitamin A and vitamin E levels in horses. Consequently, it is unadvisable to use a single evaluation to assess vitamin status. Multiple sampling from individual horses or sampling from many horses within a herd may reduce the variability and improve the ability to monitor vitamin status from plasma submissions."

It should be noted that in our overview article on nutrition we do have specific circumstances that recommend vitamin and vitamin E supplementation. For more on this and the diseases associated with vitamin E problems see the articles in the nutrition section on vitamins and vitamin E specifically.
DrO
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