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  Discussion on 27 year old mare in big Trouble
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New Member:
estrella

Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 2:32 pm:

Hello, I am in need of help or advise quickly. I am a brand new member so please understand. We are in big trouble here. My 27 year old mare started acting different last Wed. The first thing we noticed was she went into her stall at night, and whinnied, whinnied..we checked her, no temp, everything normal eating, drinking, manure the same. Next day we took her to the park, just to observe..she stumbled getting out of the trailer, and then again when we came home, 2 blocks away. I put her food in the feeder, she would walk right by it, noticed slight muscle tremors..then scheduled a vet he said he would be here in the am the next day. He said give her Banamine. At 5:00 am I checked her, she was down in the stall, and couldn't get up. We got her standing, emergency now vet arrives...draws blood, says give bute and gave her a muscle relaxer, prescribed Methocarbomol. She keeps placing right foot forward and it slides out front..she walks funny, stiff, wanders, puts her head in the corner, ears back, she's curling her lip and looks sucked up. I don't think it's the drugs, I noticed the leg and the same symptoms progressing pre drugs. This seemed to coincide with her heat cycle and she comes in pretty dramatically. I was there the day this mare was born, 27 years ago. I understand she won't live forever, but I'm not understanding why so sudden and the progression. In a strange way I would feel better if she had a fever, but nothing..totally normal. I insisted on the blood work. The vet said he will have it back in 2 days, we don't have 2 days. She is getting worse. The only the drugs seems to have helped with is she is not sucked up. One more thing, the morning she was down in her stall, her gums were white. The color came back with the banamine. She is a little arthritic, and of course she is retired. This mare is as tough as nails. Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 5:34 pm:

Hi estrella, Sorry to hear about your mare. DrO usually answers first thing in the mornings so hang in there. Did your vet have any idea what could be causing this?
leslie
New Member:
estrella

Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 6:03 pm:

Hi Leslie..I was confused on the log on thing, my name is actually Sandra..her name is Estrella. I just talked to him, he says Old age. I understand the old age thing, but from Wednesday to Thursday, now she's old? I pushed for the test results, he got everything back except the Liver enzyimes (sp?), all normal. She had a physical last year at an equine clinic..all good at that time also.
Member:
mcbizz

Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 6:24 pm:

Sandra, so sorry to hear this...First thing I must ask, did the vet do a rectal and stomach tube check for a blockage or impaction? If not, I would insist he do that ASAP. I lost my 16 year old gelding last month with an onset of symptoms so much like those you describe. His stools and appetite were normal until this happened.
It happened overnight, we were too late...my vet could not save him. He had ruptured internally (a belly tap was done to confirm this at the clinic)and he was euthanized. It was obviously not old age. We were too upset to consider an autopsy.
I did lose a very old horse (31) five years ago, again same symptoms, but far less suffering.
Also euthanized; surgery was not an option at his age. It is so terribly hard; my thoughts are with you and your dear horse.
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 6:27 pm:

Hi Sandra,
Lets pray this is just an episode.
-leslie
New Member:
estrella

Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 6:59 pm:

Thank you so much you guys..Carolyn, I have put a page into my vet, the good (I think) thing is the vet I use has been her vet for all of her 27 years so needless to say he's prepared for me to not accept the first diagnosis, I am very lucky in the fact that I'm a teleworker, so I spend all day with my horses. I can check her often. She has been standing in the corner with her head down, she pens her ears back, which she never, I mean never does. The other bizzare thing I have noticed is that all of her life I have been able to give her hay and she pretty much nibbles all day, often leaving some until the next morning. She is not fat, perfect weight..now when she doesn't have her nose in the corner, (in her outside run, which is big so plenty of room to be in a different place)..she has her nose to the ground...looks like she's eating, but there's nothing there..just dirt..she not eating the dirt. And she has hay maybe 3 feet away...she continues until we put her in her stall at about 9:00 pm. It used to be she would finish eating, some left, and then just sleep until it is time to come in and get her treats. Something to note on this being able to watch every thing they do through the day. I have spotted a respitory infection in my other horse before he even showed any real symptoms. I knew he was different that day. Vet came out...fever was a tad over normal..bam by the next morning..full blown, spiking a high fever and lots of snot. So I guess what I am trying to say I may be noticing slight changes the vet couldn't and I see it changing hour to hour and she hasn't presented with all of the symptoms. The blockage makes a lot of sense to me, even the constant appearance of eating. I'm bettin' she has pain in her stomach and she's trying to self medicate, this could explain why she appears sucked up.
Member:
jojo15

Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 7:21 pm:

what does liver say, increased by how much? can it be some kind of poisoning? do liver and kidney failure go hand in hand? And what might be the cause of them?

If not then of course, a colic episode comes to mind.

I have a 24 year old mare. same scenario, have had her forever... i would be in a panic too!

i would research if horses have strokes. anything geriatric i can find on this site. And other things to keep her comfortable. is she drinking? add electrolytes, that kind of thing. eating? maybe a bran mash with the bute? just to keep her hydrated..

Sorry can't help more. I know this must be heartbreaking.
Member:
muffi

Posted on Friday, May 11, 2007 - 10:50 pm:

Sandra - Hang in there - let us know what happens when the vet comes back. - I too work from home and go out often to see my two horses. I LOVE IT. go hug her a lot - that will make you feel better at least and perhaps her as well.
Member:
paul303

Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 12:52 am:

Have her gums remained pink, or have they lost color again? Is she passing manure and urine? How is her water intake? Hang in there, Sandra.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 10:23 am:

Welcome estrella99,
Sorry to meet you over such a serious problem. Let's see here are the list of symptoms:
1) Behavioral changes with vocalization
2) Stumbling
3) Muscle Tremors
4) Ataxia
5) Peripheral vasoconstriction (white gums)

With the normal manure production I think impaction unlikely and there are no clear signs of abdominal pain described above. These signs are more referable to disease of the central nervous system and localize to the brain. I think a complete neurological work up may further localize but does not answer why. The blood work might identify the cause but only if this is the first signs of major organ failure. You seemed to be aware this is likely to be neurological as you posted in exactly the right topic continue on with the section and article on dementia, Diseases of Horses » Nervous System » Dementia: Depression, Excitement, Coma » Diagnosing Dementia.

Unfortunately none of this helps you with a specific treatment. IF this remains undiagnosed, the Banamine is logical for inflammatory disease but I would also consider adding a long time course of TMP/SMZ and several dewormings with invermectin to try and cover other treatable possibilities. Unfortunately this is just a stab at what could be several untreatable problems (see article for more on this).
DrO
New Member:
estrella

Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 1:23 pm:

Thank you so much Dr0 for writing back, I love this website and have told all of my friends, I used to surf the web looking and looking and kept hitting this site, so I took the time to see what it was about, sure glad I did!

The vet seemed to really go towards the fact that she was down in her stall, he believes probably all night. She had been in season, every injury she has had to her hocks has always been when she is in season, kicks the rails, box stall wall, squeals, doesn’t even have to have another horse next to her.

Friends came over last night, she said (an RN & horse owner) She immediately said, she looks like her neck is sore, she is sliding out her foot because she can't reach her food (trying to bend to eat the fallout from the feeder). Once the bute is administered, the gum color returns to normal. At the tail end of the span between the dosage, she isn't doing well. Last night when we gave her the Methocarbomol, which she absolutely hates, via a syringe, so she jerked, when we took off her halter, it was like her neck locked in an arch, and she stumbled. I can't feed it in anything; she is a drug detective and no matter what I do won't eat it.

Friend 2 said (Internist), thoughts are a stroke, gave me the name, said they are typically small and frequent. That she seemed detached from her environment. But if a stroke, how can bute improve her symptoms?

I know I may be reaching/hoping here, but could this also cause the symptoms?

1. Comes into season, is one crazy girl.

2. Now I have an injury, complicated by not just one leg, but maybe more, I couldn't find which leg hurt because she would favor the front, then it seemed the back. So I gave what I have been told to do, Banamine.

3. Now it's evening. She feels pretty good. Goes into her stall, decides she's going to roll in the nice shavings.

4. Gets stuck, when I found her in the morning, her neck was twisted, she was in the corner. Although I sleep with the window open so I can hear the horses, I didn't this time. I heard nothing.

Can a stiff/injured neck mimic the symptoms she has? When she is at her worst, she also can't or doesn't bend her neck, it's rigid, and then she walks funny, stumbles with the rear legs.

I am making an appointment with the equine clinic, which is equipped to do complete neurological workup.

Here is something else I did not mention. 6 years ago she had colic surgery. Yea I know kind of nutty, 21 and colic surgery. But her regular vet and the clinic vet said, she doesn't look her age, and it appeared she hasn't had one tough day in her life. Normally they said they would have told me no, which I would have been OK with. She came out of it perfectly. It was a calcified tumor, caused her to telescope. The section was removed, and not a large section. The vet said everything was pink, and healthy. She came home after her stay, that night curling lip. Took her back, ulcers..Ranitidine, re-scoped all gone. Hey we were going to buy a boat, but no boat. No regrets.

Her coat is shiny, dappled, sheds out quickly very short coat, perfect weight. Until last week, bright eyed and very feisty. Nothing to do with anything, but also cute as button, 14.2 chestnut Arabian, often mistaken because of her build as ½ Quarter Horse, Martha Stewart’s bangs..flaxen main and tail. Her face looks something Walt Disney drew. She has a fan club up here. She plays tag with me (or used to)…and will engage me in a foot race which she always wins but gives me a head start., does tricks, shakes, rears (only on command), taught her tricks because she wasn’t ready to ride until she was almost 4, based on knee X-rays. Just had to add this

To recap her current treatment.

1. Ulcer guard
2. 1 gram of bute am and pm
3. 10 pills, 2x's a day 500 mg of Methocarbamol.
4. Legend, IV once a week, I think for 4 weeks, then once a month.

So I guess what I have and what you wrote, could be many things from very simple, to untreatable. I am not familiar with TMP/SMZ and am looking it up after I click the post button. I will also pick up the invermectin.

I will keep everyone posted. Lastly I want to thank everyone for their concern, support and ideas what a wonderful group of people! Sorry this is so long, just trying to provide as much info as possible, this could probably fall under the heading Estrella and Sandra the novel.
Member:
twhgait

Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 11:18 pm:

Sandra, I'm thinking of you both too!! Hope you get this figured out!
Member:
quatro

Posted on Saturday, May 12, 2007 - 11:29 pm:

Nothing to offer, just will send prayers and good thoughts your way.
Suz
New Member:
estrella

Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 11:52 am:

Good morning,

Yesterday from about 4:00 pm until 10:00 pm she stood square for the 1st time since this started and slept. All four feet planted. Food sat in front of her. I left her alone. Then at 10:00 I held out food, I saw those bright eyes I have seen for 27 years. She grabbed the food from me, and then she ate on her own. Still un-coordinated in her walk, but improved from the day before.

This morning, I heard the familiar knicker. She gave me a pretty bad time about her meds, and for the 1st time in about 10 days, responded to a scratch behind the ear. I brushed her and she liked it. Her skin now twitches normally when she thinks she has a fly on her.

She was biting the bars, like she always did, anxious to come out. She came out of her stall, carefully, but definitely could control her legs.

This is how it went, started noticing subtle changes on the 5th, everyday brought something new, progressed to the worst on Friday, it looked like she was going to fall down, her rear seemed pretty weak. I did not think we would make it to today and prepared myself.

Right now she is scarfing her hay, and when you look at her, someone's definitely home.

I have no idea now what this is, my heart of hearts, says virus. I don't know which one thing helped. She has had all her shots, but I wonder if it's like for us, we can get a flu shot, but it doesn't mean we won't get the flu, just not as bad. Or she's doing better because of all of those prayers.

But we are definitely going the right direction. I hold my breath, watch and wait.
Member:
sunny66

Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 12:37 pm:

Wow! What an ordeal... She sounds like an absolute gem :-) I do hope she continues to improve! I am sending positive healing thoughts to your mare, and strength and peace to you.
Member:
mcbizz

Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 1:24 pm:

Sandra, that is such promising news...I am so glad to hear there is hope for more years ahead for your mare. Losing one that is such a big part of your life can be incredibly devastating.
Happy Mom's Day to you and keep us posted!
Member:
estrella

Posted on Sunday, May 13, 2007 - 7:16 pm:

Hi Everyone,

She is still continuing to improve..I even got a whinnie at lunch time. I am trying to not get that "Yippee" feeling yet..but she's using her entire pen, walking around, slowly, but walking and drinking a whole bunch of water, not excessive, but what I would expect to see on a hot day.

But this is scary this AM my girlfriend called to let me know a Morgan mare, 13 years, lives 2 blocks away, same symptoms, except progressed much more quickly. I wonder if we did a little better because when I first saw something wrong, my girlfriend said Banamine, call vet. Same vet is treating that mare also, he called today and said he would be here tomorrow in the AM.

That mare was down in her stall also, so guess that makes the she's old and layed down and couldn't get back up, now she's just sore thing less likely..she was sore before she even before that day.

She said it's the same thing..oh back legs hurt, no front, no it's the neck, no back, all 4 legs now. OK she's tying up, what tying up really is, I don't know..sounded reasonable. Except I read it's typically horses that work hard, well her idea of a hard work out these days is a trip to the park, play in the arena, a bath then lunch. Seems more like a day at the spa to me.

Happy Mom's day to everyone!! I'm still thinking it's the well wishes and prayers, it was the group hug that made it better
Member:
paul303

Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 12:00 am:

There's a lot of folks here who are holding their breath, watching and waiting...'til you get to that "Yippee".
Member:
mrose

Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 11:14 am:

I've been away for a few days and am just not reading all this. I'm following with great interest. Your mare is the same age as my favorite old girl and when reading your words I just automatically personalize and see my mares face. I know how I would be feeling if this was happening to her. I'm so glad your mare is doing better, and will be very interested in further developments and anything else you find out about this.

Welcome to HA, btw. It's a great area. There are a lot of wonderful, knowledgeable people here that care about their animals and have a lot of good advice.
Member:
boomer

Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 1:57 pm:

I just read all of this, I am so happy things are seeming to turn around for you. Whatever this was, it was horrible. Weird too. Welcome to this wonderful site! I wouldn't be without it myself!
Member:
qh4me

Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 3:28 pm:

Hi,
Before I read the final post about another horse with the same symptoms, I was wondering if your mare possibly strained her neck when rolling or something. Now that there is another horse down with similar issues, it seems less likely.

The reason I was wondering about the neck, is that when my gelding (who has since been diagnosed with wobblers -so will not be the same case as yours) fell in his stall and showed similar symptoms as you describe. In the beginning before his diagnosis, the vets were contributing his ataxia and such to his stiff neck. They thought that he somehow traumatized his neck. His head hung on the ground, he was not interested in food, would hold out his front feet as if he didn't know where to place it. When the vet came out to check, he could barely bend his neck to the left or right. Banamine relieved his symptoms for the time being, then he would revert back.
They took blood to measure his muscle enzymes which I believe was to see if he had pulled muscles. Did your vet check her muscle enzymes?

I have been told by my vet that a horse utilizes his neck significantly in order for him to get up. Would it be possible that due to severe neck stiffness and her age contributing a little., this was the reason she wasn't able to get up?

Would the reason she wasn't interested in food was because it was to uncomfortable to eat off the ground?

What about hanging a hay net elevated to make it at a more comfortable level for her to eat?
That is what they suggested for my gelding, and the minute I put a hay net, he gobbled down his food. Just a thought!

Best of luck with your beloved mare, and I hope she continues to get better!
Member:
estrella

Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 4:11 pm:

Hi my friends,

This morning brought heartbreaking changes, she is becoming weak in the rear, and was scared to move. The vet arrived and he said it looks like anything from a virus to neurological (sp?), exactly like DrO said.

I told him I did not want to keep her going just so I could be happy. He asked to try a DMSO IV and Sterioids, just in-case the outside change she has pinched or something in her back.

Either way, I want you to know I will not continue on with treatments. Her quality of life like you already know, must be there.

When she got the IV, she put her head in my arms and I know she is saying goodbye.

So I have cancelled a work trip. I was there when she came in, I will be there for her when she leaves me. She has taught me so many things in 27 years, and now she teaches me one more.
Member:
juliem

Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 4:32 pm:

So sorry for you Estrella. I lost my "horse of a lifetime" the end of March and can certainly understand what you are going through. So glad you will be with her. Wishing for you and her, through my tears, an easy passing. Julie
Member:
boomer

Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 4:41 pm:

Oh, Sandra I am so so sorry. I lost my beloved TB Boomer last July from a sudden incurable sickness. I know the agony you must feel and want you to know I will be thinking of you both and sending my kindest regards. I just feel terrible for you. It sounds though like she had a wonderful 27 years with someone who loved her dearly. That part is wonderful. We are here for you. - Trish.
Member:
annes

Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 5:05 pm:

Sandra, I am thinking of you and Estrella. I am so sorry...

Ann
Member:
leilani

Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 6:14 pm:

Sandra,

I am so sorry for your loss. Leilani
Member:
hwood

Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 7:43 pm:

So hard to say, "Good-bye," and so noble to be there when the good-bye comes.
You will have no regrets, Sandra, for you have done your best, loved with a deep love, and are facing what is normal . . . for death is part of life here on earth. Never easy; always guaranteed. Hugs to you. Maybe save some of her tail hairs and make a braid to frame your favorite photo.
Member:
shirl

Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 7:56 pm:

I follow Holly's advice. Be there, she knows you, and she knows what is happening. You won't regret it and her eyes will tell you it's time to rest in peaceful pastures. Her friends are awaiting her arrival. Mourn all you must, tears cleanse the soul, and take care of you.
With love and peace,
Shirl
Member:
twhgait

Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 10:29 pm:

Sandra, Estrella sounds like she had a wonderful life and you will give her the peace of a quiet ending. She will need your strength now more then ever, and when it's over, she will walk beside you until you meet again. Losing a beloved horse is one of the hardest things to go thru. I lost my 21 month old in February. Everyday I think of him and everyday I remember a moment of our 21 months together. Take it one day at a time.
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 10:44 pm:

Oh Sandra, I am so sorry. I just lost my 2 year old filly to wobbler's synDrOme also. As I read your description of her syptoms hair stood up on my neck.
One of the amazing things about your mare is that she lived a healthy life till it was her time. Thats a wonderful testimony to your care. Be strong and if you need us we'll be here.
Sincerely, leslie

Ps. Dont worry my Keira will meet her at the pearly gates with a carrot and a smile.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 11:02 pm:

Sandra, I'm so sorry. I can only echo what the others have said; your care for her must have been excellent for her to have lived so well for so long, and I'm sure the bond the two of you shared was strong. It says a lot that you were willing to take care of her last need. I think it's the most difficult thing we have to do for our animal friends, and yet the most responsible. You will always miss her; I still miss my first Arab that died at age 30 more than 16 yrs ago. He will always hold a special place in my heart. We have lost several of our old brood mares over the last few years, and one sweet gelding. Many of these I foaled out and had all their lives. When they go, they each leave a hole in your heart, but as Holly said, death is a part of life and we must accept it as such.

Have a good cry, go for a walk, hug your other animals if you have them, and be grateful for the privilege of having Estrella share your life for so long.
Member:
juliem

Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 12:37 am:

Sandra, sorry I confused the names in my earlier post. Just wanted to add one thing my vet said to me after I lost my horse at 16 to a tortion. He told me to keep in mind that my gelding had 16 great years and only one really bad day. That's not a bad ratio. Julie
Member:
paul303

Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 12:53 am:

The part of your life that you and Estrella shared will exist forever. How lucky we all are to have had our friends for however long we get. The memories those friends created will enrich us for the rest of our lives.

And Sandra? On any clear night, you can go outside and look up and see your "star".
Member:
frances

Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 9:13 am:

So very sorry, Sandra, to hear that Estrella's condition has worsened and you're facing the final farewell. I'm hoping against hope that the vet's "outside chance" action will in fact turn her around, but if not I salute you for your decision to ease her as gently as possible out of her suffering, and to be with her as she goes, just as you have been through all the good times.

Thinking of you ...
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 9:30 am:

Estrella, my condolences. Though certainly neurological the exact disease is hard to pin down from the symptoms but a traumatic impingement of the spinal cord in the neck area is consistent with everything above.
DrO
Member:
estrella

Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 10:26 am:

Good morning

I thought I would be the brave one that would be by her side when her time came, it turned out she was the one that made it easier for me.

We fretted about how would we know when it was time? She was eating, drinking, the stager got a little better, I mean a little better, it could have been only in our minds.

Of course I checked on her often, she was OK and didn't look like she was in distress.

I had just checked on her, 20 minutes later, she was laying down in her run. She was peaceful, and relaxed. We called the vet, he came right away...it seemed as if she was just sleeping, I got to pet her and talk to her, she never thrashed, she was just tired. He gave her the drugs, she never tried to get up, she went peaceful.

I am so fortunate to have found this web site, if it wasn't for her I wouldn't have. I have never been through this, I guess I am lucky and she is the first horse in 27 years I have ever lost. I guess that in it's self is a blessing.

I thank you all for guiding and helping me through it. The kind words helped me get through this. I read the stories of horses you have all lost that were just as dear to you as Estrella was to me. I'm sure when you read the first post, most already knew what the end would be. Understanding that frantic attempt to save her, to make it better.

Now I will be the one that will answer the post for someone that is heading down this path, I hope I have the words of wisdom that you all have had.

She was my friend, I will miss her. My world will be different now. For 27 years I have cared and loved her, and she for me.

I can't believe through the tears, I told myself, do the right thing when you have to...but she did this for me. I always questioned about our bond, did I look our for her, or was it always she looked out for me? I think this morning I know, in the end, she looked out for me.

Thank you all, I will keep in touch, and be there to help someone like me.
Member:
karent

Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 11:02 am:

Very nice words Sandra, she knew it was time to go. You had 27 years with this amazing mare, what a wonderful relationship and bond you two shared. Alot of good memories.....
Member:
gaelwolf

Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 11:13 am:

When we lost our young filly, Wonder, we were offered the story of Rainbow Bridge. I put together a version of that with her picture. You can see it at:

https://www.gaelwolf.com/wonder.html

Others we've forwarded the link to when they have lost their four-foot friends have told us that it helps a bit.
Member:
canter

Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 11:19 am:

Sandra,
I'm so sorry for your loss. I hope you are comforted knowing that she died with dignity and in peace.

Fran
Member:
qh4me

Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 11:32 am:

Sandra,
Sending you my condolances on the loss of your beloved mare. She was so fortunate to have you in her life and you in hers.

You have many great friends here at HA that have been through this very same thing.

Take care, and remember all the great times you and Estrella shared!
Member:
zarr

Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 12:34 pm:

Tears of joy bring us into this life, tears of sorrow are there when we leave but it is what transpires between these two events that we measure our lives by...it seems as if you and Estrella gave each other 27 wonderful years ! For your lost I am sad but for the lifetime you gave each other, WOW and Congratulations! Cindy
Member:
sonoita

Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 2:28 pm:

Look up the poem "Dont't Cry For the Horses"
You will love it.
'The Gift" is another good one.
Member:
erika

Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 2:49 pm:

Sandra, so sorry. Lucky both of you to have had each other for so long.. I'm glad Estrella (such a pretty name--"Star", right?) had a peaceful passing. I will think of both of you when I see the first star tonight.
Member:
image

Posted on Tuesday, May 15, 2007 - 5:42 pm:

A long life well lived and well loved! She lives on in your heart and memories! What an awesome thing to know such love!

Thinking of you
Charlayne
Member:
paardex

Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 6:41 am:

Sandra it must be very hard for you. On the other hand it seems like your horse had a very good life and you've had a very good friend in her for a long time.
Jos
Member:
lilo

Posted on Wednesday, May 16, 2007 - 9:33 am:

My condolences. Hopefully the good memories of a long time spent together will help you. Lilo
Member:
estrella

Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 5:17 pm:

Hi Everyone,

I am doing OK, thank you for all of the nice posts, the helped me get through this very tough time. The web links to poems also.

I still have moments and I am sure I will for a while. I had no idea horses mourn, but my big TB Hunter, is very sad and keeps looking in her box stall. Luckily, we had bought a new QH Gelding, he's 3 and a pest. He seems to be keeping him company, or a least bugging him enough to keep his mind occupied.

Yesterday I went to Cal Poly and visited the babies, it helped me to remember the good times, where she and I began. That attitude, watching them running and bucking, remembering when I would rub her, she would get excited and then kick me..ouch, yea I learned about that.

A couple of contacts that sure helped me should anyone else you know has to go through this. I live in SoCal.

There is a wonderful woman, she is very kind and understanding. She has property that she is licensed to bury livestock. You can't go see them, which for me is OK. She will make arrangements for cremation also. She even offered to be here when they put her down, which I didn't need. She said she started doing this 25 years ago when she had a similar situation. She said it is sacred ground and she is very protective of it. She has 5 of her own horses there, price is very reasonable, about $100.00 more than the "regular" way.

A horse ambulance service, I did not need him, because we weren't in that situation. What he offers is a way to transport a horse that can not stand in the trailer. He has a hoist and sling. My girlfriend said she used him and he got to her place within the hour. She said the price is very reasonable.

I am not sure the protocol of posting the numbers and not sure if I am allowed to, so let me know and I'll send the information.
Member:
muffi

Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 4:26 pm:

Sandra - sorry about Estrella - what a beautiful story. I have only lost one pet in my life that I was ever close to - a dog. So Happily I can say I dont; know what you are going thru. but can imagine how your heart feels. I don't even know you or your horse adn I cried when I read she didnt make it. THe whole horse thing is new to me so I have been fortunate to have healthy and bouncy boys in the back right now. Bless you and take care - stay with HA - these peoples's posts are worth their weight in Email....
Member:
majoda92

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 24, 2007 - 7:35 pm:

I am sitting here at my computer in tears. My beloved mare, Jackie,19 years old, 16 of those years with me, is experiencing similar symptoms of Estrella. Sat. afternoon, so very suddenly, she showed signs of loss of balance, eyes darting back and forth and tremors. I couldn't believe what I was seeing! We had almost lost her exactly 1 year prior to the hour from a horrible leg injury. I was pacing waiting for the vet exactly one year after the life threatening injury, wondering what the heck was going on. While we waited for the vet, Jackie had a seizure. It lasted about 30 or 40 seconds and then passed. When the vet arrived, she actually looked a little better. Her eyes were focused, but she was still very wobbly. At first glance, it seemed she might have a neck or spinal trauma. The vet gave her IV Bute and DMSO. In the morning, both eyes were drifting and her balance was still very off, back and front. The vet came back out and suspected that it might be a stroke. Since Jackie was still eating, drinking and getting around ok, we decided to continue with the anti-inflammatories and see what happens. Hey, she really shouldn't have survived last years injury, so maybe we shouldn't count her out. Yesterday and most of today, she was showing signs of improvement. Tonight,she had an abrasion above her eye and on her shoulder, so I am sure she must have fallen. She is out with another old mare and gelding. Sometimes the gelding will try to chase her from a pile of hay. I think that might have made her fall, so I isolated her in the round pen where she can still be next to her buddies but not be chased. We are still waiting for the blood work to come back to rule out the usual suspects.
I know that there is an abundance of power in prayer, and I know that all of you on this site are a source of very powerful healing for our equine companions, so I am asking, no, I don't even need to ask, I know that all of you will help Jackie with your prayers and healing thoughts. If it is time for her to go, I will feel your sympathy and compassion, and know that I am not alone.
love, peace and happiness
Diane
Member:
suzym

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 24, 2007 - 8:50 pm:

You are certainly not alone, Diane. Nor you, Sandra. I've been there too. In 2002 I lost a 24 year old Morgan gelding that had been my partner and best friend for 20 years. At least I was with him at the end. He was the first horse I'd lost, and I was utterly devastated.

I will be thinking of both of you - have no doubt about that. And, Diane, please keep us posted. The people here helped me so much when I lost my beloved DJ. We will be here for you too.

God bless,

Suzy
Member:
erika

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 24, 2007 - 8:52 pm:

Dear Diane, I looked at your profile and your webpage to find Jackie. "Sweetness Counts" says it all, doesn't it?
You are certainly in my prayers! Hope you find some answers and solutions soon. You obviously care deeply for her and she is lucky to have you through her ordeal.
Wishing you a quick remedy.
Erika
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 24, 2007 - 9:13 pm:

I second what suzanne and Erika say. my thoughts and prayers for you and Jackie.
Leslie
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 24, 2007 - 9:26 pm:

Diane, I never know what to say when someone is going thru this. I know I can't stand it when one of mine are sick. Jackie will be in my prayers tonight. I hope the vet finds the problem and can remedy it.
Member:
estrella

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 24, 2007 - 10:14 pm:

Diane I am so sorry, I am praying for Jackie. This is indeed a wonderful site and if there's a place that exhibits the goodness in people, this is it.

It sounds real similar to what happened to us. The regrets I have are that I wish the vet would have tested for a virus. I thought he had, but it was later explained that they needed to do a different type of draw.

It sounds like your vet is taking it much more seriously than my vet did. In his defense, he had know her all 27 years also and didn't want to believe it either. He was very emotional when he left, pretty uncommon for a guy that has seen so much.

I would have made sure a virus was ruled out. I will never know. Dr. O had suggestions above, but I'll let him speak to it. My vet didn't see the need, he was still thinking joints. Regrets are that I should have pushed.

I own Great Danes and am very good at navigating through the small animal vets. Saved alot of lives by doing it. I have an 11 year old now, he's a bigger pain in the rear than my younger dogs.

I have since befriended an equine vet, and like all vets will not do the "he's wrong", thing. I respect that. In her way she explained like the very young the old don't come back and respond quickly. That the treatment needs to begin immediately. It sounds like that has begun for your Jackie. She would have done things a little different, but that the outcome would have probably been the same.

She felt that she should have been checked for rabies, we live at 2500' at the base of the mountain. Coyotes, Bob Cat, Mountain Lion, etc. with all the mountain creatures.

I believe an open dialog with the vet is an absolute. I guess everyone experiences the would have, should have. But at 27 years, the day was going to come, I just wish I knew why. I spent the following months afraid my other horses would come down with it, thrown out hay. Scrubbed waterers. Cut down shrubs that were suspect. I would not have had to go through this if I had some idea as to why.

The vet bill was huge, it would have been the same price if I had taken her to the equine clinic. I had thought that I should have taken her to the clinic. But in retro, she was home and comfortable with the ones that loved her.

Please keep us posted, fight as hard as possible, be strong for her. I told my friend I think I let her down, she said "no you didn't you called the vet" I understand the 27 thing, but 16 seams too young to me.
Member:
dsibley

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 24, 2007 - 10:36 pm:

Just re-joined HA recently...hiatus due to a huge building project. My condolences to Sandra on the loss of her 'angel', and pray for Diane's baby as well. I lost a dear doggie companion last year, and my heart still bleeds for him. God bless both of you and know I am praying for you both,
Member:
frances

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 25, 2007 - 1:16 am:

So very sorry Diane, and I hope so much that Jackie pulls through.

Thinking of you both.
Member:
canter

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 25, 2007 - 7:53 am:

Diane, Sending you and Jackie healing thoughts. I hope you find answers and a positive outcome.
Member:
lilo

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 25, 2007 - 10:20 am:

Dear Diane - I want to add good wishes and send healing thoughts as well. Hopefully your mare can be helped!
Lilo
Member:
twhgait

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 25, 2007 - 10:21 am:

Sandra and Diane, what wonderful souls you are! Being strong when your equine partner is not is probably the hardest thing. It's been the hardest thing I've ever done in my life so far. I can relate at the deepest level.

Diane, I hope everything works out!
Member:
annes

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 25, 2007 - 10:38 am:

Diane, Please know I am thinking of you and sending healing prayers for Jackie.
Ann
Member:
hwood

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 25, 2007 - 10:39 am:

Diane, you are in a hard place right now. I wish you strength and courage and the support of friends and family no matter what the outcome.
Member:
majoda92

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 25, 2007 - 7:57 pm:

Hi everyone! Thanks so much for your outpouring of love and support. It really means so much to me. It must be working because today turned up a new diagnosis for "Ms.J"! A different vet from the same team of vets we use came today. She noticed that J has a very definite head tilt to the left and a strong drift to the left when she walks. She had seen this same behavior in a couple of other horses who were diagnosed with... Stylohyoid osteopathy (whew!what a mouthful!) It has to do with the 5 bones which are around the trachea that sometimes get some kind of lumps on them which press on the cranial nerves. ( Am I describing that correctly, Dr.O?) Sometimes it can be treated with antibiotics with good results. Sometimes it requires surgery. Anyway, I related to this vet that Jackie had a pretty serious incidence of "choke" just a few weeks ago. I was away at the time and the poor girl who was taking care of the horses called me to let me know what happened. Another boarder who was there was able to help clear the obstruction, and she seemed fine. We didn't even call the vet, thinking everything was ok. Now we are wondering if there might be some correlation between the choke and this new condition she has. At any rate, we are going to have the vet do an endoscopy to check for the obstruction. I am feeling very optimistic that we can resolve Jackies problem with the antibiotics. Please keep sending us your healing thoughts!! Diane
Member:
mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 25, 2007 - 10:57 pm:

Diane, I am so glad there is a reason and something that can be treated! I also have a 27 yr. old mare that I love dearly, so I've been following your posts with special empathy. I wish you and "Ms.J." all the best and a swift recovery. I'll tell my own "Ms. Piggy" to send good thoughts. Please keep us posted.
Member:
suzym

Posted on Thursday, Jul 26, 2007 - 11:25 am:

I'm so glad! Be sure to keep us posted on her progress!

Suzy
Member:
majoda92

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 31, 2007 - 7:47 am:

Hello friends
Yesterday was the day scheduled to do the endoscopy on Jackie. All weekend I had the strong feeling that I should just cancel the appt. because Jackie seemed to be improving daily. I had started her on the antibiotics last Friday and she is still on the Bute. I planned to discuss with the vet whether we should actually do the endoscopy for fear that she was still too unstable to sedate. Unfortunately, I got stuck in a detour on my way to meet the vet at the barn, and he had already attempted to do the procedure with the help of 2 friends of mine. When I walked in the barn Jackie was upside down on the cement aisle, cast against the wall. I helped her back up. Boy, was she shaken! So were we all. I am just so upset that she had to go through that for nothing. Now she has abrasions above her eye, on her shoulder and both hocks, and probably an even bigger headache than she already had. Anyway, I am going to keep praying that she can recover with the regimen of antibiotics and bute. She is truly a fighter (which has cost a fortune in vet bills!) Thanks again for all of your thoughts and prayers. I will continue to post her progress.
Diane
Member:
zarr

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 31, 2007 - 11:26 am:

The extreme highs and lows of owning horses is not for the faint of heart. So sorry for you and your mare ! What an ordeal for both of you! Sometimes when things have gotten really rough I've gone out and massaged / loved on who ever needed it and I usually find that was me! It helps both of us. Sounds like progress is being made so more fingers crossed and prayers said ... Cindy
Member:
frances

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 1, 2007 - 10:53 am:

Oh no, what an awful shock for you (and Jackie). Poor things! You don't mention whether the endoscopy showed an obstruction, or didn't the vet manage to carry it out?
Member:
majoda92

Posted on Saturday, Aug 4, 2007 - 6:43 pm:

Hello friends
My girl continues to amaze me! In spite of the failed attempt at the endoscopy, Jackie seems to get better every day. I believe there are powers working in her favor that are so mysterious and unexplainable! I got a call from an old friend that used to ride with me several years ago. Tina called out of the blue the other day to tell me she had a dream about Jackie!! When she heard what was going on, she knew she had to come and see her. Tina is a Reiki practitioner, and she asked if she could use some healing reiki work on her. Of course, I said yes!! Tina spent about 45 minutes with her. She felt that there was some trauma to her neck, just behind the poll. She showed me how to use my hands to feel the energy in her neck. J was very receptive to this attention. Anyway, I am very hopeful that J is going to pull through this latest catastrophe! I guess she just doesn't ever want to see me get out of debt! Thanks again for all of your healing thoughts and prayers!
Diane
Member:
mrose

Posted on Saturday, Aug 4, 2007 - 7:35 pm:

I'm so glad you posted and that your mare is doing better! Every time I look at my mare I wonder how Jackie is doing. These old mares can be pretty tough and amazing! Give her a hug for me. The good thought continue her way.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Friday, Aug 24, 2007 - 1:12 am:

How is Jackie doing?
Member:
octavius

Posted on Friday, Aug 24, 2007 - 2:10 pm:

I'm curious also as to how Jackie is doing. This past winter I almost lost my beloved horse Octavius (25) to a strangulating lipoma that had symptoms very similar to what is being described here. Over the course of his illness, surgery, and recovery I learned a few really valuable lessons, especially if you are dealing with an older horse. First and most important - know your horse. Look at them closely every single day, check their temperature, pulse and respiration. Keep a journal with notes as to how much water they are drinking, hay and feed they are eating. Not just what you put in their stall but how much they actually consume. If your horse is in a stall part of the day, know how much manure he normally produces. Is he alert and at the door when you approach his stall. If you chart his normal behavior closely, as soon as one thing is off you will have your first clue that something could be going on. With horses everything happens quickly and horses are very brave; they do not feel pain in the same way we do so something can be brewing for a while before alarming symptoms present themselves. The second thing is no matter how much you love your vet, and God knows I love mine, do not hesitate to get your horse to an equine clinic. I can not stress this enough. Know where the closest one is, have their number on hand, and get there ASAP. My horse is alive today because I overrode my vet's advice to put my horse down and I got him to New Bolton in PA. No matter how sick your horse is if you feel in your heart that he is still fighting to live, then fight along with him. You owe him that. Octavius was as close to death as a horse can get and he went through two surgeries and has recovered beautifully. He looks wonderful and we've just spent the best summer of our lives together.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Friday, Aug 24, 2007 - 2:56 pm:

Denise, excellent advice for all horses, but especially the very old and very young. One of my old girls is with me still because I looked at her and just had a feeling something wasn't right. Know your horses.

btw..did Octavius used to be on the open jumping circuit?
Member:
octavius

Posted on Friday, Aug 24, 2007 - 3:48 pm:

Octavius and I evented until he was 16 and tore his check ligament playing in the field with his friends. I brought him back over a 2 year period from that injury and since then we've been out and about mostly trail riding, but also competing in hunter paces and small dressage shows, having fun, fun and more fun. He's a wonderful, honest, intelligent horse with a wicked sense of humor.
Member:
estrella

Posted on Friday, Aug 24, 2007 - 6:23 pm:

Hi Denise,

I couldn't agree more. I wish I would have loaded Estrella in the trailer and taken her to the vet clinic. I was afraid she would go down in the trailer and hurt herself. After what happened to us, I found someone that has a special trailer to get it done. I guess it has slings and hoist. I told a friend of mine who is an equine vet, she became a friend after this all happened, I told her I feel like I let her down, she replied that I didn't because I called the vet. But I will always have that feeling. I know not every horse gets to live to their 30's. But she was just so absolutely healthy, shiny coat, dappled under her chestnut, ate well, perfect weight, manure normal. Very fiesty. Up to date on her shots...I can tell you I will never let it go that way again. She went to the equine clinic for colic surgery, I found out that people often bring there horses there for routine care. It's not more expensive, most of it is cheaper. The bill only gets big for something major.
Estrella's symptoms happened so suddenly, she fought so hard. Like I said, never again. P.S. I absolutely hate DMSO...is this stuff a good thing? She looked so miserable when he IV'd her, the smell is still here...it breaks my heart...
you know when she was on the ground on her side, eyes half shut, her head in my lap, the vet asked "do you want to try to get her up?" She never, ever laid down like that..oh yea let's get her up so she can fall and break a leg...make her last moments filled with pain...now that was a good idea. Sorry, I just finally had to vent. They say grieving goes from sorrow, to anger, then back to less sorrow. I guess I'm in the angry phase. OK, I feel a little better now.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Friday, Aug 24, 2007 - 8:19 pm:

So sorry to hear or your struggles, but you did try to do the best that you could based upon what you believed to be competent advice.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Saturday, Aug 25, 2007 - 12:09 am:

Denise, did you ever compete in the west, or only in the eastern half of the country? Do you have any pictures of Octavius? What breed is he? Was he always a gelding? I know/know of a couple of well know horses with that name and am wondering if one of them is yours.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Saturday, Aug 25, 2007 - 12:18 am:

Norman, I enjoyed your version of the Rainbow Bridge and your website. For some reason I couldn't get the homepage but was able to see the rest of it. I've got to go back and read about the wolf and horse rescue work, both of which I'm interested in.


Estrella99, after re-reading about your mare I had to go out and hug my old girl and spend a little time under the stars with her. We just stood there quietly and enjoyed each others company and the warm summer evening. I am reminded that I need to make more time to spend with her each day because our time together is limited.
Member:
153337

Posted on Monday, Aug 27, 2007 - 7:55 am:

So sorry for all you've been through Sandra, it can be very difficult to look back and say what if??? I bought a pony that was supposed to have been due anytime, she had some very strange things going on, seemed like blood sugar imbalances, plus loose stools with lots of sand in it, apparently they kept her on sand and didn't feed much. After the long awaited time, a beautiful filly was born that had neurologic problems. I had the vet out and had to put her down. The vet examined the placenta and found huge patches of brown - she said there was no circulation in those areas and there were nodules throughout - that seemed like sand. I've been through a lot but watching that filly was one of the toughest things. Many what ifs went on in my head for quite some time, plus some anger at the people who owned her before and didn't take care of her. On another note the DMSO I love the stuff, it works great for my horses legs after a tough workout, I do not use it all the time, but when things are stressed. Also if you use it immediately after pulling or stressing a muscle it can stop the damage and help tissue repair. I've used it on shin splints when I used to run, and any pulled muscles on the kids and hubby. Also my local vet used it IV on some horses with WNV a few years ago and the horses he treated survived and thrived. I'm sure he did other stuff, too. It is used IV in humans with bladder conditions, like interstitial cystitis.
Member:
octavius

Posted on Monday, Aug 27, 2007 - 1:25 pm:

Sara - Octavius and I competed in the mid-atlantic region. He's anglo arab and has always been a gelding. Attached is a picture from a competition at Fair Hill in Maryland. We are waiting to start the show jumping phase and I'm looking over at the course. It's always been a true partnership with Octavius. He's so comical because he has an opinion on everything, from what time of the day he feels like riding to what trail we go out on. A few years ago I came across a poster of a rider and horse cresting a hill with the following caption that says it all:

No locker room speeches
No play books
No contracts or free agents
Not even a work spoken between teammates
Doesn't that make it the
greatest of all team sports?

octavius
Member:
octavius

Posted on Monday, Aug 27, 2007 - 2:37 pm:

Estrella - Your post from Friday broke my heart. I am so sorry. It sounds like both you and your vet did everything possible. Octavius had 2 DMSO IV treatments while at New Bolton. I agree the smell is horrible and I was concerned myself because on those days he seemed miserable too.

You are absolutely correct that the cost of an equine clinic can actually be cheaper. While at New Bolton I got to meet a lot of other owners and most trailer in as soon as they suspect colic, etc. rather than waiting for their vet.

My horse was at New Bolton the same time as Barbaro. I got to see him on his way to have his cast changed for the very last time. Octavius has no value to anyone other than myself, but he, along with every other animal there, was given the exact same level of care as Barbaro.

I was very, very lucky and I will never forget that. I can't tell you how much I look forward to and cherish the time I now spend with Octavius. He on the other hand is starting to suspect this is a little too much togetherness.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Monday, Aug 27, 2007 - 7:03 pm:

Denise, thanks for posting the picture! You both look great! The Octavius I am thinking of was a WB I think and competed in Open Jumping. There was a fairly well known Arab stallion by that name also. The quote, btw, is right on the mark.

I wish good horse clinics/teaching hospitals etc. were within everyone's reach. I know I have two horse that I would have lost if I hadn't been able to get them to one. From where I am, though, it is a 10 hr. drive to the nearest good vet clinic. The next best, which is a very good repro clinic, is 4 hrs. away. Sometimes you have to weigh the misery the horse will be in for such a long haul against taking your chances with your local vet who probably is limited in what equipment he has if not experience. It isn't always easy to decide if your horse's chances are enough better at a large facility to risk the travel. There are times when a skilled local vet can do as much as any clinic, or when the horse's chances are better with maybe less skilled but more immediate treatment. We all just have to do the best we can for our animals with the resources we have available and with what seems in the horse's best interest at the time.

IMO a good local vet will tell you when your horse should go to a clinic or when he can't do anymore for your horse, and will tell you in a timely enough fashion that you can still get the animal to a clinic if it's at all possible.
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