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  Discussion on Chronic Renal Disease Management
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New Member:
Slytwink

Posted on Saturday, Jun 21, 2003 - 1:55 pm:

i also have a mare who has been in renal failure for over a year and a half. we have her on many herbal supplements and a homepathic remedy called albumonheel. with her bun and creatan numbers, our regular vet only gave her a few months to live. the vet giving me the homepathic remedy and all the supplements for her immune system is still optimistic about her life expectancy. we watch her closely and change things up as needed. we are looking now for a low protein diet that she will eat as she doesnt like just oats and we add many things to her feed that she needs. does anyone know of a low protein, low phosphorus feed that is tastes good. she has always been a picky eater but an easy keeper. if anyone is interested in all the supplements and albumonnheel amts etc, let me know and i will give specifics. any other advice for her would be welcome as she has been my baby for many years. she is 17 years old now.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Jun 22, 2003 - 10:20 am:

As is our standard policy, we will note that the advisory staff (mainly me) at Horseadvice.com does not believe homeopathic remedies are a valid treatment regimen. Lack of any known physical, chemical, or biological mechanism by which they can act, combined with lack of good scientific proof of an effect, lead us to this policy.

I would interested in knowing if there was any other basis for the diagnosis and prognosis Jeri. You cannot accurately diagnose the cause and then prognose the future of a chronic kidney disease from the laboratory values alone: they do not tell you whether a disease will continue to get progressivley worse.
DrO
Member:
Slytwink

Posted on Saturday, Jul 12, 2003 - 12:17 pm:

dr o, sorry i have been so long to respond. many things happening. anyway, on the diagnosis, i am not sure what you are asking. her bun and creatin numbers were what was used to diagnose kidney failure. she goes up and down in weight and we continue to put her on and off the homeopthic remedies which always gives her a boost and she gains weight again. this has been going on for over a year along with many added supplements to boost her digestion.
could you tell me what other tests you would recommend for her? our vet is an equine specialist and has been in contact with A&M University on sly's condition. we assume her prognoses is that the disease will continue to get worse since she continues to go up and down and her bun and creatin numbers continue to stay where they are:on 1-30-02 bun--6.3 and creatin--76
on 3-20-02 -- bun--7.9 and creatin--88.5.
what do you recommend i do? i love this horse. she is 17 years old. what tests should i have and why. please help. thanks, jeri
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Jul 13, 2003 - 12:25 am:

While BUN and Cr can be used to detect kidney failure it does not give you the reason (diagnosis). Without knowing the diagnosis accurate prognosis is difficult and based simply on statistical data: what happens most frequently. For instance what if your kidney disease is due to a one time insult that left the kidney partially damaged but there is no ongoing damage or the continuing damage is very slow. A horse like this may live out a fairly normal life span with some special care. On the other hand if you have an active ongoing disorder you might have only a few days, months, or years depending on the rate of degeneration.

Ultrasound may be helpful. It is not inconceivable a treatable disease, say bilateral kidney stones, might not be found. As you can imagine cost and risk would be high for such a surgery on a horse with kidney disease. The best way to get a handle on the cause is through a procedure with a fairly high rate of complication: ultrasound guided biopsy.

The next tests depend on your resources and goals. Do to expensense and goals I must say I do not get past the point you are at. When we return from vacation I will get an article up on chronic kidney disease and hope that you will find more useful informaiton in there.
DrO
Member:
Slytwink

Posted on Monday, Jul 14, 2003 - 11:10 pm:

dr o, thanks for the info. i look forward to seeing the article on chronic kidney disease. yes, my vet did talk about the above tests also but since i could not see that there was much to gain and perhaps a lot of risk, i chose to just treat her symtoms as best we could. do you think that was the right decision. i am however, always looking for any info on managing her problem. right now, she looks good and is happy so i count my blessings. have a great vacation. jeri
Member:
Slytwink

Posted on Sunday, Sep 7, 2003 - 6:34 pm:

dr o, did you post the article on chronic kidney disease. if so where and what is it called and dated?
sly coliced late in july and was taken to a equine hospital where she stayed for a week. they ultra sounded her and saw one kidney that they said was small and misshapen. did not know why. they could not see the other kidney. the colic turned out to be an impaction colic and with lots of iv treatment, she recovered. her bun and creatin are back to what is normal for her. no worse than before the colic. we are now trying to get weight back on her and she is gradually gaining and is starting to feel like herself again. it is very hot here in texas so we are now keeping her in during the day and have a mister on her. she goes out at nite. she is eating well and doing well but i am of course concerned about her future so any help you may have is appreciated. thanks, jeri
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 9, 2003 - 8:47 am:

Hello Jeri,
Thanks for the reminder. The article was close to being done then got put on the back burner. I started to finish it up yesterday, then several emergencies got in the way. I should have it up by the end of the week.
DrO
Member:
Slytwink

Posted on Saturday, Sep 13, 2003 - 10:39 am:

dr o, i have written you before recently about sly, my 17 year old mare with kidney problems. she also has had swollen teats for probably 6 months now. they have milk in them. quite a lot of it. she hates us to express it but i am not sure if its because it hurts or she just doesnt like it. the milk is sometimes just like it should be and sometimes curdled. we have tried not expressing it for months to see if it goes away but it doesnt. it is always there. her teats are never hot but there is always milk there so they are bigger than normal. i have had two vets look at it and neither seemed too worried about it. however, it worries me since it is not normal and has been going on for so long. with her kidney problem and then colicing in july, i am of course very watchful for anything that could bring her down. do you think i should be concerned over this and do any other tests or give her anything for this or just go with the vets suggestion to just keep watching it? i mean its been like this for over 6 months. that seems like a really long time to me. also, what is your opinion on expressing it or not? one vet said to express it to relieve pressure, the other said leave it alone as expressing it will only simulate more. neither way has changed the amount there. thanks for any help you may have on this. jeri
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Sep 14, 2003 - 9:23 am:

AS long as the vets feel there is no infection present I would not express it: when you express you increase the chance of a retrograde infection up the teat canal and mastitis.

I do think the kidney disease may promote the swelling as a form of ventral edema but this is entirely secondary. The article addresses ventral edema as a sign of CRF and you can learn more about it there.
DrO
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Sep 27, 2008 - 9:27 am:

Robin I have moved all the above to the other discussion you have started on this filly.
DrO
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