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  Discussion on Hypersomnia, Narcolepsy, seizures
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New Member:
Caroler

Posted on Saturday, Oct 18, 2003 - 3:22 pm:

Hi
I have been reading with interest the articles/discussions on Narcolepsy, seizures etc. My mare has been diagnosed as having ‘Idopathic Hypersomnia’ which is very similar to Narcolepsy and so I am obviously very keen to find out any information I can about this. It appears that it is very rare here in the UK and there is hardly any info available.

Her symptoms are quite distressing when first observed and I thought at first that she was having some kind of fit, she doesn’t lie down to sleep but falls into a very deep sleep standing up. Her head and lips start to DrOop, and she tends to fall backwards and staggers sideways sometimes falling to her knees and sometimes startling herself awake. Her head lowers so much that sometimes her mouth is almost resting on the floor. In the stable she rests on the door, which I have had to pad to stop her hurting herself and quite often bangs her hips and above her eyes on the walls.

She’ll often be sleepy whilst I’m grooming her, especially her tail, and so I try to gently stimulate her by holding her head, patting and calling her but sometimes she seems completely ‘gone’ and it is quite hard to get through to her so I then have to try and walk her. Some days it seems as though she is not with us at all.

She is only 9 years old (TB x ID) and in herself is very well, although she can be quite stroppy a ‘typical chestnut mare’! I have also had to stop riding her as it became rather dangerous as although she never quite nodded off whilst I was riding I have been told by the vet that this could happen. Also, her behaviour was very unpredictable as she could be an angel, but for no apparent reason would also rear, buck and do absolutely everything you can imagine possible to try and get me off her back (never actually managed thank goodness!).

I am also wondering if she may have a problem with her ovaries. She is extremely touchy to groom on her belly/flanks area and tries to kick and bite, so much so that sometimes I have to just gently use my hands and no brush! She’s also temperamental and can be lovely one minute and vicious the next. She has often been very difficult to handle, even just leading up to the stable yard sometimes rearing and striking out at me.

I don’t know if any of these things may be linked to one another? I notice a lot of the horses on the discussions who have seizures etc are mares?

I am feeding the NAF ‘Oestress’ supplement, I like to think it does calm her slightly but its very hard to say.

Any thoughts Dr O?, anyone?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Oct 19, 2003 - 11:00 am:

Yes, Miss Carole,
your horse does sound narcoleptic and a fairly bad case of it too. No I don't think sensitivity in the belly and flank to being brushed is an indication of painful ovaries. All horses are born this way, most likely your mare has just has not been trained out of it.

I am uncertain if the bad behavior is related to the narcolepsy but certainly the confusion that must arrise from the horses uncontrollable somnolent state could lead to fear or frustration.
DrO
Member:
Imogen

Posted on Monday, Oct 20, 2003 - 3:40 am:

What managment does this horse get? Turnout, feed etc.? Does it fall asleep like this in the pasture or only in the stable?

All the best

Imogen
Member:
Caroler

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 21, 2003 - 3:01 pm:

Thanks for your reply Dr O. She just is SO sensitive in that area. I guess I'm looking at anything that might help me to help her, she must feel so awful.

I do think that certainly some of her behaviour is learned, and I know that previous owners have not been sympathetic to her problems so obviously my mare has been crying out to be heard but no-one has listened in the past and now it's the only way she knows. I am very much an advocate of natural horsemanship and treat her as gently, as I possibly can and just take time to be patient and understanding. It's not always easy!

Do you know of any research currently being done into Narcolepsy in the US?

Imogen, she is turned out during the day with a companion and is stabled at night. She is fed just forage, ie Dengie Hi-Fi (basically an alfalfa/molasses chop) and Hay. Also Blue Chip feed balancer to make sure she gets her vitamins etc and of course the NAF Oestress.

Yes, she falls asleep whilst at pasture as well as in the stable, I've had to make everywhere as safe as possible for her. I'm keeping a diary to try and see if there's any pattern, but I've only owned her for a couple of years and she was only diagnosed earlier this year, so it's too soon to tell.

Thanks for your interest.
Best wishes
Carole.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 22, 2003 - 6:40 am:

No I don't know of any ongoing research and the most recent project was a few years ago on the use of Imipramine which we present in the article.
DrO
Member:
Caroler

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 22, 2003 - 2:22 pm:

OK thanks DrO. The only treatment that my vet was advised to try (by a professor here)was to put her onto a high dose of steroids (40 tablets a day) for 2 weeks, which we did try but I can't really say that it made any difference. We have read your article though, I'm not sure if Imipramine is available here.
I was reading about human Narcolepsy today and it mentioned about people having hallucinations, bad dreams etc. Do you think that horses suffer this too?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Oct 23, 2003 - 7:16 am:

Pretty much falling asleep at inappropriate times is all I have seen.
DrO
Member:
Caroler

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 12, 2003 - 3:25 pm:

Dr O
I saw my mare this weekend falling asleep in her field (as I often have), but this time she was falling right down on all four legs and I have never seen this before. Also, at one point her head was straight out in front of her, jaw laying along the ground and she was 'gone'. Do you think this may be a sign that the condition is worsening slightly?
Also, as I've mentioned when she's not in a sleepy state she can be quite a handful (I received a real nasty kick from her at the weekend too!). I've wondered about feeding a herbal calmer to help me a little? Would this be advisable as I am obviously not wanting to give her anything to aggravate her Narcolepsy and make her even more sleepy?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Nov 13, 2003 - 7:00 am:

I don't know Carole, it always is easy to over interpret the meaning of a single event observed by chance. For each one observed you must assume there are many that are not. I have little success with herbal calmers. For suggestions on dealing with individual acts of aggression see the article, » Training Horses » Behavioral Problems » Aggression in Horses. For ideas on generally calming a high strung horse see the posts in the area, » Training Horses » Behavioral Problems » Calming the Nervous or Excited Horse.
DrO
Member:
Caroler

Posted on Saturday, Nov 15, 2003 - 6:30 am:

Thanks again for your help DrO, will keep you posted if we have any more developments.
Member:
Caroler

Posted on Friday, Jul 2, 2004 - 3:45 pm:

Hi Dr O
During the last week or two I have actually seen Maisie get down in the field and lie down, but for only a few minutes at a time. A few days ago, I was watching her and she lay down, rolled onto her side then her hind legs started thrashing, almost in a running kind of gait if you can imagine what I mean. She was facing away from me and I didn't get to see her facial expression or if she was asleep. She then got up and ran around the field and was very unsettled as if she was have an "enormous season" and was frequently passing DrOppings and wasn't interested in eating at all. It was around her feed time, but she just wasn't interested and just kept cantering around her field. You don't think this could have been an epileptic seizure or something do you?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Jul 3, 2004 - 8:14 am:

My horses do something similar Carole, it sounds more like a itch that was not satisfactorily scratched or got scratched so well she celebrated before dining.
DrO
Member:
Caroler

Posted on Saturday, Jul 3, 2004 - 9:36 am:

Oh thanks Dr O, that's quite a relief! It's hard not to panic when you see something like that for the first time.
Member:
Vaeqres

Posted on Friday, Jan 14, 2005 - 10:58 am:

Hi Miss Carole, Believe it or not, it sounds to me like your mare has stomach problem. If that is,in fact, her problem the solution is simple and relatively cheap. Anyway, it's worth a try because you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
You can dose her for 7 days with fenbendazole. That is best known as the wormers Panacur and Safeguard. I'm not suggesting that she has worms, but that these are good antacids which will relieve her stomach of pain caused by ulcers or a pre-ulcerous condition. The good news is that, if that is the problem, you see improvement in just a few days of treatment. For follow-up you can start introducing bicarbonate of soda into her diet -yep, good old Arm & Hammer! You can work her up to 2 heaping tablespoons a day for maintenance. We have thoroughbreds all around the Middleburg, VA region doing this treatment and it works gangbusters. If it turns out to be some other problem, you have done absolutely no harm and you have not invested a fortune trying! Good luck, Andrea
Member:
Eoeo

Posted on Friday, Jan 14, 2005 - 11:19 am:

If a person did this to a racehorse in training, would there be anything to test? EO
Member:
Vaeqres

Posted on Friday, Jan 14, 2005 - 2:26 pm:

Hi EO, No, absolutely not!!! Vitamins and minerals are completely natural. You must be sure not to overdose because, interestingly, horses that receive too much nutrition have the same symptoms as horses that have malnutrition. This is because some nutrients have shared receptors and the more easily absorbed nutrient will hog all the space, shutting the other out. Over time the poor horse gets so out of whack he goes downhill. That's why you need a good, broad spectrum supplement rather than several supplements: one for this, one for that - that might add up to an imbalance. (If you want actual mg. of various nutrients as a guideline for a particular horse, at a particular work level, just ask.) Because we have an Olympic champion eventer and a world class endurance champion whose horses get tested every time they show up to compete (and win), you can bet we would know if there was a even posibility of a problem.
And here's another tip. There is a product on the market produced by the Diamond Yeast Company called XP Yeast Culture. It is the top of the line, available in bags. Highly researched. Inexpensive. It provides a complete amino acid chain. I know that Lysine became the rage at one time. Problem is, without the presence of the other main amino acids, it can't work, so money wasted. The XP Culture reduces lactic acid in the body, improves digestion and relieves stress. (No, I don't own stock in the company - but that's an idea...I wish.) People tell us that it gets the jitters off their horses so that they get better concentration and performance. It does not test, either, because the amino acids are natural (as opposed to synthetic - which will test). Most farmer's co-ops can get it in for you without a problem. Usually they carry regular Diamond V Yeast, but that's not what you want. You want Diamond V XP Culture. It's a darned impressive product. Safe. A couple of ounces in their food per day. Takes 15-30 minutes to work. And, they love the flavor. Andrea
Member:
Vaeqres

Posted on Friday, Jan 14, 2005 - 2:48 pm:

EO, I answered your question based on a post in a different discussion. I'm sorry. The answer is still no. We raced a mare that got a dose of fenbendazole every time we needed to transport her to the training track or the racetrack. ( We kept her at the farm.) Anyway, she would get her knickers is such a twist every time she saw the van, that we started pre-dosing her instead of waiting until we got home. My husband's racing string got baking soda in their feed every day and he never had an ulcer problem. Of course, when not racing, they got 10 p.m. and 4 a.m. feedings. Andrea
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Jan 14, 2005 - 5:23 pm:

Horses with mild stomach aches become quiet, slightly depressed, and distracted looking not excited prancing ponies.
DrO
Member:
Eoeo

Posted on Friday, Jan 14, 2005 - 6:45 pm:

What my question was about was the baking soda. They test for some weird things and I was wondering about the baking soda. I have one we are doctoring a leg on that was on the track. She definitely exhibits signs that she has ulcers and I was going to try the baking soda. I was just wondering if it helped and we sent her back to the track if she could be on it at the track. EO
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