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Discussion on Herda
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Member:
Jeddah
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 4, 2003 - 5:10 am:
HI! Does anyone have any more information other than the UC Davis site about this skin disease? We have a mare that may be affected and the main thing right now is, how do we find out for sure??? She had a biopsy over a year ago, she was 2 at the time, and the diagnoses was probable "Hyper Elastic Skin". We are already trying to contact the vet that made the diagnoes, but he has moved.
We had planned on breeding her in a few months, even have her booked, so we are trying to find out soon.
She is Cutting bred top and bottom, and with all the new developments that makes us worry evenmore so.
We live in Europe, so unfortunaly we cant go to UC Davis...
I hope someone can shed some light on HOW to know whether she has it or not? As I understand they cant test for it yet.
Thanks!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Dec 4, 2003 - 6:47 am:
There is no reason a skin biopsy cannot be done locally. The lesions associated with Hyperelastosis cutis have been described and you can find them in the Scientific Report section of the article, Equine Diseases » Skin Diseases » Epitheliogenesis Imperfecta (EI) & Hyperelastosis Cutis.
DrO
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Dec 6, 2003 - 9:44 am:
Gosh; you learn something new every day! I've had horses my entire life and never have heard of this. Love this site.
Corine-let us know what you find out.
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Member:
Jjet
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Posted on Sunday, Dec 7, 2003 - 2:08 pm:
There was an excellent article on hyperelastosis cutis (aka HERDA, heriditary equine regional dermal asthenia) in the December issue of Performance Horse, (a cutting, reining and cowhorse magazine. You may be able to access it at their website: www.performancehorse.com, their e-mail address is letters at performance horse .com. Also, their address is Editor, Performance Horse, PO Box 7426, Eugene, OR 97401, USA.
The article states that most researchers agree that the disorder stems from a defect in the collagen of the deepest layer in the skin, as you probably already know. They say that it is an emerging disease concentrated almost exclusively in cutting-bred horses. Until recently, it was a very rare hereditary disease, but due to linebreeding, this recessive gene expression is gaining more ground. It is estimated that now about 150-250 probably have it.
Cornell University and Mississippi State are involved in the research and would be good resources. To aid in the research effort,they are seeking help from everyone in finding horses who may have the disease. Also UC Davis recently obtained a gov't grant to do a study (They're the ones campaining to change the name to HERDA). I've listed the contacts below.
DR. Ann Rashmir, DVM, MS Dip. ACVS
Associate Professor, Equine Surgery and Medicine
College of Veterinary Sciences
Mississippi State University
PO Box 1600
Mississippi State, MS 39762
tel: 662.325.3432
rashmir@cvm.msstate.edu
Dr. Nena Winand, DVM, PhD
Department of Molecular Medicine
Cornell University
Ithica, NY 14853-6401
Tel: 607.253.3608
njw2@cornell.edu
I haven't seen the UC Davis site but just for the record:
Dr. Stephen White, DVM, Dip. ACVS
Professor, Department of Medicine
School of Veterinary Medicine
University of California - Davis
Davis, CA, USA
sdwhite@ucdavis.edu
The article sheds much light on the effects of the disease and Drs. Winand and Rashmir are willing to do a pedigree risk analysis for prospective matings. The pedigree analysis is inconclusive but the knowledge of the risk factor can be helpful.
Corine, I am planning to breed two of my cutting bred mares this year, would you mind telling me which bloodlines your mare is associated with, the popular ones? One of my mares is somewhat linebred Peppy San Badger, and the other is more Doc Bar. You could email me separately if you prefer.
Best to you and your mare, it is such a thrill to own a good cutter. You must be extra sweet to her. Of course you are or you wouldn't be at this site at all!
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Member:
Jeddah
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Posted on Monday, Dec 8, 2003 - 6:45 am:
Thanks!!
Jan, the mare is not mine, I just leased her for the next breeding season, ofcourse, now we (the owner and I) are very shocked by this "news" about Herda.
We got her Biopsy results and emailed them to Dr White, but unfortunaly we still dont really know anything. He said the biopsy does not say she does have it, but neither does it rule it out. ~Sigh~
I found the article out of Performance Horse on the net, thanks.
Right now we still dont really know what to do. Other than not breed until we do know what she has.
I have noticed that yes, you can pull out her skin much more than my other horses, she has some "new" bumps on her back, but nothing that has become a sore or anything.
Jan, as I dont know if this mare is or is not affected I hate to just call out her bloodlines on the web. Dr White said he could not disclose if she was a candidate as far as het pedigree goes, that all pedigrees are confidential.
I understand ofcourse, because had he said "Yes" by looking at her pedigree she might be an affected horse, than we would of known which stallion is the probable Prominent Cutting horse, as she is only line bred to one stallion.
We indeed do love her dearly and are doing our best to find out if this is Herda or not. In the meantime if anyone has anymore information, please let us know!
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Member:
christel
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Posted on Monday, May 7, 2007 - 2:01 pm:
The herda dna test is now available. It is being done for research purposes only at this point. The recommended cost is $15.
Contact: Nena Winand, at: njw2@cornell.edu
for mailing address and instructions.
There is a herda group on yahoo, for anyone interested. There you can view a list (database) of confirmed carriers and afflicted horses.Horses listed are on a voluntary basis- or were obviously carriers due to offspring being afflicted horses.
Chris
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, May 8, 2007 - 6:51 am:
Thanks for the update, I get Cornell's newsletter but seen to have missed this new piece of information. I have moved this discussion under the article on HERDA and other up and coming genetic diseases of the skin, Diseases of Horses » Skin Diseases, Wounds, and Swellings » Hair and Coat Problems / Itching / Irritated Skin » Epitheliogenesis Imperfecta (EI) & Hyperelastosis Cutis.
DrO
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Member:
jjet
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Posted on Tuesday, May 8, 2007 - 12:01 pm:
Dr. O, There was an article in the May 1 issue of Quarter Horse News. Winand's suspicion is that the foundation sire, Poco Bueno, is the early sire with the HERDA gene. It has been confirmed that Doc Olena, Dry Doc, Great Pine and Zippo Pine Bar all were carriers.
So many quarter horse owners have at least one of these sires in their pedigrees. But , she states not all horses are carriers and few are affected.
Just shows that you must be very careful to research your bloodlines well before breeding to the latest and greatest!
That test would certainly be worthwhile if you are planning to breed.
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Member:
gsmangus
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 12:58 pm:
re: HERDA test done by Dr. Winand at Cornell University - we just had our horses tested (all negative thank goodness) BUT if you are interested TEST YOUR HORSES NOW !!! Dr. Winand told me that once they license out the test the cost will go from $20.00 to most likely $50.00 !! At this time the cost is considered a charitable donation to Cornell.
Susan K. Mangus
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Member:
boomer
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Posted on Monday, May 14, 2007 - 4:52 pm:
I've seen one horse with this disease and it's not good. I even think it's terminal. The skin eventually just falls off.
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Member:
gsmangus
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Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 11:35 am:
There IS a listing of HERDA carrier stallions on the Yahoo HERDA group site. This is a "Private" group so you have to apply to the moderator to join. The listing is on their database link, I have recently looked at it a number of times - some surprising stallions are carriers. Be advised: I have left that group as the people seem very unwilling to discuss any opinions different from their own, resorting to personal attacks.
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