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Discussion on Bringing toe back
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Jun 8, 2007 - 7:38 am:
Dr.O. Hank's feet are really long and underrun again. I read the article and wondered if rolling the toe aggressively could make a horse sore with this kind of hoof? If I understand the article it could thin the sole too much at the toe? Before Hank had all that bruising this winter he was doing well until the farrier looked at the x-rays and got pretty aggressive at the toe. The x-rays did show a thinning sole, at that time (jan). With his trim being due next Weds. I am wondering if I should tell the farrier not to be so aggressive at the toe....granted it needs to come back. It seems after every trim, even when shoes have been applied he has gone down hill, and been very sore. I am wondering if I would be better off having him come every 4 weeks and slowly take the toe back and keep the flares knocked down? His hooves are growing very fast right now. I may go to shoes in the future. I hope to maybe be able to afford x-rays next month so I will keep him barefoot until then anyway. Thanks
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Jun 8, 2007 - 2:37 pm:
What a mess here are some pics of his hooves from today, it has been storming here quite a bit and I removed as much mud as possible, and my camera is quite old. What would your suggestion be for a mess like this? The vet is coming tomorrow morning to look, but believe me he is not a hoof man, but is learning in leaps and bounds.
The first one is one I snapped 2 weeks after his last trim May 20th, he really didn't look too bad then.
The next 3 are today 3 weeks later.
From today HELP.
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Member:
cgby1
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Posted on Friday, Jun 8, 2007 - 3:09 pm:
Diane, I think that the walls are too long they should be trimmed about 16th in. longer than the sole.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Jun 8, 2007 - 5:15 pm:
Agreed I know his hoof wall is way too long since the retained sole fell out it is much more obvious.
His sole was flush with the wall until that happened. His flares look way worse for some reason also, I suppose that long wall is pulling everything outward. The BIG problem is if we remove too much wall he will become sore again...I'm sure, so the question remains Do you trim it aggressively or do it slowly? Do I go back to shoes for some corrective shoeing? I am leaning towards leaving him barefoot at least for another trimming cycle and see how things go. He is pasture sound now, hard ground still shortens his stride quite a bit, depending on the day. I just don't want to sore this horse back up to his crippled stage again, as he seems on the mend...despite the ugly hoof. Should I be concerned about that broken out wall? Thanks
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Friday, Jun 8, 2007 - 6:43 pm:
He needs to have a trim now. I would not go to shoes without first giving those feet a chance to be properly trimmed. Much of the way they look is because they are too long. I don't want to sound critical, but your farrier should have used the live sole as a guide three weeks ago and you wouldn't have so much flaring and excess wall length now. By trimming to the live sole, he/she would have exfoliated the old stuff, or at least found where the live sole was and trimmed accordingly. That broken out wall is most likely the result of the hoof trying to get rid of the excess length. Better to have the farrier do it. I admit, I am very critical of the way a horse is trimmed, but if he were my horse I would have the farrier out ASAP or I'd be getting out the rasp and hoofjack and going to town. He shouldn't be sore if the wall is left about a sixteenth of an inch higher than the LIVE sole. Just my nit picky opinion! Julie
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Jun 8, 2007 - 7:18 pm:
Thanks Julie, with this horse for some reason that is easier said then done. The farrier didn't want to "disturb" his sole last trim because he was VERY sore...probably laminatic. He is due for a trim Mon. and there really is a fine line with this horse. Even when trimmed with the x-rays in Jan. when his toe was brought back to where it LOOKED like it should be was when he became lame for the winter, he was perfectly sound before that....barefoot. I am hoping there is a happy medium somewhere. One question I wonder about quite often is Does a horses hoof have to be perfect to be sound? Does a little"" extra toe actually help some horses? Not as bad as Hank's of course. I see a lot of horses around here that are NEVER trimmed, pasture kept, and fat they are trail ridden quite often as is Hank (when sound) and they don't seem to have any issues. I had horses and ponies on 60 acres of lovely lush grass years ago, they got trimmed 2-3 times a year and NEVER a founder or lameness issue. The ponies were fat and horses were far from thin. It makes me wonder sometimes what is the BIG difference....confinement? They were rode occasionally. Every age from weanlings to 20's I don't understand it really. Hank always seems better when I take him out of the confinement pen and move him around. I really am at a loss as to what to do with him.
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Friday, Jun 8, 2007 - 8:38 pm:
I've asked those same questions and a farrier I had about five years ago said we just didn't know they were "off". Do you even remember paying attention to what their feet looked like? I think they probably did have problems, but we weren't as hyper vigilant then! At least I know I wasn't. I went on a fund raiser type ride last weekend--about 300 hundred horses and my guess is that at least 150 of them hadn't been out of the pasture more than a few times for at least a year. I was appalled at the feet! And the number of horses that were "off" was amazing. What was more amazing was that most of the riders had no clue they were riding lame horses! I suspect we just have a much more educated eye than we used to.
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Member:
kthorse
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Posted on Friday, Jun 8, 2007 - 8:49 pm:
Wow these feet are super long. It would be better to do every 4 weeks. I do mine every 3 weeks so that there is never a dramatic change. Every horse is different some do need a little extra wall etc. I know how confusing it can be. My mums get trimmed a few times a year and are never lame, same as one barefoot one at my barn. But they dont grow long like your horses feet are at the moment.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Jun 8, 2007 - 9:09 pm:
Hmmm possible I suppose, Hanks mother who was one of those ponies is 28 yrs. old That old lady has feet of steel, she don't blink an eye on any type of terrain...including sharp rocks. She never has been on a real trimming schedule like my others are now.
I had been trying to keep her on a 6 week schedule for the last year, but due to her arthritis she can't hold her back legs up well, so I gave up and she gets her fronts trimmed occasionally. My other older gelding stays on a 6 week schedule with Hank, he is sound but his hooves look like Hanks. Hank SHOULD have some of his mothers genetics for a hoof of steel I would think.
1st Here is a pic of Hanks mothers feet..rarely trimmed in her lifetime. 2nd the other geldings, I noticed tonite his quarters are broke out now too. Is The farrier doing something to cause this? Sams hoof wall really isn't long, but his toes are. These pics aren't great, but just so you can see the difference in the mare who doesn't get trimmed and the geldings who do.In a way it makes me want to forget about farriers.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Friday, Jun 8, 2007 - 9:46 pm:
Diane,
That is strange indeed! I've been following this like I do all the threads about trimming, and something I've noticed is the more I do my one geldings feet vs having the farrier do them, the less "off" he is.
I've given up on farriers as they are not dependable around here...don't return calls, or show up when scheduled. So I am depending on all the wonderful pictures on here and the comments and advice ya'all give.
Keep it coming.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Jun 8, 2007 - 10:28 pm:
Thanks Angie I feel bad some days posting so much about Hank, but I so want to help him and this is the only place with so much experience and advice.
If his hooves weren't such a mess I would truly consider doing them myself, but I don't think he is a good one to start practicing on.
I hope Dr.O. can give at least some suggestions on how to get his hooves straightened out. Dr.O I did read the article which led to my original question...could rolling the toe too much thin the sole and wall too much? and what to do about the missing walls on the geldings? The farrier rolls the toes on those 2....especially Hank an awful lot. After reading the article I was thinking maybe he should do a straight rasp down to get rid of the flares. He rolls the hoof wall front to back and now I am wondering if that isn't thinning his walls and soles too much?
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Member:
hwood
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 9, 2007 - 12:55 am:
Diane,
I don't think that his toes need to be ROLLED as much as just cut back. You can take the hoof wall back to the white line if needed. When the walls are rolled, the sole shouldn't be rasped . . . just the hoof wall. If you hold your nippers at an angle, you can nip off some of the wall so you can put a smooth edge on what's left with the smoother side of your rasp.
If you let your hoof pick swing from your finger (assuming you have a hoof pick with a loop handle) and you let the back of it bounce off of Hank's sole, does he flinch?
If the false sole fell out, then it was meant to come out. I would trim him level with the sole and thin the hoof wall at the front 1/3 of the hoof so he can break over easier. Don't rasp the toe of the sole, but only the toe of the hoof wall.
Not sure about your other gelding's quarter trim, but it may be that since the hoof wall is thinner at the quarters, that he just broke that part off on rocks, but if the farrier is used to trimming for shoeing, it may be that he didn't follow the concavity of the sole when he trimmed, and therefore, the quarters were making contact with the ground rather than being off the ground.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 9, 2007 - 7:19 am:
Holly, that is exactly how the farrier trims them. The quarters were not making contact with the ground when the horses were trimmed 6 weeks ago. It's so strange...when the farrier is done their feet really do LOOK good. Sam has been staying sound, which is a chore in itself (cushings). Hank does not flinch when I tap the hoof pick all around his sole. A rolled hoof wall just may not be the thing for him.
When I had the good barefoot trimmer years ago he always did the "mustang roll" and he could never get Hank good enough to ride barefoot. The next trimmer didn't roll the wall and always removed excess sole, and left Hanks wall a little longer than normal. He was sound to ride bare foot for 2 yrs. Then Hanks toe became long and he foundered (slight rotation) last x-rays in Jan. Maybe I just ans. my own questions! No roll, remove exfoliating sole, and a slightly longer wall!!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 9, 2007 - 9:06 am:
Back in boots this morning, he was quite sore again and the hind end spasms/weakness are back. He is much better in the boots. Nothings changed, I hope a trim helps him, I guess if it doesn't I will have to look into other things...that rear end thing is weird and could possibly be caused by sore front feet I guess. When his feet weren't bothering him he was fine or could the rear cause the front soreness? I HOPE the vet can figure this out, but his dx is going to be banamine. I didn't lounge or walk him yesterday, because of those terrible looking hooves...maybe I should have? Vet is SUPPOSE to come out this morning if he has time.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 9, 2007 - 11:47 am:
Sigh..vet says laminitis again. Hoof tested sore at toe in all 4 the backs weren't bad, but the fronts were. The changes are the ground is very hard again...it has been raining all week and just got hard again.
dx- 2 grams bute a day....feet are padded again. he said he thought rolling the toe was the way to go. He continues to loose weight and has no access to grass, so it must be the hard ground. He said to continue hand walking,..... in the boots or pads you would never know there was anything wrong with him. I'm about ready to give up.
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Member:
alden
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 9, 2007 - 1:11 pm:
Diane,
One big reason I've been following Pete Ramey's trimming methods is he is against hurting a horse. He requires the owners that want his trim to have boots available because sometimes they will be a little sore with a new barefoot trim. He also says if you draw blood (the horse's) you've done it wrong.
I looked up his clinic schedule and he's in Hampshire, Illinois the 7th and 8th of July. He looks for horses for the clinics and you might want to take the clinic yourself. I think the clinic fees are very reasonable also. If I were you I contact him. My horses are doing very well trimming his way and I haven't attended the clinic yet 
https://www.hoofrehab.com/hoof_clinics_with_pete_ramey.htm
Good day,
Alden
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 9, 2007 - 1:53 pm:
Thanks Alden, There will ALWAYS be hard ground, I am not sure Hank is capable of ever tolerating it. Is this truly founder, or intolerance of hard ground?
I have never seen a horse that was foundering become completely sound with just boots applied....NEVER. Sadly enough I have seen my share of founder around the country side, in one of my horses...boots made her a little more comfortable, but way far from sound. The styrofoam pads helped her alot, but they make Hank worse.
I just can't sort this out anymore, I am SO tempted to try shoes and pads at least a rim pad, but it is probably not wise to shoe him, beings he is acute again. He is out trotting in his paddock with his boots on right now, full of energy. Take the boots away, he is crippled again. He can't live in the boots or pads, so what does a person do? Is it fair to let him suffer without them? The farrier has never drawn blood on my horses.
I don't disagree with the vets assesment, he will continue to be treated as a foundered horse, but I do believe the hard ground is the "trigger" at this point, as did the vet. He even commented on Hanks weight loss....which he doesn't do often unless it is very noticeable. He actually is starting to look good, but has a ways to go yet
BEFORE the MAJOR DIET 2 weeks ago
Yesterday in mud paddock while lean-to is being cleaned, Vet said he could go out there for awhile to move around daily. It is just weeds.
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Member:
kthorse
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 9, 2007 - 3:49 pm:
My trimmer says there are different degrees of founder. Some horses slightly rotate and are never diagnosed they dont look like a typical founder, maybe he has a slight case which is why he is sound in boots. I dont know just guessing. If thats what it is I dont think shoes would help. You need to be sure. wishing you luck.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 9, 2007 - 5:02 pm:
There surely is different degrees of founder, the vet said I am doing a good job from keeping Hank from going into a full blown episode...so I am doing something right!
Vet is sure it is laminitis. Bounding pulses are back and sore at the toes. No heat in hooves tho, so that is good.
Farrier called and is coming Tues. instead of Tomorrow, if I am not happy with the results, I am going to try the other guy that the vet mentioned. he will remain barefoot at least until he is "pasture sound" again.....off of bute. Will this ever end????
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 10, 2007 - 8:05 am:
I e-mailed the hope for soundness farrier with pics. Hopefully I will hear back from him...the vet said I would never be happy with Hanks feet with the farrier I have now. We'll see if he ans.
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 10, 2007 - 10:40 am:
So sorry that you're still going through all this, Diane. I can understand that you feel like giving up - but I also know you won't...
If you trust your vet's opinion, why not go with the farrier she recommends so they can tackle the problem as a team?
Supportive thoughts coming your way - there'll come a time when you'll look back on this and wonder how you got through it, and be so glad that it's over and you've got your old, healthy Hank back.
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Member:
sunny66
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 10, 2007 - 1:11 pm:
So sorry to hear this Diane! Keeping you and Hank in my thoughts!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 10, 2007 - 5:17 pm:
This is why Hank confuses us all, I wrapped his feet after the vet left yesterday morning, he got 1 gram of bute at 6 pm last night. This morning he looked a little stiff but not crippled, didn't give him any bute at that time. Took pads off to let his feet dry around 10 am he walked pretty good, now it is 4 pm here and he is out walking on hard ground barefoot and looks completely sound???? The bute from last night couldn't be making him feel that good, and actually he was worse this morning.
Does founder come and go sooo rapidly...I think not. His problem is sore feet for sure. I was reading shoeing bruised feet 1 and this is how he was the summer of 2005...until he popped 3 abscesses out his left front. I believe it took 3-4 mos. for them to all blow. I know it's not how a "normal" abscess acts but Hank does nothing normal. That year the vet, nor farrier could pinpoint it either....it acted like founder.
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Member:
kthorse
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 10, 2007 - 7:27 pm:
https://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/naturalhorsetrim/
Try this group and also e-mail your pictures to Pete Ramie or other barefoot trimmers to get help. They will help.
The mothers feet look good but I am not sure about your other gelding, you need to e-mail every barefoot person you can to see what help you can get. Listen to it all and take what you think makes sense to your situation. Thats what I do when I have a problem , eventually someone says something that helps . PS hard ground is good for horses feet. I hate soft ground I never want my horse on soft ground. Lame or not. I hate it when it rains too much. Hard ground makes strong feet soft makes mushy feet. If they cant handle hard yet thats when boots come in.
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 10, 2007 - 10:29 pm:
I had a gelding that foundered, some rotation, we got him sound--using Gene Ovenick's (hopeforsoundness) principles--in a matter of about 3 months. Then he suddenly started presenting with intermittant lameness, comfortable, then lame, comfortable, then lame, etc. I had trouble getting him and the vet together when he was lame so it took awhile, but finally caught them both on a day he was lame and was able to find an abcess that when pared out and drained ended his episodes and he remained sound for nine years until I lost him to a tortion colic. The vet theorized that the abcess would find away to drain and that would lessen the pain, then it would seal off and the pain would return, and this process was repeating. When he found the pocket, it was very large indicating it had been going on for a long time. This horse was not a suck it up kind of guy and had it been hurting the entire time, he's have let me know! It's not uncommon with horses that have some tissue damage from laminitis to have abcesses. Like Dr. O always says when you say "could it be...?", anything is possible.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Jun 11, 2007 - 7:40 am:
Julie, that is how Hank acts, yet he is dependably sore in the mornings to varying degrees. I do believe he foundered shortly after the rabies shot and at that time the styrofoam made him feel good. Now it seems any hard padding hurts. That is also how he was 2 yrs. ago, and always worse in the morning. There is a spot back by his frog that when I pick it he does not like it. Last night I did give him a bute, but didn't pad his feet and from the window any way he looks good, usually he doesn't. I will have to look a little closer at that spot today, usually he slams his foot soon as I touch it. I don't think at this point he is laminatic, if he was I would expect him to be acting quite differently. Who knows...but an abscess is worth looking into. Maybe when he gets trimmed tomorrow it will be more obvious, I just hope he doesn't cripple up yet again.
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Monday, Jun 11, 2007 - 9:16 am:
Starting to sound like a whole fresh approach is needed. How does one find the abscess in his foot? I am just thinking out loud here, but sometimes we get stuck in thinking it is one thing, and just go with that. And maybe it is something completely different.
If you can stand more reading, I found a site this morning, www.horsefarrier.com, a guy named Davie Farmilo, an Aussie, it's his site. I found his take on barefoot trimming interesting.
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Member:
ngossage
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Posted on Monday, Jun 11, 2007 - 10:00 am:
Hang in there, Diane. My farrier has a nifty little laser tool that he uses to check for heat in the hoof. He points the laser thermometer over the hoof, and it has a readout window of the temperature it's picking up. Can be useful for picking out heat spots/possible abscess locations. Maybe your farrier has one of these or knows of someone who does that he could borrow?
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Jun 11, 2007 - 12:54 pm:
I always thought a hoof tester should find a smoldering abscess. Hank hoof tested sore at the toes Sat. but I even commented to the vet he squeezed pretty hard before a reaction. After a dirty look and a re test, Hank didn't react much with "normal" pressure. One spot to the left of the toe on his RF seemed to be the sorest...in my opinion....same side he acts sore at the heel/frog when I pick his feet. He is also licking his heel there lately, he did that last time one popped out there, then the coronary band one blew about a month after that. After all that bruising he had last winter and that yucky retained sole, maybe he does have a "smoldering" abscess. I hope his trim is good tomorrow, it can do nothing but help him.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Jun 11, 2007 - 7:51 pm:
Diane, if you find a six week cycle too long then go to a four week cycle, you will find this suggestion in the article on chronic heel pain in horses.
As others have commented above there were reasons why these feet were left too long last time: too much older poor quality horn was left in the sole. However I would not try to micromanage the trim and shoeing unless you have a really good understanding or what you want. Better is to tell the farrier you goals and concerns and then discuss these with the farrier. Together you should be able to come to a mutually satisfactory trim.
Julie's history of abscess following a founder episode is very common as the defect in the white line that follows rotation represents a week spot that the bacteria can take advantage of.
Nicole's farrier's device is not a laser but an infrared detecting device. Personally I find the hand as good a tool but under the right conditions it will certainly detect the inflammation associated with a abscess. We have discussed the proper use of these either in an article or long discussion and a search should turn it up.
DrO
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Jun 11, 2007 - 9:31 pm:
Thanks Dr.O. You are right as usual, now that his "retained sole" is gone maybe this farrier will be able to get a decent trim on him. Overall I have been happy with his work. I think he tries to be cautious with Hank because it doesn't take much to make him sore. I will say he took me back a bit one day when he said he never heard of banamine and yes was serious.
Hank is VERY good today he is walking normally on hard ground and his turns looked real good too. Days like these I would LOVE to hop on him and go for a ride. He is on bute at night again, but if he keeps improving...which I doubt, I will take him off it again. His weight loss is really coming along and he is starting to look like a horse instead of a cow. Keep hooves crossed for a good trim tomorrow.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 12, 2007 - 8:12 am:
This morning is Hanks best in Mos. He isn't lame at all!!!! Still a bute last night. It LOOKS like an abscess came out at his heel in the rt. rear, maybe that has been the cause of that rear end funkiness, I HOPE so. I still think there may be a front one "smoldering" I'm almost scared to have him trimmed he is doing so well. I will post pics of his after trim, to see what you think.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 12, 2007 - 9:40 pm:
Hank got trimmed this afternoon, he walked off rather tenderly. The farrier didn't want to remove any sole because it gives to thumb pressure. I gave him 1 1/2 grams of bute tonight. We decided to trim him again at about 4-5 weeks unless he doesn't need it. I just couldn't get any good sole shots or front on ones. He still has a bit of a flare on left front, which is the one that flares like crazy. His rt. front looks good. I don't know what to think of the soles. The side views turned out pretty good. I HOPE he doesn't go downhill again, I can tell he is sore even with the bute. On his left front there was a bruise/ abscess looking thing at the toe, on the right front there was some bruising (but not bad) in the whiteline to the right of the toe. Here are some vies from the sides. Any Opinions?
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 13, 2007 - 7:58 am:
Well sore but not crippled this morning, no pulses or heat. He is standing a little camped under. I am going to keep him on 2 bute a day for a few days.
Dr.O. should I expect him to be sore following a trim considering everything?
I really want to get a good sole shot, that is where my concerns lie right now. I think the farrier did a decent job and we left his wall a tiny bit longer than normal. Thanks
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 13, 2007 - 8:32 pm:
Diane, there are horses that are sore following trimming but without an examination of your horse don't know if this is to be expected with your horse.
DrO
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 14, 2007 - 5:26 pm:
Dr.O. Hank is improving daily. I have been letting them out in a small pasture that I have had the calves in. When he is on lock up, they are in the limestone paddock, quite hard right now. We have had no rain lately and the temps are close to 90. The little bit of pickins that are left are brown and short. He Walk- trot- canters ALMOST sound in the little pasture.....slightly short strided, if you didn't know his stride you would think he was fine. When on the limestone he is still moderately lame. All the horses are starting to cough from being in the dust there. Hank DrOpped another 10#'s this week and is down around 150#'s from spring. He is NOT at his ideal weight yet, he has another 50-75#'s to go.
I don't believe he grass foundered, he wasn't on grass at the time. He seems to move much better when in the small pasture. Right now I am working them up to an hour a day. Do you think I am making a mistake letting him out? When they are done grazing I run them around a little...only if he is willing (he always is)...not forced. Thanks
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Member:
sunny66
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Posted on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 - 10:14 am:
Hi Diane, great news on the weight loss! Is he still on bute?
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Friday, Jun 15, 2007 - 9:06 pm:
Thanks Aileen, Hank is still on one gram at night, I just weaned him of the morning bute (AGAIN).
I guess my judgement is best...I hope as far as the pasture goes, so far, so good. He looks so much better when he comes in, if it stays dry I would like to get him out 24/7. I really think it would help him. I just like a little reassurance I guess...but no one really knows! The pasture is also very hard, but for some reason doesn't bother him near as much. When he comes in he can even walk on the limestone pretty good. Quite a balancing act. I WILL get Hank to his target weight..I WILL..I WILLL He weighs 1023#'S now and started close to 1200#'s I WANT to see him weigh 950#'s. I can't remember the last time he was under 1050#'s.
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Member:
sunny66
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Posted on Saturday, Jun 16, 2007 - 12:35 pm:
Your judgment is best Diane, since you can see him... my two cents is I would probably wait until he's off bute completely for 3 days, see how he is, then go from there. Wishing you and Hank healthy happy feet
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 17, 2007 - 1:36 pm:
Hello Diane,
We have been gone a few days so sorry for the late response. Our recommendations on resting and exercising horses that are having pain from founder are in the Overview article. It is good to hear the horse is improving.
DrO
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 17, 2007 - 7:55 pm:
Thanks Dr.O. I read the article. Since Hanks trim he seems pretty good in the fronts, something whacky is going on with that hind end yet. I'm not sure he is having founder pain, I do believe he is having I'm not meant to be barefoot pain.
I had him out today for a hand walk in his boots and his front end looks great, I hopped on him bareback in the yard to see if I could feel it and it KINDA felt like he is short in the left rear. I called my neighbor who is better at lameness than me to watch him. She said he looked wonderful in the front, but his left hind was short and he was swinging it out and the back under himself too far. He backed fine and we could not find any heat or swelling. Honestly at this point if I put front shoes on Hank I think his fronts would be fine, even bare foot he's looking better every day. That hind end has something weird going on....from day one of this whole episode. He doesn't rest his back legs anymore like he use to. I can see his stifle "strumming" almost like it catches for a second.
even tho it was for a short walk bareback around the yard it was SOOO VERY NICE to sit on my partner again. I have to get this horse right!
It may not be the thing to do, but I think I am going to give him higher doses of bute for a few days...in case there is inflamation in that stifle, then taper down and see what happens.
Does a sticky stifle cause pain? Does exercise make it better? He is definately better after moving around.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Jun 18, 2007 - 9:42 am:
For more on a "sticky stifle" see, Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Upper Rear Limb » Stifle Lameness » Stifle Lock: Upward Fixation of the Patella.
DrO
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 19, 2007 - 7:40 pm:
Dr.O. Hank is still a moderately tender footed on VERY hard ground barefoot. He is fine on pasture grass type of footing....willingly walk, trots, and canters without encouragement. His pulses and heat are gone, he is still on bute...for stifle. He was completely off bute before and it didn't seem to make a difference as far as his front feet.
I would like to put his boots on when he is on the hard ground....about 12 hrs. a day, but am worried about softening his sole and walls up again. His sole is getting harder and not giving to pressure anymore. Would shoes be a better option at this point? I will leave him barefoot at least until 7/16 when the farrier comes. I think if I can get him some relief on that hard ground he will get better faster. Is there anything that can be used that doesn't cause dampness and then the soft soles? I am putting iodine on his soles. Thanks
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 21, 2007 - 7:41 am:
The shoeing decision needs to be made by examining the foot Diane and as to what might protect the sole without creating excessive dampness will depend on your environment and management. I don't know of any boots that would not trap moisture if the ground is wet.
DrO
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 21, 2007 - 8:25 am:
Thanks Dr.O. I put Hanks boots on overnight. I removed them this morning and made an interesting discovery. I could see he is weight bearing on his soles, there were spots that were rubbed clean, where obviously his sole is making contact, rather than the wall. I am fairly sure this is the reason for his soreness. How can this be remedied barefoot? My farrier or vet really aren't much help.
I am hoping to get x-rays in July and maybe that will help, the farrier doesn't want to remove any sole, which I don't blame him.
Shoes and a rim pad would remedy the sole contact I'm thinking.
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