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  Discussion on !8 Month Old Colt Suffering from Tying Up
Author Message
Member:
Dlmyers1

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 21, 2004 - 3:25 pm:

Dr. O.,

Thank you for answering my question about Liquamycin LA 200 in the Medications Section. I hope bringing the discussion over here is the appropriate thing to do.

A little background history on the colt: He is 18 months old and was purchased by a local horse trader at a local auction. Other than that, we don't know where he came from. When the horse trader purchased him, he appeared to be healthy - but who really knows in these types of situations. The horse trader does not keep a mineral block readily available at any time during the year. The colt was ridden hard on a hard packed dirt surface for a couple of hours. Why these people do this to babies is beyond me. He was ridden like this for 2 or 3 days. At first we thought he was foundering, but doesn't appear to be true. The vet believes he is suffering from tying up synDrOme.

The horse trader gave him some IV bute irregularly for the first couple of days. Then the colt got nothing. The colt still did not have access to salt or a mineral block until someone brought some table salt in and put a little in his feedbox. The colt was being given whole corn and alfalfa by the horse trader. If the colt was able to get up and eat, he did. Needless to say, he lost weight and wasn't drinking much water.

In any event, the colt was not seen by a vet until we took him home - almost 2 weeks after the initial symptoms appeared. We kept him stalled the first day. The next day he moved around the yard a bit and seemed quite happy to be outside. The next day (Tuesday - yesterday) he seemed a little more reluctant to move. Today (Wednesday) he is off his feed and back to laying down a lot. He is on 2 grams of bute twice a day. He has warmed water with electrolytes available and is drinking pretty well. He has free choice grass hay and is being offered a 16% mare and foal feed.

He is due to be re-examined by our vet in 10 days.

Would dexamethasone help him at this point, or is it too late for that?

He seemed to prefer alfalfa hay while at the horse trader's. Would it be okay to offer him some alfalfa?

How long does it take to notice improvements in a severe tying up episode like this one? Or are we being overly optimistic because he had basically no vet care for the first two weeks after tying up?

What are the possibilities that this colt will even have some semblance of a normal life?

I wish we could have gotten him sooner. The horse trader wanted an exhorbitant price for him and we got him to come down a little. It got so the colt was bad for his business and that is why he let him go a little cheaper. This man would rather a horse die than put any money into them for medications or vet care. Maybe he thinks it is bad for business and won't be able to sell the horse. I just don't understand this attitude.

I guess the thing for me to do is stay away from this man and then I won't know about the ones that need help.

It may be that this colt will need to be euthanized. I hope not, but I would rather that happen than to see him suffer.

Thanks for any words of wisdom that you may have to offer.

Donna Myers
Member:
Christos

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 21, 2004 - 7:00 pm:

Donna,
The "exercise" you describe this baby has been through is good reason for a metabolic breakdown much more serious than "simply" tying up.
And after he broke down, he was awaiting help for two weeks. Well, I wouldn't expect him up and jumping for at least the next ten days.
How are his functions? Blood tests? Why so much bute for a little horse on an empty stomach? Have you considered feeding him technically until he has the strength to eat by himself?

Have you shot that butcher? Will you do it for me?
Member:
Paix

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 21, 2004 - 7:48 pm:

I dont know all the symptoms he is displaying since not posted, but all I can think of is severe dehydration, hospitalization & IV FLUIDS 24/7 - no waiting.
Remove food and have only IV Sustenance, electrolytes, etc.
It wont hurt - only help while trying to figure out exactly whats going on.
Bute like that can exacerbate problems.
My instinct is not to wait 10 days - take him to a hospital, now.
What does his blood work show?
Did they check physically check his bowel?
What other symptoms are u seeing? His gums like flypaper?
Im no Vet, just lots of years behind me with horses (my studies were in "Bipedal" Medicine).
Ive met many "lost causes" that have recovered with no long lasting ill effects.
Have faith but take action.
Sounds like you did a lot to save him from this nasty horse trader.
He seemed to have zero chance there.
keep us posted - Id be interested in his blood work and other physical symptoms.

The love of horses knows not
it's own depth till the hour
of separation.
-Anonymous
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 - 7:36 am:

Donna, without examining the foal I cannot answer your questions but I don't think a shot of dexamethasone is indicated. He does need to be seen by a vet quickly however to assess why he has gone down in the last 24-48 hours. To learn more about the clinical signs and treatment of tying up see, Equine Diseases » Lameness » Diseases of the Upper Rear Limb » Tying Up, Rhabdomyolysis, and Shivers (EPSM), but there is not much in your post to support the idea this is what is going on.
DrO
Member:
Kthorse

Posted on Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 - 8:04 am:

Hi,
This also doesnt sound like tying up to me.
I hope the vet is able to come out quickly to help this little guy.
Katrina
Member:
Oscarvv

Posted on Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 - 9:27 am:

I am glad you got him away from the horse trader....
I would be concerned about giving 4 grams of bute a day for any long term period. Especially to a youngster.
I second or third bloodwork. Does he have a fever? What do his gums look like? Is he dehydrated? Is he passing normal manure? You may want to run a fecal. Are his feet sensitive to hoof testers?
Please keep us posted.
~Barbara
Member:
Dlmyers1

Posted on Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 - 2:14 pm:

Thank you, everyone for your suggestions and thoughts. The vet will be here this afternoon to do bloodwork and x-ray his feet.

More food for thought:

The colt (he now has a name - he is a champagne TWH, so we call him Spirit) was given IV Liquamycin LA 200 for 3 or 4 days after arriving at the horse trader's barn. He was also wormed with Ivermectrin the day after he arrived there. Spirit started showing signs of not feeling well within a day or two after being ridden hard for 3 consecutive days on a hard packed surface. He had no cooling down time and was put back into the stall hot and sweaty. He had no mineral block.

My friend called me and said I needed to come look at him. He had a high heart rate (92 at rest), a pounding pulse in his foot, a slightly elevated temperature (101.2 F). Eyes bright, good capillary refill time, somewhat dehydrated, off feed, shifting of feet and hot front feet. My first thought was founder - or what they call road founder, around here. Spirit never really assumed a founder stance.

After the IV bute was administered, the pulse rate DrOpped to 60, which is still significantly high and indicates pain to me. Over the next couple of days, he got IV bute by the horse trader when I nagged him into it. (He didn't want to spend any more money on a horse that may be dying.) Spirit spent a lot of time laying down and urinated and defecated on himself. He would get up once in a while, but with great effort.

I had the vet call the horse trader and talk to him about the possibility of founder. I tried to get the trader to have the vet come out and he refused. Instead, this person (and I use the term loosely) relied on misinformation from other horse traders. One told him to IV some electrolytes into him.

Anyway, the day before we talked the trader into selling him for a little less money, we noticed that Spirit's hindquarter muscles were stiff, hard and he flinched when you touched him there. His pulse rate was around 50, no temperature and feet not not. He was constantly shifting all four feet.

When we brought him home 2 weeks after the initial pain appeared, we kept him stalled for the first day. The vet was out and his feet were fine, but he was still sore in the hindquarters. Her idea was to x-ray him in 10 days and draw blood to see what the damages were. Since the colt appeared better, we agreed to that plan. She suggested a loading dose of 2 grams of bute twice a day for three days, then 1 gram twice a day for 2 weeks.

His manure at this point was small amounts and appeared somewhat dry and not very frequent. We attributed this to his being off his feed for sometime and having a frozen water bucket at the horse traders.

The next day he was let out for a bit. The ground was frozen and hard. He moved around quite a bit - no lameness and completely happy to be out. The next day he started downhill again. Yesterday he wasn't interested in leaving his stall and in fact, spent most of the day laying down. Towards evening he felt well enough to eat a little.

This morning, he wanted out again and ate all his breakfast. As I type this he is grazing a bit in the yard (small area). He still appears sore and reluctant to move quickly.

He has no temperature, pulse is around 50, no heat in his feet, eyes are bright and alert, gums are pink and capillary refill time is good. He is well hydrated. He ate all the hay he was given last night during the course of the night. His manure is normal in appearance.

Since we had no initial x-rays to verify that he was foundering, I am thinking that is what happened. I also think he was tied up. I wonder if the founder wasn't getting less painful and then he moved around on the frozen ground and it reared its ugly head again.

I guess we will know this afternoon. Please keep Spirit in your thoughts and prayers. He hasn't done anything to deserve this.

Donna Myers

www.dreamcatcherstables.net
Member:
Christos

Posted on Thursday, Jan 22, 2004 - 2:47 pm:

Good to hear he is better, Donna.
Don't bother too much investigating what was the problem when he came in your hands, with such treatment he must have suffered all over.
Just focus on his current condition, run a good overall exam on him and keep taking good care.
He surely sounds like a lucky little fellow.
Member:
Dlmyers1

Posted on Friday, Jan 23, 2004 - 12:28 am:

Update on Spirit.

The vet was out this afternoon and x-rayed both front feet. The right front shows no change. The left front has a 5 degree rotation. He is to be kept on 2 grams of bute twice a day until she sees him next week. Blood was drawn and we will have the results from that tomorrow. She also suspects tying up. Hind feet were not x-rayed as he showed no tenderness to hoof testers.

A certified journeyman farrier has been called and he will be here at 8:30 tomorrow morning to put corrective shoes on him.

After that, a trip to the vet's to pick up nitroglycerin cream for his front feet. She should have the blood work results done at that time.

We have our finger's crossed that the blood work will be close to normal.

Thank you all for you kind thoughts and kind words. It truly is appreciated.

Donna Myers
Member:
Warwick

Posted on Friday, Jan 23, 2004 - 11:45 am:

Visited your website, Donna, and found out about the wonderful work you are doing. The world needs more people like you.

Please keep us updated on this little fellow's progress. He's a lucky guy to be in your hands.
Member:
Suzeb

Posted on Friday, Jan 23, 2004 - 12:27 pm:

Ditto for Sue G
Had a peek also and do keep us updated.
Susan B.
Member:
Paix

Posted on Friday, Jan 23, 2004 - 1:53 pm:

This is a lucky Spirit. So glad he is getting such good care.

Good for you and all your work - beautiful website - Ive just begun working on mine, now that Ill finally have my humble dream ranch.

I plan to take in PMU foals, now that Ill have room. PMU Horses/Foals are in great need.

{https://rescuenetwork.com/rescue/modules.php?name=Web_Links&l_op=viewlink&cid=16, https://rescuenetwork.com/rescue/modules.php?name=Web_Links&l_op=viewlink&cid=16

dina


He doth nothing but talk of his horse.
"The Merchant of Venice" (1.2.10)
Member:
Kathleen

Posted on Friday, Jan 23, 2004 - 5:21 pm:

Donna,
Also checked out your website. Good luck with Spirit and all the others. They are the lucky ones.
Kathleen
Member:
Dlmyers1

Posted on Sunday, Jan 25, 2004 - 5:18 pm:

Update on Spirit.

The farrier (CJF) came out and put shoes on Spirit's front feet. He put some gutter screen between the hoof and the shoe and then squeezed in some dental impression-type material that set up. He then put stryofoam on the bottom of the shoes that is held on the duct tape. The styrofoam is to stay on until it falls off. The farrier will be back for a reset in 4 weeks. The farrier suggested bute be given as needed, rather than twice a day.

The farrier warned us that Spirit might be sore for 2 or 3 days. Friday night and Saturday night were not good nights for Spirit. He improved after he was given his bute. He spent a couple hours at a time laying down, mostly in the sternal position.

His appetite wasn't good Saturday, but he did feel well enough to come out of his stall and visit his buddies for a bit.

We clipped his legs around the ankle so we could apply nitro-bid to the pulse area. The vet is hoping that this will improve blood flow to his feet.

Today is pretty good for Spirit. He wants to go visit his friends, but it is nasty and cold out. So we kept him up in his stall where he can still look out and see what is happening around the yard. He is eating better today. Water consumption is normal.

I hope he has a better night tonight.

It looks like we have done all we can for Spirit. We will continue with the nitro-bid and bute and he will have his follow up farrier visit. The rest is up to Spirit.

Thank you again for all your kind comments and thoughts. It is deeply appreciated.

Donna Myers
Member:
Dlmyers1

Posted on Sunday, Jan 25, 2004 - 5:35 pm:

For anyone that is interested, I have posted a photo of Spirit under Art & Entertainment/Images.

Donna Myers
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Jan 26, 2004 - 7:45 am:

Rest, bute, and sole support are the cornstone of founder therapy and it sounds like everyone has done a great job. I can't wait to see the pictures.
DrO
Member:
Dlmyers1

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 28, 2004 - 12:41 am:

Another update on Spirit:

Spirit continued to lack an appetite through Sunday. Monday morning we called the vet and she suggested we give him Torbugesic as needed for the pain. She also suggested giving him Pepto Bismol.

The transformation was amazing. Within a couple of hours he was eating and moving around the yard sticking his nose into everything.

He had a good afternoon and evening on Monday and a good day today, Tuesday. He continues to eat well. We haven't had to give him the Torbugesic.

He is moving much better. Spirit is less hesitant to walk and moves more freely. We can tell he is still off, but the improvement is filling us with hope that he will be okay.

I am hoping and praying that we are over the worst of it.

Thank you again for all the kindness.

Donna Myers

PS Tater's mom said he might be for sale to a good home. <ggg>
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