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  Discussion on Lesions on Lips
Author Message
Member:
leilani

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 10, 2007 - 12:55 am:

Hi Dr O,

Today I was checking for correct fit on a new headstall and I noticed small lesions on my 6yo QH mare's lips on the inside. On the R side, middle upper lip a 1cc lesion (oval) with a reddish middle and pink border. Her L side, upper closest to the corners, had a lesion that had 2 parts joined both less than 1cc. The lower lip had a small lesion less than 1cc.

Nothing has changed in her diet. I checked her bit which is a D ring snaffle and I noted a .05mm separation from the D to the bit.

I rode her today and her behavior was normal. What do you think?

Thank you so very much. Leilani
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 10, 2007 - 7:29 am:

Leilani, I am having trouble picturing these wounds from your description. But you should give your horse a once all over and check vital signs.

However the mouth being the main tool the horse uses to interact with the world frequently has small traumatic lesions of little significance (if you don't constantly wear gloves look at your hands for comparison, I count 6 healing wounds on mine). So this is a critical test: when a small lesion is first noticed does it seem to be healing and does it continue to heal over time. The most common cause for progressive nonhealing lesions of the gingiva I see is foxtail exposure in the hay, see Diseases of Horses » Colic, Diarrhea, GI Tract » Mouth, Esophagus, and Liver » Disorders of the Mouth and Teeth.
DrO
Member:
mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 10, 2007 - 10:58 am:

Is this horse turned out at all or could there have been weed leaves in her hay? There are some kinds of weeds that will cause sores on the lips if horses eat it. Quite a number of years ago we had several horses that had sores on their mouths. The sores were all about the same size and sound similar to what you are discribing. If a horse gets foxtails embedded they will cause round sores sometimes also. Also, is she the only horse with these sores?
Member:
chance1

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 10, 2007 - 11:08 am:

We had a similar problem last year, except there were also some lesions on the tongue. It turned out to be seed heads (for lack of a better description) in the orchard grass that was delivered. Once I quit feeding the offending bales, the lesions healed and never reappeared. My friend that kept feeding the hay has had a continuing problem. I got a "clean" supply of orchard grass and all is well.

I hope your mare heals quickly. I get canker sores on occasion so I know how uncomfortable sores in or around the mouth can be.

Best of luck, Ruth
Member:
leilani

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 10, 2007 - 6:17 pm:

Dr O and HA Members,

Anuhea is out 24/7, no hay just kikuyu grass. I will take Anuhea's vitals this afternoon and then take a look at everyone else's mouth. If I can rope someone in to helping, I'll take a picture. This is very puzzling.

I looked at my hands Dr O, not a pretty picture. Thank you again. Leilani
Member:
karent

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 10, 2007 - 6:21 pm:

I had the same problem a couple of years ago. One of my boarders horses was diagnosed with VS and all the horses were quarantined. When her blood results came back they were inconclusive and the state Vet came out and took a sample as well. He called back with a negative on VS (this process took about one month). Turns out it was foxtails that were leaving the lesions.
Member:
leilani

Posted on Tuesday, Jul 10, 2007 - 6:39 pm:

I don't believe we have VS in Hawai'i. Also, she is fed hay in the form of alfalfa cubes. Leilani
Member:
leilani

Posted on Wednesday, Jul 11, 2007 - 2:55 pm:

Vitals all ok, appetite good (way too good), water intake always good. I noticed that my older mare Mele has a similar lesion also. Hers is almost a callous.

I looked at Anuhea's mouth again this morning and nothing has changed. I can touch it and she doesn't wince or try to move away. It's tough like a callous.

I'll keep you folks posted. Thanks again. Leilani
Member:
revans

Posted on Thursday, Aug 23, 2007 - 3:14 pm:

Leilani,
I have 4 yr old mare that is on her 3rd lip lesion exactly as you describe.She's had two on her left lip and one on the right lip. Oval to round with/pink center.About same size as yours. They seem to heal and go away in about month to six weeks. She is in pasture full time, healthy w/good appetite.
I've been putting neosporin on the lesions to accelerate healing. Anybody have any ideas what these are and best way to treat?
Member:
leilani

Posted on Thursday, Aug 23, 2007 - 4:41 pm:

Hi Richard,

I believe that the culprit is a sensitive plant (Mimosa pudica L.)that grows in the pasture. I have seen her eating them and it must be painful as they have small thorns.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Aug 24, 2007 - 6:50 am:

Richard what you are doing seems to be working but I would add a careful exam for a foreign body. At my age I have to put on my reading glasses however to see the foxtail awns that often accompany these type lesions. See reference in my earlier post above.
DrO
Member:
revans

Posted on Friday, Aug 24, 2007 - 1:20 pm:

Thank you Dr.O and Leilani for your reply.
I will try and take a closer look at the lesion to check for a foreign body. I'm also going to check the pasture for foxtails and will try and get some info regarding Mimosa pudica and see if it grows in my area ( central Cal).
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Friday, Aug 24, 2007 - 8:16 pm:

I have had blisters on the outer lip/mouth area, tongue and gums from ingestion of toxic weeds.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Aug 26, 2007 - 9:04 am:

Vicki, do you know what weeds caused the problem? Buttercups (Runuculus sp.) come to mind as a possibility but in the cases I have seen generally accompanied by more serious symptoms along with the blistering of the mucosa. The same would be true with blister beetles.
DrO
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Sunday, Aug 26, 2007 - 2:38 pm:

The weed that has caused me problems (and toxicity/mouth problems were confirmed to me by an equine dentist who had been in contact with University of Florida) is a weed called Golden Corydalis. One of the early signs the horses are eating it can be water blisters, and even gingivitis to the gums. The weed is highly palatable, and especially when the plants are young, horses may seek it out. I believe it grows in many parts of the U.S. and is even cultivated in some states. Here in Florida I see it in the colder winter months. It is very cold-hardy and becomes all the more attractive if it is one of the only green things out in the pasture. Many years I have had to pull up extremely large patches of this, as it tends to become invasive. It looks a bit like Italian parsley -- lacy foliage kind of light, gray green with small tubular yellow flowers. The flowers eventually turn into small beans. The action of the plant is not well understood but if I recall correctly it is related to the Poppy. My toxic plant book for horse owners is loaned out to a friend presently or I could give you more details. Photos of the plant are easy to find on the web. There are other species of Corydalis weed that have flowers of other colors (white, pink) and I don't know if those have the same toxicity or not. I don't know how this plant made its way to Florida, but it seems to thrive in sandy soil during the winter months. I do recall the book said that if enough is ingested, the horses may die very suddenly. I have had colics from this weed also.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Aug 27, 2007 - 7:56 am:

I found this informaion on Golden Corydalis (Corydalis aurea):

Description
Golden corydalis is a spreading, yellow-flowered member of the poppy family (Papaveraceae). It is sometimes referred to as scrambled eggs. Stems are pale or whitish and leafy. Leaves are dissected into numerous small segments. The yellow flowers are irregular in shape and spurred at the base, occurring in loose clusters at the ends of the branches in late winter through early spring. Seeds of this plant are black and shiny.

Distribution and Habitat
The plant is widely distributed in the western half and central parts of Texas. It is also found north to South Dakota, west to Utah, and in southern Nevada and Arizona. This plant commonly grows in disturbed areas, along stream banks, in open woods and commonly in sandy soils throughout Texas Regions: 5, 7, 8, 9, 10.

Toxic Agent
This plant is reported to contain up to 10 alkaloids. This plant is relished by sheep and as little as 2 percent of the animal's weight can cause symptoms. Less than 5 percent can be fatal. Although cattle and horses are reported to be poisoned by this plant, they are generally much more resistant to it as compared to sheep. Livestock losses in Texas due to this plant are much less as compared to other states, such as Arizona.

Livestock Symptoms
Symptoms are similar for both cattle and sheep. They often appear within minutes and usually within a few hours of consuming corydalis:
  • poisoned animals become uneasy
  • muscles of the face twitch
  • respiration sometimes increases to panting
  • animals stagger and fall into convulsions


Downed animals make running motions with their feet. Diarrhea and bleating or bawling are common. Throughout the period of symptoms, the animals bite at nearby objects. In lethal cases, breathing and heart action slows and after successive convulsive periods the animal dies. Animals not lethally poisoned usually make a rapid, uneventful recovery.

Integrated Management Strategies
Golden corydalis has not been a serious problem in Texas. Range management practices that promote improved range condition will help reduce losses to this plant. The same is true for the use of proper supplemental feeding programs. If populations are extreme, graze infested pastures with livestock least susceptible to corydalis poisoning. Goats are least susceptible, cattle intermediate, and sheep are most susceptible.

Send Comments to: Dr. Charles Hart, Dr. Bruce Carpenter, Dr. John Reagor , or Dr. Allan McGinty.

This material is based upon work supported by the Cooperative State Research, Education, and Extension Service, U.S. Department of Agriculture, under a Southern Region IPM Program special project number 97-EPMP-1-0153.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Monday, Aug 27, 2007 - 8:54 am:

Very interesting! Thank you, Dr. O. The book about reactions in horses described them making strange snapping motions after ingestion, and one of mine ate enough once to exhibit that behavior. He was standing at the water tank kicking it and snapping at the water and at the air with his teeth. He continued to snap at the air as I led him away from the tank. Fortunately, he was okay after I gave him a dose of Banamine and pulled up the Corydalis. I had overlooked a patch of Corydalis that had grown up in a new location. When I used to use sweet feed instead of pelleted feed, there were extremely tiny black seeds in it, and must wonder if that is how it arrived on my farm. Others have noted that is seems to grow up in the area of manure piles. One thing that I have learned over the years is that if your horses suddenly keep hanging out in one location in your pasture -- go check it out -- they may be eating something they shouldn't.
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