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New Member:
menjd

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 15, 2007 - 10:17 pm:

Hello all,

I purchased a gelding as a companion horse for my colt about a month ago. He has been laminitic since Thursday after being out on pasture for 6 -7 hours. I gave him bute (1.5g 2X daily, now down to .5g daily) and stood him in cold water a few times a day for the first couple of days. I also have him on stall rest with deep deep bedding and eating only grass hay. He's not fat, about a 4-5. I have just moved across country and have found my new home to be "vet poor". There are very few vets in the area and most will not accept me as a new client. I have gotten some advice from a vet that does mainly cats and dogs (mainly keep him on bute for a week then turn him out and see how he does..and I'll come out and take x-rays only if I absolutely have to). So I am very much on my own here but I will insist on x-rays, even if this vet doesn't want to drive out here.

I have 2 questions that I was hoping one of you could help me with.

First is regarding weaning him off bute. He is standing squarely on both front feet in his stall and never really lying down. I just started walking him 2X daily for 30 minutes each in the soft footing of the indoor. He gets more short strided on the areas where the ground gets hard near the doors, will DrOp his head a bit and get "gimpy" for a step if he makes a tight turn but is very willing to walk and seems happy to get out of the stall. He is on .5g of bute 2x daily right now and seems pretty comfy. I know this is covered in the article but I am a moron and really need things spelled out for me. I plan on keeping him at this dose until all pain sypmtoms subside. Is that correct?

My second question is regarding actually giving the bute. This gelding has some abuse issues and is severely mouth shy. He will not allow any tube or syringe near his mouth. He's a 15.3 saddlebred and gets a heck of a lot taller than me. I have purchased one of those bit-type contraptions where a hollow tube sits in the mouth like a bit and you attach a syringe to the tube and squirt it in, but that wasn't too successful and things are progressing to the point that I am going to get hurt from him thrashing his head around. My only success has been to mix the bute in a tiny amount of sweet feed, which I am not too keen on him having any sort of concentrate like that right now. Does anybody have any ideas on how I can safely medicate this guy?

Sorry this was so long,but thanks for reading!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 15, 2007 - 10:36 pm:

Hi, Sara as far as when to stop the bute I think it is best when the inflammation seems under control....no heat or pulse in hoof. I kind of go by the guide line if the horse seems sore when the bute has been removed for 24 hrs. I start it back up.

I have never had a horse refuse bute when I dissolve it in water than mix it in with soaked alfalfa cubes..which is fine for laminatic horses. I only soak about 4 cubes and it "poofs" up into quite a bit....pour dissolved bute on it... mix together well and they scarf it right down...hasn't failed me yet. Good luck with your horse.
Member:
leilani

Posted on Thursday, Aug 16, 2007 - 4:12 pm:

I recently purchased the powdered form of bute and it is orange flavored as well. My vet confirmed that it didn't taste bad at all!

I had a gelding who had his front foot rebuilt and he was on bute for 5 days and never once did he refuse.
Member:
quatro

Posted on Thursday, Aug 16, 2007 - 10:07 pm:

Hi, and Welcome. You will find wonderful people with just oogles of knowledge on this site. They have been wonderfully supportive to me.

I found the best way to give my boys bute, is the tablet form. It was the best discovery I made. I ordered from a catalogue, but you do need a script for it. I just DrOp it in a handful of grain, and they don't know what they crunched on. I don't ever mess with the messy paste anymore. And I do have experience with needing bute.
I agree you need to keep him on till he does not need it anymore. Also using styrofoam pads duct taped to the bottom of his feet give relief also. Diane and I are real pros at this problem, eh?
Good Luck
suz
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Aug 16, 2007 - 10:16 pm:

Wow Susan your horses will eat a bute tab that isn't crushed, or dissolved? I thought mine were pigs, but they would never eat a whole tab.

Sara the styrofoam pads are very good for providing relief and supporting the coffin bone. If your horse is rotating it may be a good idea to apply these.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Aug 16, 2007 - 11:36 pm:

Welcome SarahnJD,
Concerning retraining this horse I would take the approach given in Training & Conditioning Horses » Behavior and Training » Modifying a Horses Behavior: Conditioned Responses. And I agree with the above opinions: as long as you have symptoms of founder you should continue NSAID's as long as there are no signs of NSAID toxicity, a very rare event in my experience.
DrO
Member:
canter

Posted on Friday, Aug 17, 2007 - 12:39 pm:

I've taken bute tabs, cut them in half, and squished a "stud muffin" type treat around each half. My mare will wolf it down without a second thought. However, for a foundering horse, I'm not sure that that type of treat is a good idea.
New Member:
menjd

Posted on Friday, Aug 17, 2007 - 2:16 pm:

Thanks everybody! Great Ideas! Dianne, I am using your soaked alfalfa cubes idea and it is working like a charm. I will be digging into the Conditioned Responses article next.

Brian (my husband named him after the dog on the cartoon Family Guy) is steadily improving. During this mornings walk, his stride was about what you would expect from a big guy like him and he did not take one ouchy step - even on the rock hard ground of the aisle. He seems to be landing a bit toe first though, he kicks up alot of dust in front of his foot when walking in the deeper footing of the arena. In any case, he is looking darn good! My plan is to keep him at .5g 2X daily then cut down a bit more in a few days, increasing it back up if he gets sore. Stall rest too with the deep footing. I ordered the styrofom from hopeforsoundenss.com but it will be a few before it gets here.

I had a paso that foundered and I had him put down after a year of trying to get him comfy. When I conpare the two horses, this seems to be a pretty miild episode of laminitis. We are just barely over a week into this and he is already walking comfortably and is on what I think is a small amount of bute. Has anybody else been through an episode like this?
Member:
scooter

Posted on Friday, Aug 17, 2007 - 3:25 pm:

Sarah I have had a horse have a mild case as this. Be aware that he is very prone to more episodes If grass was the trigger be sure to limit him or use a muzzle. Every episode they have causes more damage.

It is kind of strange he would be landing toe first, NORMALLY a foundering horse will land with an exaggerated heel first landing....due to the toes being sore. It sounds as if his toe may be too long, which can aggravate, or even cause founder by shear mechanical forces. Have you had a farrier look at him? Is there heat or bounding pulse in his hoof?
Good Luck with your horse sounds like he is on the mend.
New Member:
menjd

Posted on Friday, Aug 17, 2007 - 4:02 pm:

Hi Diane, and yes, I believe the grass was the trigger. I purchased a muzzle from Valley Vet and it came in a few days ago. I understand this is a lifetime thing and I will always have to be vigilant with regards to his diet, grass intake, and hoof care. He is new to our family, but is a sweetheart and well worth the extra care and attention. His job was intended to be the one who teaches the non-horse family members how to lead and groom and such and I am thinking he will be sound enough for that!

The farrier has looked at him when he was still pretty sore and wants to come back when Brian was more comfortable and able to stand on 3 feet with out being in major pain. He didn't say much about his toes being too long but I will be having a much more in depth conversation on how we are going to handle his feet in the next couple of days. I will ask him then if he thought Brians toes were too long.

Thanks again for the support! I really needed it!
Sarah
New Member:
menjd

Posted on Friday, Aug 17, 2007 - 4:12 pm:

Diane I forgot to answer your questions regarding heat and pulse. Never at any time did I feel any pulse. He did have some heat but it didn't seem to be really hot - not that I know what amount of heat is considered really hot. I would put one hand on his front foot and the other on his back hoof to compare. For the most part his feet have felt cold as the normally do. I should reiterate that I have never been able to convince a vet to come out and look at him, I just sort of diagnosed him as being laminitic based on finding him in the typical founder stance after the first time I had him out on grass for any length of time. It could be big time bilateral bruising for all I know. I think I remember reading that bruising can lead to founder and that the signs can very often mimic each other. I, however, feel safer treating it as laminitis since that is the worse case scenario.

Thanks again!
Sarah
Member:
scooter

Posted on Friday, Aug 17, 2007 - 6:38 pm:

Sarah, sounds like you caught and treated Brian quickly. I too would treat as founder....just in case. Better safe than sorry.

I'm glad the alfalfa cubes are working for you. Even my mare who can smell bute a mile away will eat it that way.
Member:
vrich

Posted on Friday, Aug 17, 2007 - 9:39 pm:

I have a little mustang mare who has arthritis of the coffin bone. Poor little girl has had a tough life but 1 g. bute twice a day seems to work for her. My vet carried powered bute in apple, peppermint (our fave), alfalfa, and molasses. I just mix it in the grain with a little corn oil and she loves it! Powered bute is one of the world's greatest inventions!
Member:
vrich

Posted on Friday, Aug 17, 2007 - 9:40 pm:

Please excuse spelling errors above...very tired poster!
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