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Discussion on Ulcer Symptoms
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Member:
martyr
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 21, 2007 - 1:11 pm:
My horse has an almost ideal life style. He gets free choice hay, free choice pasture, small amount of grain, regular exercise, never locked in a stall, rarely trailered, etc. He is worked 6 days a week quite intensively. He is a dressage horse.
I have never had him scoped for ulcers, because I felt he didn't show most of the symptoms. He is on the chubby side and not a tense or nervous horse. He has never had colic, drinks a lot of water, and has great bowel function. However, as a last straw to try to solve his behavior problems, I am going to give him some ulcer medicine I have on hand and later get him scoped.
I'm wondering if anyone here knows of a horse with ulcers that behaves like my horse. When you first get on him, he is very tight in the belly. When you put your leg on him to ask for trot, it's like putting your leg on a brick wall. He sometimes sulls up or balks. This has been going on for the 5 years I've owned him.
Eventually, you will get him going, but he will not be supple. You can feel his back is tight. He has a habit of stopping as though he wants to DrOp manure. When he does this, it is often difficult to get him started up again. It is obvious to me that something bothers him when he does this, and that it is not just a disobedience. However, I have not been able to convince anyone else of this.
Eventually, he will DrOp manure, and then he will start going great. This has happened so many times that I know there is a correlation to his GI problems and his willingness to go well.
Lately, he has been in heavier training and some other things have changed. He is now eating more grass. He has really started to get very resistant when ask to bend or if you put your leg on him in the wrong place. He is a gelding, but was cut late as a 7 year old, so he has a bit of dominant personality. It's hard to know whether he is acting up out of discomfort or just to object to the training. He isn't being asked to do anything he can't do or anything that difficult when he objects.....which lately has lead to some rearing.
Eventually, in every riding session, he will loosen up and start to go really well. Then he will accept the leg.
Does this at all sound like a horse that could have an ulcer problem?
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Member:
stevens
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 21, 2007 - 4:56 pm:
Hi Marion,
My horse was scoped, diagnosed and treated for an ulcer several years before I bought him. I've had him for 2 years and recently think he had ulcer issues which did resolve with use of Ulcerguard.
His behavior was somewhat similar to what you describe. Lazy to start, would sometimes sull up and eventually would kick at my right leg and actually turn around and try to bite it. I was able to push him through it, and when he did give in he was great, but I suspected it wasn't all behavioral. Anyway, after 3 doses of Ulcerguard, he's been a saint.
I honestly don't know if it was the last "come to Jesus" discussion we had (much to the entertainment of all on the property) or the Ulcerguard.
That your horse has been this way for 5 years makes me think that it's likely behavioral. But it doesn't hurt to try the ulcer med.
Good luck,
Chris
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Member:
martyr
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 21, 2007 - 5:42 pm:
Chris, it is my understanding that ulcers do not go away on their own without meds. Can someone confirm this? If this is the case, then a horse could suffer a lifetime from them and put in less than good performance.
Once I attended a Buckeye Feed seminar. I remember being told that grass will give a horse a 'sour' stomach and that they will want to eat some hay to feel better. If this is true, then I would think that grass is also not good for ulcers.
I do have 3 tubes of UlcerGaard which I will give for three days while I decide my next step. I'm not keen on spending $1500+ dollar for a month's Gastrogaard treatment unless ulcers are diagnosed via scoping. Yet, I feel badly about putting my horse through the procedure. Can anyone give me an idea of the price of scoping?
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Member:
kathleen
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 21, 2007 - 6:15 pm:
Marion,
My mare had ulcers off and on for 8 years. Ulcers will go away on their own and it is my understanding that most do. My mare didn't heal like they thought she would each time they treated her. She was scoped before treatment and after treatment and usually the ulcers were almost gone each time. But they came back. Found out that she needed to be treated until they were absolutely gone. She has been ulcer free for about 7-8 years now. I paid anywhere from $125 to $250 for the scope procedure and it is not that hard on the horse (I wouldn't do it if it harmed her in any way). It is very easy and quick and totally interesting. They sedate the horse so it probably doesn't really know what is going on. Hope this helps a little.
Kathleen
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 22, 2007 - 6:40 am:
Hello Marion,
the short answer is that no this does not sound like a horse likely to have ulcers. Then again the almost daily training does make it possible if this is a ongoing concern of yours consider having endoscopy done.
DrO
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Member:
martyr
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 22, 2007 - 10:14 am:
I extracted the following information from another professional source. I am providing it FYI, as I find it very interesting.
The first symptoms of stomach problems will often start in the right hand side of the body.
The horse may show signs of stiff neck and shoulder muscles, problems with the knees (carpal joint) and front vertebra joints, and also tensions in the groins.
Once the horse has developed a stomach ulcer, the symptoms become much more noticeable. Examples of these symptoms may include a coat which is poor and dull, colic, sluggishness in the muscles, poor appetite and weight loss.
Significant increases in the production of saliva or dry mouth, and/or swollen glands under the jaw bone are also symptoms of a problematic stomach at different stages.
The stomach can also cause an imbalance of the thyroid gland function. Stomach and thyroid problems will often have a common cause that can arise from improper feeds, which contains allergy inducing substances.
The thyroid’s hormones will indirectly affect the function of the adrenal glands and their effect on the calcium/sodium balance.
The thyroid is also involved in the calcium balance and works in conjunction with the parathyroid glands. A symptom of calcium imbalance is muscle cramps.
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Member:
stevens
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 22, 2007 - 12:06 pm:
Fascinating! When my horse was being difficult, I had the chiropractor out and he did mention stiffness on the right side of my horse's body.
If only they could talk!
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Member:
sunny66
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 22, 2007 - 3:47 pm:
Marion, can I ask where you found this information? Some of it rings true for my horse as well. Thanks 
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 23, 2007 - 7:47 am:
Marion,
when you combine the following observations:
1) that on endoscopy the majority of healthy horse have some degree of ulceration and
2) that stiffness on lunge and under saddle is a problem with all horses at some time and that if a horse is going to be stiff on one side just random chance suggests that 50% (often) it will be on the right and when you consider that it also occurs bilaterally that means that most horse with stiffness problems will have stiffness on the right.
Suggests that the idea of diagnosing ulcers using the stiffness criterion above would have both low sensitivity and low specificity. In other words, it would miss many cases of ulcers and and frequently identify horses as having ulcers that don't. We do known that with gastric ulcers there is decreased performance and can induce a general state of poor doing but horses with gastric ulcer but the "right sided stiffness" criterion is not supported by any review of clinical symptoms documented that I can find.
DrO
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Member:
stevens
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 23, 2007 - 10:02 am:
Ah, there's the cold anvil of reality
I do have to say that for my particular horse, his stiff side had been the left previously. Now granted, I had been working on the left side more lately and I do understand the difference between anecdote and data.
Thanks for the perspective.
Chris
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New Member:
smoky
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Posted on Wednesday, Dec 10, 2008 - 7:12 am:
Marion,
My horse has the exact same symptoms. We also do dressage. In the summer when he's getting plenty of grass, he's very happy and has no issues but in the winter, he will not go forward, stops like he wants to poop, is very tight behind the saddle, his stomach make alot of very loud noises and I can see the right side of the back of his belly behind the saddle moving alot. He seems very uncomfortable and sometimes he completely shuts down and will not be responsive at all, almost like a narcoleptic episode. I've never had him scoped but have had him on gastrogard for a month which did not seem to help. Recently, I've put him on Maalox which seems like it's helping somewhat. I've heard of similar problems and with them it was a saddle fitting issue so that's something to consider as well if you haven't already. Good luck!
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New Member:
kelmc
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Posted on Monday, Jun 29, 2009 - 6:10 pm:
I came across this topic when searching ulcers in horses on the net. I am very interested in talking to Marion about what came about with her horse she describes in her first post. This is exactly what my horse has been doing and I am excited to find someone else out there that might be able to share information about it. I know that these posts are a little old, but I am hoping that someone might be able to help. I am new to this site (joined so I could discuss this topic!). Thanks
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Member:
jones
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Posted on Friday, Jan 1, 2010 - 8:45 pm:
Kelly,
My horse had the similar symptoms and so far it has been determined to be both a saddle fit issue and a sore hock. His back was sore because of the saddle and because of the hock I suspect since he had to move differently to protect the hock.
He also has ulcers so its been quite the game of differential diagnosis.
Given that Marion's horse was worked hard 6 days a week, it wouldn't be a far stretch to imagine him having both a sore back or sore joints.
My horse is not worked hard at all but I do not know his history before I got him to know whats up with the hock.
You may try to have someone with a skilled eye watch you ride your horse bare back and see how willing he is to use his back end/how willing he is to move out and then ride with the saddle and have them watch. This will give you an idea if the saddle is part of the problem.
Try a joint supplement with high levels of HA to see if that makes a difference to see is its a joint issue (what joint would be the mystery
My horse is on grass hay but I do not know if he was fed alfalfa before...sometimes I wonder if he should be checked for a stone (I forget what they are called when they are in the intestines).
Also, you might start with asking Dr. O with how to begin to sort out the systems that would be giving the issues.
I hope you have great success with your horse.
Lesley
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