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  Discussion on Acti-Flex 400 or other product for low ringbone
Author Message
Member:
skye

Posted on Monday, Aug 27, 2007 - 9:42 pm:

My 23-year-old mare has been on Finish Line's Fluid Action for her low ringbone for 6 or 7 years or more, and it seems to have alleviated her discomfort fairly well until recently. I'm looking for other products now and someone has suggested Acti-Flex 4000.
Here are the ingredients per ounce:

glucosamine 6,000 mg
chonDrOitin sulfate 4,000 mg
MSM 2,000 mg
Ester C 1,000 mg
Perna Canaliculus 1,000 mg
HA 125 mg
Yucca 150 mg
Bioperine 100 mg

I believe I've read the effectiveness of MSM has not been proven, Perna canaliculus, I believe, comes from mussels, which isn't a normal ingredient in a horse's diet. And bioperine is an extract from the piper nigrum L (black pepper) plant, and supposedly enhances thermogenesis. How this helps ringbone I don't know.

As I continue to type, I think, "Sounds sketchy." The company does offer a money-back guarantee and state an improvement in the horse should be seen within 5 days, so the risk of losing money seems nil.

Anyone want to comment? Anyone know of other products to alleviate low ringbone discomfort?

BTW, here are the ingredients in Fluid Action:

FLUID ACTION® provides 5,000 mg / oz of Glucosamine AND 1,000 mg / oz of Vitamin C. Trainer-tested and proven, FLUID ACTION® uses natural ingredients in this unique formula. Also contains: Glucosamine, Yucca, MSM, Calcium, Magnesium, Vitamins B2, B6 and B12, and more.

FLUID ACTION® CONTAINS NO PAIN MASKING INGREDIENTS! Pain is nature's way of saying that something is wrong. Give your horses the benefits of natural ingredients and not just temporary pain relief like other products.

Many thanks to anyone with some thoughts on this.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Aug 27, 2007 - 9:58 pm:

Hi Ella, I have my old girl (28) on actiflex 4000 for her arthritis. I had tried about all of them including finish line with no results....usually giving them at least 3 mos.

The actiflex has made a huge improvement with her. She doesn't have ringbone...I don't think, but at her age has alot of arthritis. I have her on the liquid formula. I think it took about a mo. before I noticed a big improvement and was also able to take her off her legend injections.

They are very good about their money back guarantees.
Member:
153337

Posted on Monday, Aug 27, 2007 - 10:26 pm:

Hi Ellie,

Bioperine enhances absorption of nutrients,and the list you give here for this product are all good. If a person has dysbiosis, or a problem going on in their gut, chonDrOitin actually can work to repair gut mucosa, before circulating and getting to joints. This could be a reason humans don't notice much with chonDrOitin, so many people with stress and using so many meds for digestive complaints which in reality make them worse in the long run.

Pertaining to a horse, if you know your mare is experiencing some stress and maybe some digestive disturbance it may take an extra straight glucosamine/chonDrOitin product to actually reach the joints to benefit them.

I wouldn't suggest exceeding the manufacturers dose of this product as bioperine should not be used in excess.

Hope this helps.

In Good Health,
Amber
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 28, 2007 - 7:19 am:

Bioperine is a black pepper extract of mostly piperine. It does not so much enhance absorption of drugs but instead slows down the metabolism of drugs. It does this by impairing several enzyme systems of the liver. I am not convinced this is a healthy idea as those enzymes have other functions than breaking down medication. The safety of such a practice is unknown.

I do like the high levels of chonDrOitin and glucosamine and the addition of hyaluronate. Pernia adds to this, it was the original source of chonDrOprotective drugs for horses we were using 20 years ago. It should be noted that horses and humans doe not appear much different in response to these nutraceuticals for arthritis. Several well conducted studies involving hundreds of horses using blinded controls finds that horses response to these drugs is small but measurable and significant.

When you see huge swings, this is most likely the normal exacerbations and attenuations of degenerative joint disease and not so much related to the medication. Also one should consider the progressive nature of this disease. For more on all this check out Overview of Arthritis and be sure to follow the links to the recommended treatments where even more information will be found.
DrO

J Pharmacol Exp Ther. 1985 Jan;232(1):258-62.
Biochemical basis of enhanced drug bioavailability by piperine: evidence that piperine is a potent inhibitor of drug metabolism.
Atal CK, Dubey RK, Singh J.

Piperine, a major active component of black and long peppers, has been reported to enhance drug bioavailability. The present studies were aimed at understanding the interaction of piperine with enzymatic drug biotransforming reactions in hepatic tissue in vitro and in vivo. Piperine inhibited arylhyDrOcarbon hyDrOxylation, ethylmorphine-N-demethylation, 7-ethoxycoumarin-O-deethylation and 3-hyDrOxy-benzo(a)pyrene glucuronidation in rat postmitochondrial supernatant in vitro in a dose-dependent manner. Piperine inhibition of these reactions in postmitochondrial supernatant from 3-methylcholanthrene- and phenobarbital-treated rats was similar to the controls. Inhibition by piperine of arylhyDrOcarbon hyDrOxylase (AHH) from 3-methylcholanthrene-treated rats was comparable to that observed with 7,8-benzoflavone. Piperine caused noncompetitive inhibition of hepatic microsomal AHH from the untreated and 3-methylcholanthrene-treated rats with a Ki of 30 microM which was close to the apparent Km of AHH observed in the controls. Similarly, the kinetics of inhibition of ethylmorphine-N-demethylase from control rat liver microsomes exhibited noncompetitive inhibition with an apparent Km of 0.8 mM and Ki of 35 microM. These studies demonstrated that piperine is a nonspecific inhibitor of drug metabolism which shows little discrimination between different cytochrome P-450 forms. Oral administration of piperine in rats strongly inhibited the hepatic AHH and UDP-glucuronyltransferase activities. The maximal inhibition of AHH observed within 1 hr restored to normal value in 6 hr. Pretreatment with piperine prolonged hexobarbital sleeping time and zoxazolamine paralysis time in mice at half the dose of SKF-525A. These results demonstrate that piperine is a potent inhibitor of drug metabolism.
Member:
ajudson1

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 28, 2007 - 10:07 am:

Ellie,

I have a younger horse (5) who has had on again, off again lameness since he was around 18 months. Got kicked in the shoulder. I tried many things and found that Aniflex COMPLETE did the most for him. And in a short amount of time, although it may just be that he recovered on his own faster then too. It has Gluc, Chon, and HA plus other stuff. There is regular Aniflex and Aniflex Complete, I think the regular one doesn't have the HA.

In my case, the addition of the HA helped a lot. Also gave it to a 17 year old mare, just to help her joints. Could tell it made her real comfortable too.

Tried many just chon/gluc combos and tried the very expensive "Inflammasaver" which did nothing...not like the claims say. The natural products..Yucca and such, did nothing either.

Right now, I just give some Bute if I see some "gimpiness"...but I should try to find the money for the Aniflex complete.
Member:
skye

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 9, 2007 - 4:50 pm:

Thanks to all who posted. Fascinating info on bioperine.

I tried her on ChonDrOgen EQ Ultra: 5,000 mg glucosamine sulfate; 500 milligrams chonDrOitin sulfate; 125 mg sodium hyaluronate; 20 mg managanese.

The loading dose of 1 oz daily worked very quickly and very well. After 3 weeks, we backed off to the maintenance dose of half an ounce , and she is less comfortable. ChonDrOgen EQ Ultra at the loading dose is more than $80/mo.

Is it most likely her improvement is the result of the glucosamine and chonDrOitin? I'd like to save money by giving her an AM dose of the Ultra and a PM dose of the non-ultra, which is identical except it has only 20 mg HA.

Any help would, once again, be most welcome.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 10, 2007 - 5:56 am:

Ellie if you saw a big improvement in your horse it is unlikely to be do to any nutraceutical you are feeding but more the common waxing and waning of the pain of arthritis. You can read about the scientific research into the efficacy of these drugs at Treatments and Medications for Horses » Anti-inflammatories (NSAID's, Steroids, Arthritis Rx) » Glucosamine, ChonDrOitin Sulfate, and their use in Arthritis. The most common identifiable reason I see large improvements in arthritis cases is rest, intraarticurlar steroids, or the use of NSAID's.
DrO
Member:
skye

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 10, 2007 - 6:57 am:

Yes, I knew you might say that--it's a little discouraging. I'd like to find some way to make her more comfortable. I guess I will save my money for intra-articular steroids and NSAIDs.

And you know, my right knee has some arthritis, and I'm not desperate.

Thanks, as always.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 10, 2007 - 9:55 am:

Whoa Ellie,
Read the article! I am not suggesting you do not use nutraceuticals just be careful about intrepreting effect from a single experience and be realistic about their use and effect. My horse has DJD of the hock and we use them on him and believe it has helped.
DrO
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