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  Discussion on De-rotation procedure for moderate rotation 2.. .duallying hooves
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Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 12, 2007 - 8:12 pm:

Farrier was here today and hank is now without equi-pak! This old hoof... new hoof thing is kinda concerning me. In the pics you can see his founder ridge and it is like his new growth is tucked inside that ridge. Is this normal and is the farrier doing an ok job? The top part does seem to be coming in much tighter and looks much healthier...in person anyway. Here's some pics after he was shod. I would appreciate thoughts on these "duallying hooves" Thanks



Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Sep 13, 2007 - 9:11 am:

Diane by studying the progressive images in the article on derotation I believe you can answer your questions. Remember these are diagrams and some variation from foot to foot is to be expected.
DrO
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Sep 13, 2007 - 12:38 pm:

Dr.O. you give me too much credit for understanding this. I did look again at the articles illustrations and it would appear we are at step 5? I see in that illustration it has a "ridge" in the hoof also and the top part is tighter, so I will take for granted things are OK? His hoof growth really slowed this last 4 weeks so we are going to a 5 week schedule now. The farrier thought things looked good...but he is young and inexperienced, so I am trying to keep on top of things... I don't want Hank to fall apart after we just got him put back together. Thanks
Member:
juliem

Posted on Thursday, Sep 13, 2007 - 1:43 pm:

Diane, if you look at the illustration, you will see that the shoe is placed so that the breakover is not under the lower part of the hoof wall, but under the upper tighter better part. Now look at where the back of the shoe is placed. It's well under the heels. It looks from the pictures that the breakover could have been back and the heel back further as well. But, pictures can be deceiving, and YOUR HORSE IS SOUND, so maybe you just need to keep doing what you're doing.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Sep 13, 2007 - 5:10 pm:

Julie could you explain how his breakover could be back further? How do you move the shoe or whole hoof back? It really didn't look as if it could go back any further. Hanks white line is still VERY stretched I honestly think it looked like it was a good 1/4 in.wide. When the farrier put the shoe on he sets it back to where the white line begins and rasps all the dead stuff away. In effect is he dubbing the toe? All bruising in the sole area and the blood in the white line is finally gone!!! Hank is very sound and the side view pic is a little deceiving, his hoof really doesn't look that under run and his heel isn't that high. I just couldn't get a good pic I even laid on the ground! I walked him barefoot when the shoes were removed and he did well even on gravel, the farrier asked what time I had given him bute he moved so well. I told him Hank hasn't had bute for a good mo. and he couldn't believe how well he moved barefoot and buteless. We will probably try barefoot again when the new hoof hits the ground if this de-rotation effort goes ok and his sole thickens. Thanks for any thoughts.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Sep 13, 2007 - 8:13 pm:

Also notice the ridge in the diagram that is half way down the hoof as in your hoof. This is the stage I picture your horse at and until grown out the white line will remain stretched looking.
DrO
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Sep 13, 2007 - 10:48 pm:

Dr.O. PLEASE bear with me so I can understand better. Hank is at step 5 in the article...he does not and never had wedges however. It would appear from the description that his connection is better and it is following the coffin bone. Thanks for the white line comment..I wondered.

What I don't understand from the illustrations...which may be pure ignorance. what is at the toe.... is that filled with equi-pak or something similar? If we didn't use wedges is it still possible to de-rotate? and I don't think I understand break over. Watching him move it looks like his breakover is very good, but how do you determine it is by just looking at a hoof? sorry for all the questions but I just want to keep Hank going in the right direction and have some nice x-rays to post in a few mos.!!! Thank you!!!!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Sep 14, 2007 - 9:52 am:

The article explains in detail why and where wedges may or may not be needed Diane. As to an explanation for the proper location of breakover see Step 2 which explains how to place breakover. Radiographs are helpful for correct placement but it can be estimated, for more on this see Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Hoof » Correcting Long Toe Low Heel Foot Conformation and the subtopic on Evaluating Breakover, it explains how to do this.
DrO
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Sep 24, 2007 - 9:47 pm:

Dr.O. I have been applying iodine to Hanks soles to help toughen them, he has had soft soles for quite awhile. I have been applying it every 2-3 days and his soles do seem much harder. All the articles I've read in here I haven't been able to find how often it should be applied and should you quit once the sole seems hard?

Also I have been putting hoof heal on his walls and was wondering if these ingredients are good. I am putting it on to keep them from chipping and cracking due to being shod every 4 weeks....which seems to be working. Thanks! Here are the ingredients....

Active Ingredients:
Raw Linseed Oil, Spirits of Turpentine, Pure Menhadin Oil, Bees Wax, Balsam of Fir, Oil of Vitriol.

Dosage & Administration:
Brush Cut Heal Hoof Super Penetrating Conditioner on hooves at least three times a week. Only apply Hoof Heal to clean hooves.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Oct 1, 2007 - 6:38 pm:

Vet was here today to do Flashes teeth and checked hank out while here.

Hank came galloping up to give him a "kiss". I Told him he is padless now and he couldn't believe how sound he was, also said he looked like a horse now instead of an elephant and finally his weight is good....I NEVER thought he would EVER say that!

He said his hooves looked good "considering", and he thought when the new hoof hit the ground around Dec.- Jan. his rotation would be much better, said farrier was doing a good job keeping his hoof under control. AND he was so thrilled he told me when it's time for new x-rays they will be free and then we were going to do a big high-5 and celebrate...so he is confident anyway that things are going well. I still think his hoof looks funky tho

Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Oct 1, 2007 - 6:39 pm:

Vet was here today to do Flashes teeth and checked hank out while here.

Hank came galloping up to give him a "kiss". I Told him he is padless now and he couldn't believe how sound he was, also said he looked like a horse now instead of an elephant and finally his weight is good....I NEVER thought he would EVER say that!

He said his hooves looked good "considering", and he thought when the new hoof hit the ground around Dec.- Jan. his rotation would be much better, said farrier was doing a good job keeping his hoof under control. AND he was so thrilled he told me when it's time for new x-rays they will be free and then we were going to do a big high-5 and celebrate...so he is confident anyway that things are going well. I still think his hoof looks funky tho. Just wanted to give a little HAPPY update.

Sorry about the double post...hit post too soon.

Member:
zarr

Posted on Monday, Oct 1, 2007 - 6:51 pm:

Diane, this news is so worth a double post HUGE YEAH! Cindy
Member:
dres

Posted on Monday, Oct 1, 2007 - 6:53 pm:

LOL i thought it was my computer.. i see it IS dbl post..
well i was going to just say... we LOVE just happy updates...

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
Member:
leilani

Posted on Monday, Oct 1, 2007 - 7:02 pm:

Great news Diane and now Hank can retire from the circus. Leilani
Member:
frances

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 2, 2007 - 7:34 am:

What a turnaround Diane! Congratulations!

Lynn
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 2, 2007 - 8:15 am:

I only wish y'all knew what an important roll you guys and Dr.O. have played in this recovery! Your moral support and advice kept us going.

Hank and I thank you from the bottom of our "sound" heart and hooves
Member:
quatro

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 2, 2007 - 10:11 pm:

High 5 from Levi and I!!!! Congrats for a job well done.
suz
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 9, 2007 - 10:40 pm:

Dr.O. Hank is due to be re-shod Oct. 24th which would be 5 weeks. We had been doing him every 4 weeks. I noticed tonight that his hooves are starting to get a bit of a dish and are growing quite fast again. Would it be wise to have the farrier out sooner to get rid of the dish that is starting?

The "duallying" hooves are weird it looks like the old "diseased" growth would like to collapse and really run forward. The new growth is still looking good, but I KNOW it will follow the old weak bottom given the chance. I believe we are at a critical point in getting his hooves correct.

I don't know if he could tolerate it, but was considering pulling his shoes so he could be trimmed more often during this critical period.
He is 100% sound now and all signs of "sore" feet are gone...no more pulses, tippy toeing, etc.
He did still have a little red at the toe in his whiteline last shoeing. I also walked him around barefoot before his shoes were put back on and he looked good...even on gravel....but that was just a moment in time. I'm not sure how he'd be barefoot all the time and the sole bruising is a concern.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 10, 2007 - 6:13 am:

DianeE, if the foot is beginning to grow misshapen, yes I would have the farrier out to correct the situation. Because of all the factors I really do not have an opinion on being barefoot but if the farrier believes the hoof capsule strong enough and you have a reasonable ground surface I don't see why not.
DrO
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 10, 2007 - 7:26 am:

Thanks Dr.O. I will have farrier as soon as possible. In my mind I don't think he is ready for barefoot yet, but if the farrier thinks it is ok maybe we will try. I guess I can always put the shoes back on if he gets sore or starts bruising again. It would be VERY good if I could have him barefoot for winter, otherwise he is going to need pads and borium with our hills. Walking him on the limestone paddock is his true test of soundness, if he is off on that I will put the shoes back on.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Oct 15, 2007 - 9:28 pm:

Dr O. Farrier called he is coming Weds. I asked if he thought Hank was ready to try barefoot again. He said with the bruising being gone and as good as he looked last shoeing when we walked him barefoot he thought it was worth a try. If he is more than a slight bit ouchy on the hard ground the shoes will go back on. The farrier said it might be a good Idea not to trim him when we pull the shoes and he would come back in a week to trim him would that be OK?
Right now the ground is soft from rain so he should be ok.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 16, 2007 - 10:33 am:

It sounds like a good plan to me Diane.
DrO
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 16, 2007 - 4:41 pm:

Thanks Dr.O. I thought it sounded alright also. Letting him go barefoot is a little unnerving, but I decided I am not going to play around with it if he is sore the shoes go back on at least until his new hoof is completely grown out. Barefoot in the winter would be wonderful tho if he can stand the frozen ground and having 350#s less fat on those hooves isn't going to hurt either. Thanks
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 24, 2007 - 6:13 pm:

Farrier was here today...Hank is BAREFOOT again! The farrier examined his hoof and said he thought it was possible, he trimmed him and I walked him on all terrain....rocks, limestone paddock, paved road. He walked well on all of the above and willingly trotted. I do not plan on riding him on anything hard like the road or gravel, except to cross it.

If he shows any signs of bruising the shoes go back on immediately! ...farrier agreed. Will post pics of hooves tomorrow.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 - 3:29 pm:

Dr.O I read the articles and finally found sole tougheners. I started out putting iodine on Hanks soles every other day and now have gone down to once a week. According to the article it hasn't been decided whether this is good long term. I want to try to keep his sole tough as possible now that he is barefoot (and doing remarkably well).. I am also applying the hoof heal (which you didn't comment about)? according to directions. If I keep applying the iodine twice a week is there a possibility of over drying his sole? What happens if the sole gets too dry? Thanks
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Oct 25, 2007 - 8:18 pm:

Pics of Hanks hooves...Dr.O. from what you see do his hooves look O.K.? Sorry about the mud they decided to go for a swim in the creek and our hoses are put away for winter. I did wire brush them. There does seem to be a dish where new growth meets old, and his heel is still run under some. The farrier didn't want to get to aggressive this trimming so he would hopefully be comfortable barefoot. Will that dish be there until the damaged hoof grows out or is there something that should be done about it. He did take his toe back and rasped of the stretched white line to where it should be. His hooves still look bad, but is that to be expected until the new growth is all the way down? He is VERY sound and galloping around the pasture which is hard at the moment he isn't flinching on gravel anymore and seems as good barefoot as he did with shoes. Thanks!!



Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Oct 27, 2007 - 10:27 am:

Your foot has improved with the heel backing up some and the flare growing out. I tend to remove more of the flare at the toe than you have but Dr. Redden has chided me saying that as long as the break over point is moved far enough back the flare will just grow out without thinning the wall and making it less resistant to cracks. I don't have cracks as problems so continue to do it. It looks to me that you have breakover back far enough.

Excessive drying of the horn causes it to crack and flake prematurely so if you start to see evidence of this you should stop applying sole toughners for a while.
DrO
Member:
scooter

Posted on Saturday, Oct 27, 2007 - 11:15 am:

Thanks Dr.O.! I thought his hoof looked much better also. The pic above is the left front and the one that seemed the flare would never get better.

The farrier is learning as he goes also, and for being inexperienced seems to be doing a pretty good job....which will help other horses down the road. Your articles and responses have helped us alot down this horrible road.

I don't know if Hank will tolerate the hard frozen ground or not, but well worth a try anyway. Told my vet Hank was barefoot and he was actually quite surprised...said he has horses with less problems than Hank still unsound even in shoes. I HOPE his x-rays show an improvement. I know I have been a bit neurotic about this whole fiasco...SOOO many thanks for putting up with all my neurotic questions...I'm sure there will be more
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Oct 29, 2007 - 10:04 pm:

Dr.O. Hank has been handling barefoot pretty well. Yesterday I took him for the first ride since removing shoes, we crossed a paved road to get to the (soft) bean field. His stride was definitely shorter on the road. We mostly walked with a little trot in the field he was 100% sound there. Crossed the road back and I put him away he seemed ok to me then. I have noticed in the last few days he isn't quite as enthusiastic about walking on the lime stone paddock and an occasional misstep on the gravel in part of their turnout. Nothing overly concerning considering everything that is wrong with his hooves, and he doesn't seem to be in pain. HOWEVER tonight I noticed his digital pulses were slightly elevated....they have been completely quiet since his shoes were applied, not even a tick above normal. I know you have told me to keep the pulse in it's place but I am very in tune with what is normal for him. This elevated pulse has happened with his ouchiness. There is no heat in hooves, I have noticed he weight shifts on the fronts occasionally when standing still. ouchiness is not really alarming at this point and really what I expected (or worse) when his shoes were pulled. He is VERY active in the pasture for turn out gallops out the gate and moves just fine..before they get to the pasture they have to cross the gravel. The first couple of days of barefoot he cantered or trotted across the gravel to get to the pasture, the last couple days he walks rather tenderly across it.

Now if he were a horse with normal hooves none of this would really concern me much, but he's not and I don't want a downward spiral to start again.
I had considered giving him bute tonight but then again I don't want him running around feeling too good...so didn't

OK after this book my question is how do I determine if he isn't ready for barefoot without him going completely lame again?
Member:
dres

Posted on Monday, Oct 29, 2007 - 10:32 pm:

Diane, you have done such a good job on this horse.. i have been reading all your reports.. but it just seems to me .. if it is less stressful for him to wear shoes and less stressful for you.. then what the heck.. put the shoes on and be done with it..
I have a gelding that will have to wear shoes all his life.. no it does not make me happy to pay the farrier every 4 weeks.. but he is much sounder and happier cus i do..
I don't mean to sound negative by any means.. just think if you know shoes work.. stick to them.

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Oct 29, 2007 - 11:00 pm:

Ann if we had a flat spot on our property he would be in shoes, but the hills and weather here are not really favorable for it in the winter. I did tell the farrier if the shoes went back on we will have to add borium and snow pads to the package...it isn't really the money, but I really like them barefoot in the winter if possible they just seem to get around better, but I have a feeling they will probably be going back on.
Member:
juliem

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 30, 2007 - 12:33 am:

Diane, he's been barefoot less than a week. This could well be the normal transition you often see when shoes come off. He is trimmed quite short or so that shot showing the bottom looks, so maybe you give him another week or two. I wouldn't bute right away and give him a false sense of comfort. If he's cantering and trotting sound, I can't imagine that you'd do any damage by waiting a week or ten days. I hate leaving shoes on in the winter as well, so understand why you don't want to do that. Many dyed in the wool SHOER farriers still advocate winter barefoot, mostly to let the hoof structures get back where they belong and start functioning as they should.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 30, 2007 - 7:07 am:

DianeE,
Our problem is we only know what you tell us and therefore we get worried when you get worried. Looking at the examples you give in your post I don't see anything that is a clear indication of a problem and you yourself say, "if it were any other horse..." But in the end you and only you can make the decision that is right for you.
DrO
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 30, 2007 - 7:44 am:

Thanks, I guess my biggest concern is every day he seems worse instead of better...I thought it would be the other way around. Right now I think he is ok, if it weren't for the gravel which is really rocks and the limestone. He looks wonderful. The reason I didn't canter on our ride was because he was feeling a little TOO good..

My fear being since he isn't handling the gravel and limestone real well the frozen irregular ground is going to be much worse on him.

May not be the scientific way but if his pulses remain elevated....even slightly the shoes are going back on. His digital pulses have NEVER lied to me, something is always brewing when he gets them. Thanks
Member:
dres

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 30, 2007 - 10:20 am:

Sorry Diane, i haven't a clue how to deal with snow and horses . . not something i see here in N. Ca .. I take the shoes off all my other horses in the winter around here.. i don't ride much and i see the value in letting them grow out with out nail holes for a couple of months.. Only the gelding has to wear shoes on all 4's.. :-(

Follow your gut feelings.. I too, check for the distal pulse on my gelding it does not lie..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots.
Member:
sunny66

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 30, 2007 - 11:04 am:

Yes, DO follow your gut :-) You know best. But I will say -- and I am 99% sure you already know this -- that if he is always on soft ground, then you bring him over gravel, he's going to be sore. Remember he's had pads on which soften the soles.

I say give him a week, with no gravel (boot him to cross the road)... see what happens then...
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 30, 2007 - 1:47 pm:

Thanks His pads have been off for about 6 weeks I think, he did fine with out them...his sole actually seems pretty hard and the ground hasn't been soft since the shoes came off. He handles the hard pasture ground fine...no difference in stride at all. He also has been showing his impatience at feed time by pawing....When his feet were sore this lovely habit disappeared, so I guess he isn't hurting too bad.

Ann you are VERY LUCKY you don't have to deal with midwest winters the snow, ice, and Wind are enough to drive a person over the edge!

Good news is the pulses were gone this morning(no bute) so I will wait it out and see what happens, but last winter he got that horrible bruising and was VERY lame until I had him shod in the spring. Don't want that to happen again..
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 30, 2007 - 3:24 pm:

I just let them out for turnout in the bigger pasture and Hank did a big extended trot across the limestone AND gravel, took off galloping across the field SOOO I guess he was just having a day yesterday or maybe turning the corner for the best. One can only hope....Thanks again.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 30, 2007 - 7:51 pm:

Oh Diane, WOW!! GO HANK! I've been following your struggles with Hank with interest. This sounds wonderful.
Member:
sunny66

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 31, 2007 - 10:33 am:

Fabulous Diane! Fingers crossed for you and Hank :-)
Member:
scooter

Posted on Saturday, Nov 3, 2007 - 6:24 pm:

WONDERFUL news I rode Hank today there was absolutely no difference in his stride on the pavement or on the gravel. The bean field I rode in was hard as rock with rough ground from the tractor tires. We long trotted the whole length of it about 1 mi. he didn't miss a beat and wanted more. So we cantered a few circles did some leg yields and shoulders in he was happy to oblige anything I asked. Trotted back a mile and walked down the paved road (he wanted to trot on that too)

Dr.O. Hank had his shoes and pads put on July 16 so he was only in shoes a little over 3 mos. I kinda find it hard to believe his sole has thicknd
up much over that period is it possible?
Member:
frances

Posted on Sunday, Nov 4, 2007 - 7:01 am:

That was a real test, Diane, and fantastic that Hank came through it without turning a hair (or a fetlock come to that).

Congrats and phtu phtu!
Member:
scooter

Posted on Sunday, Nov 4, 2007 - 7:20 am:

Yes it was quite a test and pounding those hooves was a bit scary, not what I had in mind actually he offered the trot and was just very energetic so I went with it. When his hooves hurt he wouldn't have trotted if you took a whip to him. He was a bit tired last night, but this morning he is fine and still very sound. They get a lot of exercise in the pasture which is also hard as rock and a bit rutted from the cattle so he is use to that type of terrain. He gallops out in pasture now all the time so I figured his hooves must be ok. I did MAKE him walk on the pavement. When the TB side of him shows up we have to work with it. I was told more than once that with his combination of breeds I was going to have a high octane horse and I do. Thanks
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Nov 28, 2007 - 7:50 pm:

Dr.O. Hank was trimmed again yesterday the farrier and I were quite impressed. The farrier was saying OMG during the whole trim. Hanks sole seems to have really gotten a lot thicker and harder. It also looks as tho he has some concavity and his frog has come out of hiding instead of being buried in that weird sole he's had for so long. I think 1-2 more trimmings and the diseased part of his hoof will be gone. I really want to get some pics of this last trim for you to see, the transformation is quite remarkable I think. He won't stay out of that creek tho and has muddy hooves everyday. I will drag the hose out tomorrow if it isn't too cold. His digital pulses are at it again, but he doesn't seem tender...so they are on ignore for a few days anyway.

Questions are... I have read that when the sole starts to get concavity that the coffin bone is "lifting" is that true?

Is it possible for his sole to be thickening this quickly?

I am anxious to have him re-xrayed, but since he still has about 1 1/2 in until new hoof hits the ground would I be better off to wait to get the "full effect" he still has the dish where new hoof meets old. His whiteline seemed tighter is that possible since the diseased hoof is still present?

Thanks
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Nov 29, 2007 - 8:47 am:

Not neccesarily Diane, some horses seen to have naturally flat soles without rotation. The white line and sole does not become normal suddenly but improves over time. It is resonable to assume you can see improvements in these.
DrO
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Nov 29, 2007 - 2:55 pm:

Pics of recent trim, his hoof is still deformed at the toe, I can't wait until the day that is gone! No dragging the hose out...way too cold. His sole is dark because of iodine. The first is Oct. sole pic and you can see how his frog is "recessed" in his sole. The farrier only pared a little of the flaky stuff off this month. Honestly the pics don't do it justice.
I DO know they have a long way to go, but every mo. now they seem a little bit better than the mo. before
Oct. 25 sole shot


Nov. 29 sole



Side and front views

Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Dec 4, 2007 - 12:57 pm:

Dr.O. Vet was just here ( not my reg vet) he is at the AAEP conference. Anyway Hank was TERRIBLY sore this morning. Vet hoof tested and got a reaction in Rt. front. There is a small amount of heat and a digital pulse....not real bad. left front was neg to all. He walks better on the thick shavings (but not great) and is VERY sore on the hard ground. We have the hard, irregular, icy ground back. I also put farrier on notice for the winter package for his hooves. It is very icy here with 6 in.s of snow expected today. Would I be taking a risk seeing if he is better with the snow? Beings it just seems to be Rt. front maybe an abscess is brewing. Vet did dig around some where he hoof tested sore but found nothing. He said there was also some swelling in the fetlock area. He has that history of horrible bruising on this type of ground and I want to nip it in the bud now if that is the problem. We gave him some banamine and he is locked in the lean with deep shavings for now. My regular vet will be back tomorrow.

Thanks
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Dec 4, 2007 - 5:29 pm:

One more question, when I got home tonight all heat and pulse are gone, he is moving much better. I gave him half a dose of banamine paste around noon. I know the banamine is probably responsible for the better movement, but will it get rid of a digital pulse and heat completely too? Thanks again.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Dec 4, 2007 - 5:29 pm:

Diane,
I am not sure what risk you are worried about with him walking on the snow?
DrO
Member:
scooter

Posted on Tuesday, Dec 4, 2007 - 5:55 pm:

Dr.O. the risk I am worried about is if he is foundering again (which would have to be concussion type founder) or bruising, would not getting some sort of support on his hoof or protection for his sole make him worse? The snow will be soft (I hope) but last year when he had the bruising snow didn't seem to make much difference.

I know I don't have a firm diagnosis and he will remain on lock up until I know for sure. I am going to walk him on the snow tomorrow just to see if it helps. Honestly he could have slipped and pulled something on this ice as far as I know, but the symptoms do point heavily to his hooves especially since he was much better on the soft ground. When does bruising show up on the soles, does it take a few days? There isn't any visible right now. After I gave this vet Hanks condensed history he said he was surprised how good his soles and feet look. His sole was not flexing as it use to and the vet thought it didn't seem as tho his sole was very thin. I know that is hard to tell without x-rays. I don't know what to make of it, but I surely don't want to go back down the same path we did las winter. His weight is good still, I wouldn't call him thin but about a 5.5 on the bsc. He was 100% last night and laying down this morning in the lean and would not come out on the hard ground...again it just seems to be the right front, which really makes me lean towards an abscess. He never did abscess in the fronts after his founder, which is rather unusual isn't it? Thanks for any direction
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 5, 2007 - 8:03 am:

5 in. of the white stuff cured him. He was out spinning and running in the paddock showing his dislike of lock up. No lameness, pulse, or heat. I think this tells me to manage him barefoot in the winter I have to keep him up when the ground is very hard and irregular. Hoping the neurotic pawing in the snow doesn't start. Thanks
Member:
scooter

Posted on Monday, Dec 10, 2007 - 9:42 pm:

Dr.O. or anyone who may know this has been peaking my curiosity for awhile and wondered if it had any significance. Hank always has had a big, plump, healthy frog. After he foundered in April his frog started disappearing into his sole OR was his sole DrOpping? His frog is once again big and plump and not buried in his sole what caused this? You can see in the Oct. 25th shot above his frog was still NQR.
I am going to put some pics in for you to see the progress he had shoes and equipac in July, Aug, Sept. so no pics of frog. Was/is this what is considered a DrOpped sole? Is it normal now? If it was a DrOpped sole how does it go back? I know these may seem like stupid questions, but I really would like to know what it means....if anything.

MAY Sole



JUNE Sole



Today DEC



Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Dec 11, 2007 - 7:49 am:

I think it most likely that frog growth slowed down following the founder.
DrO
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 19, 2007 - 8:51 am:

Dr.O. Hank has been doing pretty good since we had the 5in of snow, however it is getting packed down and hard again. He also paws thru the snow quite frequently. This morning his DP is back and he is walking a little tenderly....not horrible.

The farrier is scheduled in a week. Considering the tenderness and his problems would it be advisable to maybe put this trimming off? His hooves don't look overly long, I think his pawing is keeping the toe trimmed pretty well. If pics would help I could try to get them. I just don't want him to get to the point of VERY sore. Thanks
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Dec 21, 2007 - 8:15 am:

If you believe the tenderness to come from thin soles, postponing is reasonable. If the tenderness comes from other diseases of the foot trimming may be therapeutic. This are decisions best made by those who can examine the horse Diane.
DrO
Member:
scooter

Posted on Friday, Dec 21, 2007 - 8:27 am:

Thanks Dr.O. Why can't I think logically like that?
Once again a winter storm is blowing in so the "wonderful" white stuff should save us again. I guess if it is still soft from the new snow I will go ahead with his trimming...the founder line should be gone in another trimming or 2 and will have x-rays taken at that point...will know where we stand with the thin sole and rotation then.
Thanks
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