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Discussion on Fluid sac
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Member:
Cara2
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 9, 2004 - 7:44 am:
Hi Dr O,
I'm sure it is just the result of a bite or sting, but last Thursday my mare developed a sac of fluid between her right front leg and the ventral mid line of her chest. It is hanging from the folds of skin there if that makes it clearer to imagine. I'm positive it wasn't there in the morning as I spray her with fly repellent over and under twice a day and I spotted immediately in the evening. I have twice seen something similar in other horses, once from an irritation on the front of the chest, and once when a horse was injected into the chest muscle so I know that the fluid can travel quite a way from the "problem" under the influence of gravity. I'm just a bit concerned as nearly a week later it doesn't seem to have changed at all. For all the world it looks as though if I stuck a needle in it it would all just drain off- there isn't any hardness in it. I worry though, this is the drug-controlled epileptic horse and I always watch her her for signs of liver problems particularly. She is around 22 now and looks great, shiny coat, good mucous membranes including nice white eyes, normal urine and DrOppings. There is no fluid in her legs although she is out 24 hours so gentle movement might keep this at bay? I know she does have a slight heart murmur but my vet has always said it is nothing and normal in horses anyway. Would I be correct in thinking that oedema in the chest area due to congestive heart failure would start on the left side rather than the right, given the position of the heart? I see no sign of a jugular pulse but cannot test for exercise intolerance as she is resting her suspensory ligament (again!) so not being ridden. We did attend a local show last weekend though, walking 25 minutes each way and trotting up in hand for the judges. It was very hot and humid by UK standards and she looked to be handling it far better than me!
Am I just being a worry-wort? She is always getting fly bites and swells up like me despite my best preventative measures but I've not seen anything like this on her before.
Thanks Dr O!
Helen
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 9, 2004 - 6:03 pm:
Hi, Helen,
Are you sure it is not hematoma from a kick or from running into something?
You describe this as a sac, which sounds to me bigger than a reaction to a bite would be.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 - 7:28 am:
Ventral edema from heart failure does not start on either side but generally down the middle and is not quite as focal as you describe. A simple test would be the heart rate: it is very unlikely your horse would be in heart failure and have a normal heart rate.
I agree with Christos this seems more like a seroma secondary to a blunt trauma episode and this particular area can be tough to get to resolve because there is no place for the serum to run to. Light exercise should help pick it up but if it starts getting larger, it may have to have a drain tube inserted for a week.
DrO
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Member:
Cara2
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 - 8:37 am:
Hello again Dr O and Christos - thanks for your reassuring replies. Its all very mysterious. My mare only shares her paddock with one other pony of about 14hh and while I admit he nips her sometimes, he certainly isn't a kicker. I've seen alump on the chest of another horse which had been kicked there and it was rock hard. This really is a soft squashy bag with no core or obvious point of sting. It doesn't seem to hurt if I fiddle about with it. I'm not sure if it goes down a bit with exercise or not. Size-wise its about 3 inches long (along the natural skin wrinkle) and around 2 inches at its widest. It seems wider to the tail end than the chest so its not exactly regular in shape I suppose. If its here to stay then so be it - she can add it to her collection of dog-bite scars, wire scars, rug rubs... Until recently she had a DrOopy eyelid for 12 months after she wacked her face on an old salt-lick holder. Are you getting the picture of the accident-prone old fool? 
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 - 3:41 pm:
No, Helen, it won't be there to stay, especially if you help her a little.
I use to rub them with alcohol over such lumps to prevent infection through the skin (I do not know if that is exactly correct, but I see no harm so I do it anyway). I believe twice a day is enough.
After it stabilises (stops growing), I rub them twice a day with a cream farmers use to relieve inflammation on cow's tits. It stimulates blood circulation, and I think it helps a lot.
Of course, a vet visiting is a better option, but that's an endangered species around here...
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Thursday, Jun 10, 2004 - 11:07 pm:
I had a filly that got kicked (I think) by her best buddy. The two of them were alone in the same paddock, and this happened at night,so I'm just guessing. At anyrate, she had a very similar swelling in between her front legs. It was also soft. Excercise did help it go down, but it was taking too long imo, so I took her in to the vet and he stuck a needle in and drained it. It went down right away. It's been my experience that reactions to bug bites/stings are hard...like a mosquito bite on people (at least on me.) Some DMSO rubbed on it might help to dissapate the swelling, but if it's blood, as opposed to just fluid, it will eventually harden and might not go away, or if it does, might leave a dent in that location.
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Member:
Cara2
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Posted on Monday, Jun 14, 2004 - 8:37 am:
Just an update. It was exactly the same size on Saturday morning. Dr O you can read on if you like or sigh and give up! I went and bought some Apis Mel homeopathic tablets which I've had brilliant results with previously, dosed her up at teatime and by Sunday morning it was 50% gone. This morning it was just a fat wrinkle. I'm doing a test on myself again this morning with the Apis as yesterday I got bitten by a horsefly. I had the tablets in my pocket luckily and dosed myself throughout the day. So far I just have a red itchy patch on my leg, about the size of a cherry. Usually by this time I'm unable to get clothes over the hideously swollen limb and have had to have hospital treatment in the past. Last time I was bitten on the hairline and ended up looking like Lt Worf for a week!! Things are looking quite hopeful for me and my horse
Thanks again everyone for your feedback.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Jun 14, 2004 - 11:19 am:
No sigh needed Helen but forgive me if I smile. This is what happens with the vast majority of these type injuries, even if you don't give the tablets.
DrO
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Member:
Cara2
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 16, 2004 - 8:07 am:
You are forgiven Dr O, I'm glad to have made you smile. Just as an aside, have you ever actually tried homeopathy yourself? Anyway, my horse looks normal again and that's all that matters. Incidentally, my own horsefly bite is progressing superbly as well. Normally I wouldn't be able to put trousers on as my leg would have swollen up too much but as at today I have a large red and very itchy mark, no swelling at all and I've definitely got it on the run. Usually I have massive swelling for 3 or 4 days, then a gradually decline over about 10 days, oh yes the limb usually aches alot too. So you see I am happy twice over!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Jun 16, 2004 - 10:31 am:
I have not tried homeopathy Helen, I avoid potions that work through magical means. There is no known physical forces by which homeopathic solutions can work.
DrO
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