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  Discussion on Malnourished, ERU and now Heaves???
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New Member:
Sandbox

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 - 11:16 am:

Four weeks about I purchased a 7 year old TB gelding (Foster) that was born & raised his first 4 years in ND (where I live) and than moved to MO where he lived until he was delivered to my barn. The last time I rode/saw him was about 18 months ago and he looked fine. It's hard to describe my shock when he was unloaded from his 15 hour trailer trip extremely malnourished - about a two on the weight scale. His owner described him as "thin" and said that I should ride him to help develop an appetite. He also told me that horse was due to be dewormed and needed to be reshod.

Foster also had a small cloudy spot on his right eye - his previous owner explained that he had probably bumped his eye on the trip and it would be fine.

I immediately dewormed him with ivermectin - the next morning there were large roundworms in his DrOppings. The good news was an improvement in his appetite. I had started feeding him soaked beet pulp mixed with sweet feed and alfalfa. He is a rather finicky eater.

Of course, the cloudy spot on his eye grew and merited a trip to the vet - she diagnosed him with recurrent uveitis - the pupil was already fixed but no ulcerations were noted. Treatment was atropine and prednisolone. After two days of struggling with the meds I took him back to have a sub palpebral lavage put in. After 10 days of treatment there was absolutely no improvement in the eye - still very cloudy and teary. But now a new problem was occurring - his breathing was becoming elevated and he was becoming more lethargic. So we were told to start him on 20cc of penicillin and 2 grams of bute daily - the reasoning was perhaps his eye was painful. Fours days later (yesterday) his breathing became extremely elevated and he was having difficulty breathing and hadn't eaten his dinner or breakfast. He was justing standing in his stall. Gave him 12cc of ventipulmin syrup and made another trip to the vet. This time I was told he has heaves and will need to be medicated with sulfa antibiotics and dexamethasone.

His eye now had an ulceration caused by the lavage disk slipping and rubbing the top of his cornea. So removed that and will now start these DrOps - gentocin, some muro 2% (to help with edema) and a serum spun from his blood to keep the eye from turning to jello. Oh, and atropine PRN to keep the eye dialated. Good grief!!

But here's my question - I have never head the horse cough and from your information it appears that heaves is always accompanied by coughing. He was been allowed out to exercise (at his pace) and will occasionally run but again, never coughs. He did have slightly elevated white blood counts but no temperature. I'm questioning if he could possibly have pneumonia instead. But if it is heaves what do I do? I can't turn him outside right now because of his eye being so dialated - yet I don't want to exacerbate his condition either. I am starting to soak his hay and looking into alternative forage sources (beside the beet pulp). We use pelleted bedding and the barn is kept clean.

Any input would be greatly appreciated. Sandy & Foster (nervous about our first post)
Member:
Canyon28

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 - 11:58 am:

Sandy, I think the person you bought this horse from should be whipped with a lunge whip. they obviously sold you a bill of goods, I hope you didnt pay much for him, this is just terrrible and sad. His eye was already hurt before he was sent to you, that is for sure, and a horse that malnourished didnt get that way on a day or two trip. Is is obvious that the seller was not feeding or caring for the horse long before he was sent to you. This makes me furious. A horse with heaves will cough, and should be kept outside, you could put a fly mask on him to keep his eye shaded. I think he has some kind of bad infection and it is possible he has phneumonia, especially if he is off his feed. I hope he recovers, maybe take him to an alternate vet if this one continues to insist he has heaves. I hope you dont lose him, the breathing problem is very serious. I have a mare with only one eye, she isnt broke to ride, she lost her eye as a yearling or something, but she is fine without it and never stumbles or runs into anything, and is not spooky. What a shame, I would talk to the person you got him from, and ask for some of your money back for the medical bills, but since they tried to blame everyone but themselves for this horses condition, I dont think you will be able to get an satisfaction from them. Take care and I hope he will recover with some good antibiotics.www.canyonrimranch.net
Member:
Cowgrl

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 - 12:25 pm:

It does sound like the horse has either pneumonia or another type of bug. I had a horse with pneumonia and she had the symptoms you describe. Labored breathing, depressed, no appetite. The vet should have picked that up right away. If it were heaves, the horse would be coughing. I wouldn't turn the horse out unless it was warm until I found out what illness he has. To protect his eye, you can get one of those masks they use in racing with one closed cup. But it is true, most horses get along very well with one eye.

Hope you can get to the bottom of this and get him fixed up. Poor kid!
Member:
Mrose

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 - 3:36 pm:

Sandy, I feel sorry for you and Foster. I agree also with the thought he could have pneumonia. Or he could maybe have asthma. It sounds like you are already attached to him. I'm glad he's found someone to care for him. With proper treatment and care I would think his prognosis is good. We had a foal that had pnuemonia once and it took a lot of nursing, but he recovered fine with no after affects. If it's asthma, that is usually controlable also. (I've lived with it all my life and think horses can too.)

Good luck with him. On the bright side, all the tender care you are giving him now will really form a close bond between the two of you.

(I'll be interested to see if Dr.O agrees with us "armchair vets!")
Member:
Hwood

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 - 6:15 pm:

Sandy,

In order for the horse to be shipped over state lines, he would have had to have his vaccines and a health certificate, right? Is there a way you can contact the vet in Missouri who dealt with the horse? He might have other medical records on the horse . . . Is there a way for new owners to get a horse's medical records?
Member:
Sandbox

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 23, 2004 - 9:37 pm:

Thanks to everyone for all of the support and empathy! I'm just trying to take one day at a time. Foster was feeling much better today - his appetite was HUGE! Could it be the dexamethasone? I'm still not convinced that he has heaves but waiting to see what Dr. O has to say on the subject.

He did come with a current coggins but I'm sure he didn't have a health certificate. It doesn't appear that he has had much or any vet care in the last 2 years so don't know what kind of info I'd be able to acquire - but it's worth a shot - thanks for the idea!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Jun 24, 2004 - 7:04 am:

Hello Sandy,
Usually the first event with heaves is bronchial secretions and broncoconstriction, both cause coughing. Not only is cough typical but the horse should not de depressed and inappetant with Heaves.

I too feel you have a possible pleuropneumonia and if so it is the antibiotic is causing the improvement. Since antibiotics are not routine treatment for Heaves, it appears your vet too thinks this is a possibility.
DrO
Member:
Sandbox

Posted on Thursday, Jun 24, 2004 - 8:04 am:

Dr. O - Would a 14 day course of antibiotics be sufficient to clear up pleuropneumonia? Are there any definitive tests for diagnosing this disease? Thanks for your opinion and I'm going to reread your articles referencing pleuropneumonia.
Member:
Cowgrl

Posted on Thursday, Jun 24, 2004 - 10:12 am:

Sandy, pleuropneumonia isn't a disease, it's an illness caused by fluid in the lungs. The 14 day course of antibiotics should be enough to clear him up depending on how much you are giving him. When my filly had pneumonia she was on 60ccs a day given in two 30cc injections morning and evening. She was back to her old self in a week to 10 days.

To diagnose, the vet had her breathe into a paper bag for about 30 seconds and when I removed it and she took several deep breaths, the vet could hear the rattling in her lungs.

Glad Foster seems to be on the road to recovery. I'm so happy he ended up with such a caring and compassionate mom.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Jun 24, 2004 - 6:18 pm:

That is not exactly right Holly. Pleuropnemonia is inflammation of the lung and pleura: certainly a disease. But not all pleuropneumonias (pp) are the same, both the specific cause, the organisms present, and the amount of damage done all figure in on how easy to treat this will be. Early treatment with an organism that is very sensitive to your antibiotic could cause rapid resolution. On the other hand pp by a mixed bag of resistant destructive organisms and you have a nearly impossible to treat disease. The article explains diagnosis and treatment.
DrO
Member:
Sandbox

Posted on Saturday, Aug 28, 2004 - 11:00 pm:

Update on Foster ~ along with a few more questions. First the good news: he's gaining weight - we're estimating around 150 pounds in the past three months, he had an intraocular injection to help with the inflammation in his eye and it appears to be his most effective ERU treatment to date, we ultrasounded his lungs and the vet didn't see any adhesions or any significant fluid (maybe a small amount near the front of his chest) and I received half of his purchase price back (much needed to cover his vet bills and meds).

Where I'm stuck is still with his respirations. About 30 days ago I notice globs of thick whitish discharge from his nose. A week later he started coughing ~ at any gait or just standing. He's been spending the daytime outside and comes in the barn for the night since the intraocular injection - appox. 45 days. He even coughs out flem. I soak his hay in case he does have heaves but I know Dr O will tell me to change to alfalfa cubes (I'm afraid of losing ground on his weight gain). His nose is now snotty & crusty all of the time and on Monday his breathing was becoming so labor I gave him a shot of depo (on a vet's order - she feels it'll help control whatever inflammation that's going on). As of Thursday he's starting to breath better but still way more labored than normal and there's still the runny nose.

Where do I go from here? I've read the articles on PP, heaves, and allergies repeatedly but still can't figure out my next step. What test would be most effective at deciphering the best therapy for my boy? How can I rule out any of the above ailments?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Aug 29, 2004 - 8:53 am:

A thorough exam may clearly point to one disease or another followed by a CBC with differential would be next, and if questions still remain the order of diagnostics I would use is: scoping the upper respiratory tract, broncho-alveolar lavage, and head and chest radiographs.

The snotty nose is not likely to be due to either heaves or pnemonia: the most likely source is the sinuses and pharynx. You are correct in that soaking hay is not particularly helpful and as long as heaves remains likely you will not get him well until you treat it properly.
DrO
Member:
Sandbox

Posted on Sunday, Aug 29, 2004 - 9:35 pm:

Thanks for the giving me a clear path of testing options. Would I be better off waiting a few weeks for the effects of the depo to wear off - will it mask the underlying cause of his problem? Or can I start with the testing immediately?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Aug 30, 2004 - 9:49 am:

As long as you have clinical signs to investigate the Depo is not a big factor with the exception of the BAL.
DrO
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