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Discussion on Tramatic Neck Injury
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New Member:
Lisamg
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 3, 2004 - 11:05 pm:
Yesterday, (Monday) my Arab/Saddlebred gelding, who is my endurance horse, was found out in our pasture unable to raise his head. He was all scraped up, his neck extreemly swollen, and covered in dirt. His back left shoe (which were new and on well) was also missing. His halter (which was also new)was still on but the buckle hole was slightly enlarged. No fences, or other horses were damaged, nor was there any sign of a struggle in our run-in. What we figure happened was that, while scratching his neck, he got his back shoe caught in his halter, went down and struggled until he pulled the shoe loose. It was very hot & humid so that explains why he was covered with so much dirt. The vet was called immediatley. He does not beleive the neck is broken (no x-rays were taken) but gave him a banamine shot, left us with bute and advised a call to an equine chiropractor asap. The Chiropractor is coming on Thursday (day after tommorrow). Until then, my gelding is being hosed several times a day. His appetite is good, he's eating, drinking, peeing and pooping. However, his neck is disfigured and protrudes to the left and is hollow on the right side. His head is filled with edema now and looks horrible. This horse normally has a very high head carriage, was extreemly flexible in the neck and very balanced. Does anyone out there have experience with these types of injuries? Would he ever be sound again? This horse can, and does trot now even though he can't raise his head. He seems sound but it's hard to tell with his head down. Could he ever compete agian?
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 3, 2004 - 11:40 pm:
Why did the vet feel x-rays weren't necessary? I personally would want x-rays from the sounds of things. I also would not have a chiropractor touch the horse until I'd seen x-rays, and I have nothing against chiropractors.
Is he holding/hanging his head down most of the time? Is that why it's swollen?
I hope your horse is o.k. It's a good sign he's eating and drinking normally, but at this point I'd be more concerned about his recovery than about his competing again. I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but leaving a horse turned out with a halter on that isn't a breakaway halter is just asking for this type of trouble. You're lucky he isn't hurt worse.
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Member:
Suzeb
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 4, 2004 - 12:11 am:
If this were my horse, I would be consulting with a vet who knows equines. I agree with Sara about the chiropractor and also the halters in the pasture. The prognosis will be difficult to tell until you have a vet check out your horse more extensively and is able to diagnose what type of injuries have occurred.
Susan B.
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Member:
Suzym
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 4, 2004 - 12:56 am:
Without x-rays, no one can even make an educated guess as to prognosis or treatment.
This is why I insist on break away halters...
Sure hope he can recover.
Suzy
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 4, 2004 - 6:15 am:
The advice above is right on: radiographs are needed to diagnose and prognose the injury and are needed to quide therapy. Unfortunately it is difficult to get a good field DV perspective of the neck, but a good straight lateral and several obliques should be able to help. You can take heart that the protrusion and bend are soft tissue issues probably related to pain (abnormal carriage) and swelling: if the spine where malformed so, the spinal cord would be damaged and you would have nervous system deficits, but this consoling fact does not rule out serious damage to the spine.
DrO
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Member:
Reggie
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 4, 2004 - 6:42 am:
If this were my horse, I would take him to a clinic or teaching hospital for evaluation. The x-ray equipment they have is far superior to any portable unit.
Good luck and I wish him a full recovery.
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Member:
Cowgrl
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 4, 2004 - 10:41 am:
An acquaintance of mine had a similar experience. She also turned out one of her horses with the halter on. The horse got the halter caught and ended up with a severe neck injury. He must have damaged his spine because he wasn't able to raise his head above elbow height the rest of his life. People think that just because they've never had a problem before leaving the halter on, it will never happen. Hey it only takes one time.
Sorry if I sound harsh, but I hope you learned something from this.
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Member:
Lisamg
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 4, 2004 - 1:19 pm:
...
Wow! Thanks to all who have reponded. I never really expected all that response so quickly. Guess this web site was a pretty good idea.
My vet is a very qualified equine vet. Why he did not take x-rays I do not know. Probaby becuase the horse does not show any nerological problems. Remember he can still trot like this quite well. This horse cannot be hauled anywhere for x-rays as he would be unable to raise his head to get in most trailers.
I disagree though about turning horses out with halters on. I have had horses for over 25 years, always have put them out with halters on ..... never had a problem. Our pastures are safe .... unfortunately I cannot control their hooves as being a danger to them. (but not all our horses wear shoes either) We live by a busy road .... the risk of getting hit by a car because a horse that might get loose could not be caught to me is greater than the risk that another horse might get caught this way. (pretty unlikely in my opinion) Also, we have name tags on our horses halters so that they can be returned if they got loose. That has only happened once, and none left home ... but I don't feel "life in a padded stall" is the answer either. I guess break away halters would be an idea, however, we also use these halters on the horses when tied. I'm thinking a breakaway halter would defeat the purpose there. Most of our horses halters are roomy enough for the horse to slip the halter if caught ... don't get me wrong, I appreciate your input, but just saying "you shouldn't have had a halter on your horse" is not constructive advise to me.
I kind of have a feeling that permanent injury may be the outcome here also, like the one horse described in the posting who could never really lift it's head again. That would sure be a shame but liveable. The chiropractor who is coming out was recommended by my vet, known to all the other equine chiropractors in the area (only 3) so I'm sure she's qualified.
And yes, to one of the postings, his head is swollen from the edema from his neck following gravity. It looks painful to me.
I'll update tomorrow after the chiropratic visit.
Thanks Again!
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Member:
Deggert
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 4, 2004 - 2:48 pm:
Hello all
Lisa I hope your horse returns to normal. I personally don't leave halters on, when we needed to identify horses at my uncle's farm we used breakable neck identifiers. Everyone has a different situation and view of the risks they are willing to accept. On the farm I mentioned, we came out one morining to find a yearling filly hanging in her pipe corral, got her head stuck between 2 rungs, passed out and broke her neck. I had never heard of it but it sure made an impression on me. Of course, she was the best bred filly out of 80 head there and we had spent so much time with her. That was 20 years ago and to this day I board up the rung that is about at the base of the neck, especially young curious horses. We do have a friend who's adult horse did the same about 2 years ago, right after coming home from 6 months of training. Thought I would share, but many people have never heard of this happening. Its rare, but when it's your horse its a 100%. Take care
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Member:
Sylvy
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 4, 2004 - 5:41 pm:
I too have to disagree with leaving halters on. We bought a young horse in Edmonton, and sent her to be broke by a trainer there.( He was recommended to us) He left her halter on and she got caught up inbetween the fence boards. She ended up with a gash on her leg and on her head. I'm sure you will hear of other incidences of injury from this practice as well. This sure taught me a lesson!
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Member:
Leilani
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 4, 2004 - 6:16 pm:
I agree with the members who have shared their dislike of halters on horses turned out. I have never turned my 2 out with anything other than a fly mask on. I don't even leave my mares tied to my trailer, hooked to my truck unless someone is watching them.
My older mare is stiff at times, but still manages to get her back leg to her teeth if an itch is bad enough. She would have no problem getting a foot in a halter.
Horses are notorious for being part of "strange" accidents. An equine professor once told me that he takes care of his horses for 1 hour a day and in the remaining 23 hours they are out trying to kill themselves.
We should treat them like they are human youngsters and try our very best to safeguard them at all times. Just my thoughts.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 4, 2004 - 6:34 pm:
Leilani-I agree with your thoughs on how we should treat horses; however, having had both human youngsters and horses, I'd have to say the horses seem to have an even greater ability to get into trouble and get hurt than the humans did. They are the only animals I know that you could shut up in a totally padded stall and they'd still manage to hurt themselves!
Lisa-this IS a great site. I've had horses my entire life and I'm still learning a lot from the people here. Don't take my criticism, or anyone elses' too hard. We're all learning.
Instead of buying breakaway halters, you could "jury rig" the halters you have now so they worked like a break away by tying cotton twine, or leather latigo through the buckle and holes, then when you catch the horses, just latch it in the regular manner.
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Member:
Lisamg
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 4, 2004 - 11:05 pm:
All;
What I really wanted from this site was information on my horses injury, not a discussion about whether one should leave halters on or off. It is still possible that he simply took a tumble and the halter wasn't involved at all. We will never really know.
As far as his edema in his head, Dr. Jung one of the 3 Chiropractors I had called suggested holding his head up for him. He doesn't seem to object to resting it on my hip, actually I think it comforts him. And it is working, his swelling is going down. Today he also reached up to normal head height for a carrot. I guess now I'm a little more optimistic.
Tomorrow is his chiropractic visit with Dr. Levine. Will advise how it goes.
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 5, 2004 - 8:25 am:
Dear Lisa,
I do not understand either how these people are so sure it was the hind shoe caught in the halter. Of course you will never know! There are thousands of incidents that could have resulted in a lost hind shoe and a pulled halter.
An allien spaceship could, for instance, have attempted to take your horse hostage (horsestage?). The little creatures, knowing no better of horses, probably tried to winch him in by the halter, hence the enlarged halter hole.
Your brave little boy obviously managed to rear to freedom, only catching a hind shoe in the ramp's grill, taking, as a result, a couple of tumbles back down to the safety of his pasture.
Have you noticed any unusual patterns on the grass lately?
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 5, 2004 - 8:28 am:
The fact that not wearing a halter would have prevented even this scenario, is, I am sure you will agree, irrelevant.
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Member:
Erika
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 5, 2004 - 8:59 am:
Oh please! I once (accidentally, of course!) DrOpped my baby--he was okay, but how traumatic! Thank God none of you were there to keep saying "I told you so"!
Poor Lisa is in agony over her horse's injury and looking for help. Which of us has NEVER made a mistake? She surely knows by now that halters need breakaway points. Or must all chastise her...?
I will probably think twice before ever posting a problem here. I will most likely already feel enough of my own blame. No desire to subject myself to the judgement of some of you. Can't we confine our answers to the question at hand and skip the moot advice?
Okay, now blast away, I know you will!
Erika
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 5, 2004 - 10:13 am:
Erika, easy, I really think they are all trying to help. However there does need to be some balance here and Lisa, I apologize for prolonging this part of the discussion which you have asked us to stop but I think it important that others consider different points of view.
Lisa has explained that she perceives dangers to a horse going around without a halter. There are pluses and minuses to almost any management decision. You must look at your horses, environment, and your personal preferences to make decisions you can live with. We too choose to leave halters on in the pasture for a number of positive reasons. We also do not have low limbs in any of our pastures and we make sure they fit well: snug but not tight. We don't use breakaways. We avoid leaving halters on foals who are particularly aDrOit at scratching their heads with a hind foot.
Consider these two events to which I was a close observer:
1) An owner who was admonished for using high tensile by their trainer, switched to four board fencing. The following year had a horse run through the fence and impale itself on a broken board then have to be put down.
2) The young horse owner who used break aways had a horse pull loose (break away) from a tie, run out into the road and hit by a car. This was doubly tragic because someone had the horse cornered but without a halter was unable to hold the horse.
Of course we all know cased now where horses were hurt because halters were on. It's the ying and yang of horses and life.
DrO
PS: Lisa I would love for you to continue posting about the trials with your horse. Let us know what is happening.
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 5, 2004 - 11:13 am:
Dr.O,
I am so glad you posted what you did above. I too thought the post was getting to be way too hard on Lisa. She did say she weighed the pros and cons. Accidents happen.
Lisa,
I leave halters on sometimes, sometimes I don't. Depends on which pasture they are in(one we lead them to), what the horse is like, etc. If we are gonna be gone a few days, do I leave them on in case someone (a non horse person) has to catch one, or do I leave them off just so there's no freak accident?
Take Care of yourself at this trying time, and I hope your horse recovers.
Christos,
How cute. As much as I love abduction stories, maybe Lisa didn't find it humerous. Or maybe she got a good laugh outa it?
Angie
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Member:
Christos
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 5, 2004 - 5:02 pm:
Hi, Angie,
I didn't actually mean to be humorous. I meant to laugh at Lisa's insistence to persuade herself that may be it was not the halter that caused this. Well, it was! But Lisa is not to blame for it.
We are discussing here an incident that was caused by a loose fitting halter. I believe it is important to point this out.
It is also true, as DrO mentions, that may be tomorrow, we'll be discussing a different incident, where the lack of a halter caused a tragedy. And we'll have to point that out as well.
Pointing these things out will not, of course, take us to a solid verdict of keeping halters on or off. But it will add a couple of points to consider, so that our next decision will be a bit wiser.
All the best,
Christos
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Member:
Lisamg
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 5, 2004 - 5:26 pm:
Christos;
The halter was NOT loose fitting .... If it had been loose fitting, it might just have come off.
I will stop posting if this discussion persists.
Halters on are my preference. End of story.
Lisa
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Member:
Leilani
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 5, 2004 - 6:56 pm:
Very well put Dr. O and very well taken.
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 5, 2004 - 10:13 pm:
I must add one more thing about halters here. No one has mentioned if they use nylon or leather halters. I have only the nylon ones. It seems to me they get looser after being wet, and if you don't realize that, and tighten them back up, then they are too tight when dry. Unless it's the horses head that is contracting and expanding!! At any rate since noticing that, I have been leaving halters off more than on.
Lisa,
Please realize that many people feel very strongly about what's right/wrong and good/bad when caring for their horses. It's only because we love them so much that some insist their way is best. You obviously love your horse very much too or you wouldn't have paid to join HA or took the time to post here for advice.
Concentrate on getting your horse healthy, and take the postings above with a grain of salt. There may be a time in the future when you feel the need to post about something that you feel strongly about too.
Take Care, and please let us know how things turn out.
P.S. I've had a horse poke his eye, where I was positive there was nothing to poke it on. A horse break his leg for no reason whatsoever, just cantering around in the pasture. A foal try to jump a fence and go over it and hurt his shoulder. A horse that supposively had a bowed tendon, and we pulled an old 4" square nail outa her foot.....and I take all kinds of precautions too. My barn, fence and pasture usually look better than my house.
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Member:
Lisamg
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 5, 2004 - 10:40 pm:
To Dr.O, Angie & Erika;
Thank you for your understanding. It is greatly appreciated.
To All;
Dr. Levine did a lot of work on Brooks (that's the horse's name) today. I was hoping for a fairy godmother with a majic wand and from what I see I got one. She not only adjusted him, she did some pressure treatments on his knotted muscles and accupuncture. Poor Brooks looked like a pin cushion, but it helped. After she left Brooks was trying to hold his head up on his own, had a more peaceful eye and was holding his head much straighter. She said he had a lot of heat in his body from all the pain. His muscles were spasming (which was quite visible) and he had many hematomas. What she was concerned about, was that the edema in his head might have been caused by a closed head injury. This is possible if the incident happened in the run-in shed. We did find the shoe in the run-in shed but the dirt was undisturbed so we really can't be sure.
She showed us quite a bit of rehabilitative therapy that we will be doing ourselves. Tonight we did everything she told us to, and lo and behold Brooks was eating out of his feed bin which is above shoulder height for him. We put a hay net (now, don't go crazy about that people...vet's directions) in his stall (normally we feed hay off the ground) to keep him reaching up. I couldn't beleive that he was actually pulling hay out the top of the bag (way over his head) aggressively. The edema in his head has now gone down about 1/2 what it was. Stil a lot of swelling in the jowls though. She gave us some homeopathic powder called "Body Sore" to give him twice daily. We mix it with applesauce and syringe it in his mouth. No big deal, just like electrolytes only it doesn't taste bad. He seems to like it actually. Don't know if this stuff is doing anything, but it sure can't hurt.
She also called my regular vet and had him come out and do some steroid injections in Brooks' neck, he's getting steroids in a powder form too for the next 3 days. She also had my vet give me some DMSO for his neck. We are also supposed to put a salve on his feet (herbal salve) to avoid lamainitis. Hadn't thought about that .... definitly don't want to go there!
This may all seem like a lot of mumbo jumbo to some of you. I agree I have my own doubts about some of this stuff .... but what I do know is that my little (I say little because he is ... only weighs about 750 lbs) Brooks is looking a lot more like he did Monday morning when I put him out and that makes me very happy.
We have a lot of work ahead of us .... every morning, afternoon and eveing for the next 10 days at least. But to get my little racehorse back will make it all worth it.
I'll let you know when we have any new significant improvements.
Lisa
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Friday, Aug 6, 2004 - 8:46 am:
Lisa,
Thank you for the update, made me smile this morning. Yours was the first email I looked for, and I am glad for you that things are looking better. You sound very relieved, and confident Brooks will recover. With your tender loving care I am sure he will be going strong real soon.
What I should of added in my post above was don't waste your energy being angry at people with different opinions, turn that energy into helping your horse; I see you are doing that now.
Good Luck!!!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Aug 6, 2004 - 10:13 am:
Delighted to hear your horse feels better Lisa. The homeopathic materials truly are mumbo-jumbo but the massage and antiinflammatory treatments are real. The adjustment is dangerous without radiographs and of unknown benefit at best. But all in all everythings sounds much better. One thing which has contributed greatly already to his recovery is the NSAID's you mention in your first post, has that been discontinued?
DrO
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Member:
Lisamg
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Posted on Friday, Aug 6, 2004 - 10:33 am:
Dr O;
The bute had to be stopped until he is finished with the steroid treatment. He'll be off that in 3 days and back on bute. The bute was not taking care of the swelling anyway, and the steriods have. Probably good to give his stomach a break from the bute anyway.
He looked even better this morning.  His head is at normal height and straight, most of his muscle tremmors are gone except in his left shoulder. He seems to have pain when he moves his left front leg forward. But hey, compared to how he looked yesterday, this is heaven.
He even greeted one of his buddies today .... I'm sure they missed him being "gone" to the pain too.
I know all that homeopathic stuff is probably doing nothing .... but then again .... I can't argue with results. Like I said before, it all came as a package so I really don't know what's helping and what's not .... I will continue to give him the herbal stuff though until it's gone. It surely can't hurt. But of course, I wouldn't spend my money on this stuff for a well horse either. I would tend to disagree with you about the adjustment. We saw releif in his eyes after several of his neck vertabrae were adjusted. I am a beleiver in chiropractic now for sure. (never really used it before)
Well, hopefully more bright news to come.
Lisa
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Friday, Aug 6, 2004 - 11:17 am:
Lisa-so glad Brooke is doing better! I know a lot of vets don't agree with the homeopathic and chiropractic stuff; and I don't understand how it does work, but I agree that in many cases it does help. I've seen it help a couple of my horses. However, I usually call the vet first. It's great that you have a vet and therapist that work together.
Keep us posted.
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Member:
Deggert
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Posted on Friday, Aug 6, 2004 - 12:49 pm:
Lisa
so glad your horse is better. I totally agree with you to try what you can. Unfortunately in a crisis you don't have time to try one thing at a time and see which one works. When my filly hurt her neck 16 years ago, she did have ataxia in all 4 limbs. Luckily I had a great vet who called in a vet with extensive experience with neurological testing. The results were either cervical trauma or EPM. We treated for both including drugs to reduce swelling to the spinal cord. After 4 months she was much better and they said she was fine. But she still looked stilted in her gait her neck was going more U-neck instead of the way it was before. I asked my vet if I could have a chiropractor look at her (back then they were few and far between) he said he thought it wouldn't hurt. The chiropractor looked her over and just felt her neck, she said it felt like a train that was off track. Long story short, we gently worked on her for 6 months as needed plus she gave me exercises for her to do. We also did acupuncture with a DVM. I believe it saved her riding career because before these additional treatments she looked like she would be a pasture ornament. In the end she quit dragging her back toes, she bent her front knees normally, her neck came up and over (not ewe-necked) These things would happen as soon as the adjustment was over, it was amazing. Good Luck to you.
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Member:
Ryle
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Posted on Friday, Aug 6, 2004 - 1:56 pm:
Lisa,
I don't think Dr. O. is saying that the adjustment is useless, just that it (like so many other treatments used to heal) can be dangerous if done in certain situations. If there is a fracture that isn't out of alignment and then you "adjust" the area, you run the risk of dislocating the ends of the fracture and damaging the spinal cord.
I've had a chiropractor work on my back before and know that it can really help, but it can be dangerous in certain situations.
I'm glad your horse is looking better.
Cindy D.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 7, 2004 - 10:11 am:
You don't have to argue with the results Lisa. The results are the result of all the well established antinflammatory therapies and time, not the homeopathic nonsense. And don't discount the bute and Banamine: you do not know how bad things could have got without them. Cynthia is correct: chiropractic in this case carried a substantial risk that could have been improved with radiographs. I am glad it seems to have worked out but it could have gone poorly.
DrO
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Member:
Lisamg
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 8, 2004 - 10:20 pm:
DrO;
Both the Chiropractor (who is also a DVM) and my normal equine vet did not feel the x-rays necessary. They have seen the horse, respectfully, you have not. I trust their judgements, and like you said, I can't ague with the results .... all went well, very well actually.
We have Brooks' front end almost normal. Head carriage is normal, NO swelling at all left in his head . However, what swelling that was once in his neck has now moved first to his withers and now into his back. Only on the left side, of course. We have no issues now on the right side anymore. We have been icing 3 x per day for 20 min. DMSO 2 x per day on the swellings that are left. And Brooks is back on bute as of tonight. He is through with his steriods now. He has also developed swelling on his left hind quarters. (on top of his croup and on top in back). We have started to DMSO that too. Don't think is a cramp, just swelling. He can walk much more freely now, but gaurds his left side and is still somewhat stiff. His neck flexiblity is starting to come back little by litte. However, we now have the opposite problem that we had originaly. He now cannot lower his head. The swelling on his back makes it too uncomfortable. So he's not getting much grazing. He's still eating out of his hay bag in his stall for most of his roughage. We also had one day, Friday I think, that his urine was dark (I only saw him pee once so don't know if it was all day or just one time). I figure from all the muscle/soft tissue damage ... but it also has returned to normal now. (glad of that!)
He's got a good attitude .... loves all the attention and primping. Also has started to be a little obnoxious .... nice to have my boy back. I'll be calling his regular equine vet for more bute .... which I'm sure we'll need. Also to ask about the new swellings.
The bad thing is this is the season where we live (Michigan) that the "747" horseflies and the even bigger "jumbo jet" flies are out and driving horses crazy. Poor Brooks has little defense against these pests. (Fly spray doesn't even begin to scare these flies ... and they know just where to land on a horse as to not be reachable). I hear him verbally grunt when one lands on him. He has learned to come to us for assistance against these horrible flies. But I don't want to keep him in, he needs to move about.
I'll be glad when these pests are gone and so will Brooks!!!
Hope my health holds out ... I have both parents in the hospital as well as Brooks to care for! (times are not that great right now)
Thanks for listening .... and responding.
Lisa
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Aug 9, 2004 - 7:59 am:
Things will get better I am sure, keep us informed about your progress.
DrO
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Member:
Cowgrl
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Posted on Monday, Aug 9, 2004 - 10:45 am:
Lisa, Have you looked into fly sheet covers for Brooke? I hear the Cashel sheets are excellent but are a little spendy. I really feel for the guy.
Glad to hear your boy is getting better all the time.
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Member:
Lisamg
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Posted on Monday, Aug 9, 2004 - 2:24 pm:
Holly;
Hadn't thought about that ..... I usually never blanket (or fly sheet) my horses unless they are at a competition (at which we are always camping) and have no protection from the elements. It's an idea, so far he hasn't gotten any bites (they are obvious ..... leave a huge knot). It's something to consider though if he does start getting bit. (right now they are just chasing him around) They seem to like the dark horses better, Brooks is gray. At least he's got that going for him. Hopefully they will taper off after this week. The season usually runs about 2 weeks....first two weeks in August. We're almost there. I'll check it out though.
Thanks
Lisa
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Monday, Aug 9, 2004 - 2:42 pm:
Lisa,
Holly has a good idea...you can also get a cheap $20 one.
ps. Hang in there...it will get better! Positive thoughts coming to you and yours.
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Monday, Aug 9, 2004 - 10:27 pm:
Lisa, I sympathize and empathize with you. I have parents in their early 90's, and know they can be a worry and take up a lot of time, too. I'm glad Brooke is doing better. I wonder why the swelling in the croup area? I'll be looking forward to hearing what you learn.
I hope you are making the time to take care of yourself - getting proper rest and all. "This to shall pass" as my grand mother used to say. Hang in there.
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Member:
Ajudson1
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 10, 2004 - 9:46 am:
Lisa,
Positive thoughts coming to you from me too. I also live in MI so I hope my "positive energy" is really getting to you in full force being it don't have to travel too far!!
My belief is "God only Gives You As Much as He Thinks you Can Handle".
And "There's a Reason For Everything That Happens"
"Look for the Silver Lining Inside Every Cloud"
O.K., knock me off my soap box now!!!
Grin, and take care of yourself!!
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Member:
Lisamg
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 10, 2004 - 10:21 am:
Aileen;
Thanks for the idea, I was willing to try it, but
unfortunately, a fly sheet is not going to work. These flies bite right through clothing, so I'm sure they will bite through the fly sheet. (my husband got bit yesterday through his shirt). Brooks is getting a lot of exercise as are the rest of our horses. Hope they are gone by next week. Thanks for the idea though.
Sara;
Talked to my vet yesterday. The swelling on Brooks' croup matches the swelling down that whole left side of his body. Remember he was wrapped up like a pretzel, involoving his whole left side.
When he head was stuck in the "down" position it kept the skin on his back and croup tight, so it couldn't swell much. Kind of like when you wrap their legs to keep out filling. Now that his head is upright, the swelling (that was always there but not as noticeable) just filled in. The bute has helped a lot. It's about 50% down now.
Angie;
Thanks for the encouragement. I know God doesn't give you more than you can handle ..... sometimes it's just hard to figure out why. Times are definitely tough right now. Brooks is improving though, which makes a little sunshine in an otherwise very dark world right now. My Dad's time is short .... at least there are 7 pairs of bright eyes (I'm talking about my horses, and donkey, of course) to comfort me. Perhaps all this "personal" time with Brooks is actually a blessing. He's getting quite spoiled you know. Last night he was "little mister wiggle worm" and wouldn't stand still while being iced. This is his normal personality, so he's feeling pretty good. Couldn't keep things out of his mouth, (i.e. my shirt, the cross ties, his lead rope). Somehow all that mischief cheers me up.
Lisa
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Member:
Shirl
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 10, 2004 - 1:45 pm:
Lisa, Prayers are with you. I know what our animals can mean to us at a time like that. Been there, done that. Take good care of you too.
With love, Shirl
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Member:
Littlet
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 10, 2004 - 9:31 pm:
Hello from another horse person in SW MI. The fly's are in full force here as well. I have been following this thread & just wanted to say that I am sorry that your horse had an accident, they do find any & every way to get hurt. LOL You are going threw a lot right now, hang in there & know there are people out here rooting for you. Terri
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Member:
Lisamg
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 11, 2004 - 10:35 am:
Shirley & Teresa;
Thanks for the support .... every little bit helps.
Lisa
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Member:
Lisamg
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 21, 2004 - 8:48 am:
Hello All;
Just wanted to update on Brooks' progress. At first glance there is little to betray his injury. Most of his abrasions have new hair growing in. He runs again, just for the fun of it. And looks as fast as he's ever been. In all respects he appears to be sound although I have not gotten him on a lunge line to check for sure. All swelling is gone, he still has some stiffness but even that is getting less and less.
But since this was not a simple injury, you know there would have to be complications. This morning my husband noticed that the muscles along Brooks' back (the left side that had been swollen from the injury) are now begining to atrophy. It appears this will be a long recovery. He has another chiropractic visit on Tuesday, and our vet is coming (for another reason) on Thursday so I'll have him check him out. I'm guessing he'll tell me all I can do is let him rest.
I'll try to update next week after both vets have been out.
Lisa
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 21, 2004 - 10:20 am:
Thanks for the update. It sounds like Brooke is at least feeling better - which is a big step in the right direction. Let us know what the vet has to say.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 22, 2004 - 10:02 am:
Thanks for the update Lisa.
DrO
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Member:
Lisamg
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 25, 2004 - 11:55 am:
}
Hello All;
Well, my vet came out and looked at Brooks. Said he'd never seen muscle atrophy like that before, and that basically time and rest should take care of it. He seemed amazed that Brooks is sound. He is sound, I did get him on a lunge line last weekend and my husband and I scrutinized his gaits and still saw nothing.
Then yesterday, the chiropractor came out. She was VERY pleased to see how he's improved. She saw Brooks at his worst and congratulated us on taking such good care of him. She completed his adjustment but there really wasn't much for her to do. She suggested that I start riding him for short periods.
Now here is my dilemma, do I ride him or not? Dr. O. what would you suggest?
The muscle atrophy is mild as described by the chiro. dr. Basically he is concave where he should be convex along the left side of his spine between the spine and his rib cage. His ribs are not showing or anything. I just don't want to damage him by putting weight on him where he doesn't have muscle to cushion it.
I'll take the praise from the chiropractor and my equine vet for the time we spent on Brooks but I think most of the praise has to go to Brooks himself. I really believe his quick recovery and level of recovery has to do with his altheticism and the level of fitness he was in, which was peak. His young age also probably played a role as well (he's only 9, which in book is still young....I have a 25 year old who still competes and wins regularly in competitive trail so you can see where I get that opinion).
Let me know what you all think. I'd love to start riding him again, but not at the expense of his recovery.
Lisa
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 25, 2004 - 12:09 pm:
Great update!!!!!
What about groundwork (longlining, lunging -- something along those lines) for a couple of weeks and see how he does, then take it from there?
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Member:
Lisamg
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 25, 2004 - 2:19 pm:
Aileen;
I thought about that too. I'm more inclined to pony him some. Not real fond of lunging unless for short periods. I do free lunge though ... could do that too. I think he'll do just fine at any ground work, as he's quite active outside already. We have a long lane that leads to the pastures and he just loves to come blasting up that lane. (sometimes several times back and forth in a row, just for fun). It's about 1/8 of a mile (sorry don't know what that would be in meters) so he's still feeling pretty fit. I guess I'm not thinking it would be the work that would be hard on him, but the weight.
I'm also concerned with the fact that the saddle will be unbalanced. I don't own a gel pad (and really don't want to spend the money on one for just this short while) and anything else I would put on him is going to be uneven no matter how much padding I use.
Thanks for the ideas.
Lisa
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Member:
Sunny66
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Posted on Wednesday, Aug 25, 2004 - 2:33 pm:
Sounds like ponying would be a better idea. Good luck to you!
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Aug 27, 2004 - 9:03 am:
Lisa you have to follow the recommendations of those who can actually see the horse. In general I would want as a minimum: a clean set of radiographs, off all meds for 3 weeks, and the atrophy stable for at least 3 months.
In the meantime I would want the neck repeatedly and carefully stretched in both directions to avoid the scarring that is going on in the damaged muscle from limiting neck motion. Essentially you do this by attempting to get the horse to touch each of his elbows with his nose. You work slowly and carefully.
DrO
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Member:
Lisamg
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Posted on Friday, Aug 27, 2004 - 11:30 am:
Dr O;
The stretching exercise is the only "rehab" exercise the the chiro dr. perscribed. (besides the light riding) I did talk again to my regular vet and he suggested only ground work for right now. I'm planning on free lunging for the first week and see how that goes. I totally agree with you though, I think that getting on his back now is just too soon. (I was just looking for affirmation of that, I guess). I would think 3 months is a reasonable time to wait for the atrophy to stablize. My vet explained that the atrophy is a nerve damage issue not necessarily a muscle damage issue alone. I realize it could progress but it doesn't seem to have changed in the past two weeks so far. The odd thing is that, if as my vet says, these muscles maily help the horse move and support his head .... that Brooks' head carriage is so "normal"?? I would think if he was using maily his right side to do this his head carriage would tend to lean to one side. (which it's not).
We will do the stretching exercises ... more carrots and cookies for Brooks. (he'll like that!) I'll approach the free lunging with caution ... and keep you updated.
Thanks for your input.
Lisa
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Member:
Flidder
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 31, 2004 - 2:47 pm:
Hi Lisa,
Followed the thread with real interest and am really glad that you have made so much progress with Brooks}.
I would suggest some massage therapy in addition to the stretching exercises that you are doing to help the atrophy and muscle tone in general. I'm not quite sure what his muscle tone is like now compared to when the injury occurred but it would certainly help recovery and ongoing alignment/repair of the muscle fibres.
I would also agree with your plan to stay away from ridden exercise for now given that saddles/riders (no offence intended !!!) can only compound the problem before it is as near to full resolution as possible.
In your stretching I would also consider (check with your vet/chiro) some stretches that extend the back - getting Brooks to put his nose in towards his chest & between his forelegs.
If you decide on massage therapy - get the therapist to show you some techniques that you can do yourself 'between visits'.
Of course I am somewhat biased, being a sports massage therapist, but I think it some massage might be of benefit. You might also treat yourself to a massage for timeout/relaxation.
Best of luck
Michelle
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New Member:
Shaylee
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Posted on Wednesday, Sep 1, 2004 - 12:47 pm:
Lisa-
That is great about your horse feeling better! You mentioned awhile ago about doing acupuncture, I was wondering if you had continued with that. I have had great success with acupuncture and also what is called Acuscope therapies. In fact those two are the only things that I can get ANY results from anymore with my horse. She also had a tramatic injury involving her neck, only this was with a fence, many years ago. Just another thought to add to your list!!
ShayLee
P.S. You can get info on acuscope on the interenet if you are interested, or I can answer any questions that I know
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 2, 2004 - 8:04 am:
Though I cannot rule it out, neurogenic atrophy in this location would be unusual, while traumatic degeneration is common to muscles on the neck. The reason is that the nerves arise deep and travel directly to the underside of the muscles. Areas where neurogenic atrophy is common usually have large nerves that travel superficially before they reach the muscle, the shoulder and face are common areas for this.
Concerning the use of Acuscope, this is a transcutaneous/dermal electrical stimulation device using micoramperages. There was a single supportive study of this technique for the use of pain in the 80's there is very little published work with this technique and none in horses. This work needs to be supported by independent confirmation of the 80's work. Also proper amperage, voltage, and other electrical current conditions for horses is unknown making this a medical device completely unsupported by the scientific literature published in refereed journals.
DrO
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Member:
Lisamg
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 2, 2004 - 5:59 pm:
ShayLee;
My Chiropractor only did the accupuncture on the first visit. She was so thrilled with Brooks' progress that she did not feel any further treatment of that kind necessary on her last visit. We were not planning on any more accupuncture treatment just yet as Brooks doesn't seem to have any more "pain" issues.
Dr.O & All;
I may be wishfull thinking .... (or should I say seeing) but I do believe I am starting to see some muscle change in Brooks' back. It seems to be looking more "normal" towards his hips. Like it's filling in from the back to the front. It's certainly gotten no worse. And this is without any additional work as I had a tooth pulled (long story short; abcess, pulled tooth, dry socket...need I say more) and was in too much pain to be doing any work with him besides his stretching exercises. Which, by the way, he's a pro at now. He starts doing the stretches before I ask him .... he loves cookies. I would say he's at least as flexible (if not more so) than he was before the accident. He always was extreemly flexible to the point of getting a lot of comments from others. (not always in a good sense either  ) His extreemly flexible body has always been able to just about fold in half.
Anyway, I'm planning on starting the free lunging over the weekend. It's been about a month since Brooks has done any "work" and he probably lost just a bit of condition. Endurance horses in competition are so fit it takes some time to get "out of shape". Perhaps I'll try to get a digital picture of his back this weekend. I can then put it on the site so you all can see what I'm talking about better.
Dr O, I realize that we're in pretty unique situation ... and that very little advice can be given by any vet I've talked to ... they just haven't seen anything like this before.
More later... hopefully with a picture or two.
Lisa
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Member:
Sross
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Posted on Friday, Sep 3, 2004 - 5:17 pm:
Funny-
My Arab/Saddlebred gelding is also super bendy.
When we do our cookie stretches, he'll tie himself into a pretzel to get the goodies! I always do some stretching exercises when I turn him out in the pasture. Someone was walking past the pasture the other day during our stretching exercises, and asked why my horse was doing yoga! 
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Member:
Lisamg
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Posted on Monday, Sep 6, 2004 - 9:42 am:
Hello All;
Well, I have good and bad news. The good news is that I did get the pitures, only you really can't tell much from them. Apparently the light has to be just right to see the atrophe clearly. I've attached them anyway ... you'll probably think after looking at them, that this is "all to do about nothing". But trust me, it is more apparent when viewed "in person".
Now the bad news ....
I had intended to start Brooks back to work this weekend. Well, Sat. was just too hot & humid. Sunday was worse ... 80+ degrees with 96% humidity. I did lunge him on a lunge line for a few minutes and discovered that although he was sound two weeks ago, he is not now. 
He is off on the left front ... what we would call a grade 2 ... which means "difficult to observe at a walk or trotting straight" but readily apparent on a circle. He's not consistently off on every stride. It is possible that it is caused by some other incident as Brooks tends to run a lot, but my personal opinion is that it's from the neck/back injury.
When the Chiropractor was out she mentioned that she saw a hematoma under Brooks' left shoulder blade. Her instructions were to massage the area and apply heat. I must admit at first I didn't think she saw anything (becuase we didn't) ....but now I think there is a definite size difference in the two shoulder blades and the left one is definitely bigger. Dr. O ... what do you think can be done for this at this point? Obviously it's been there for awhile .... the Chiro. Dr. was out two weeks ago and I would guess it's been there longer than that. Now that I know Brooks is not completely sound anymore, should I discontinue my plans to start free lunging him... or would the exercise be benificial? The thought has also crossed my mind that this could be scar tissue forming.
About 5 years ago my older gelding got a kick in the shoulder at an event and was extremely lame. (3 legged). It ended up being nerve damage (am I cursed, or what?) to the nerve that runs horizontally across the shoulder over the leg. Scar tissue started forming around the nerve causing a low grade but persistent lameness. My vet put him on bute and I was instruted to work him everyday. The issue resolved and this horse is still sound and competing (now age 25).
Could this be something similar that I am seeing in Brooks as far as the scar tissue/nerve involvement?
Well, anyway.... here are the pictures. Let me know what you all think.
Lisa
p.s. Apparently my pictures take too many bytes to upload. I'll try again one at a time. If that doesn't work ... sorry but I won't be able to attach them.
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Member:
Lisamg
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Posted on Monday, Sep 6, 2004 - 9:48 am:
All;
Pictures are too big to upload. Sorry.
Lisa
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 7, 2004 - 6:31 am:
The first step Lisa is to localize the source of the lameness and get a firm diagnosis, until then rest and antiinflamatories would be best.
Most photo programs have conversion utilities to reduce the number of kilobytes in a image. Our limit is pretty big at 64k. It does not take too many images that size to make a page difficult to load for those with 56k and slower connections.
DrO
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Member:
Lisamg
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Posted on Tuesday, Sep 7, 2004 - 5:07 pm:
Dr O;
Brooks was worse last night. However, I saw him make one his "fun runs" down our lane toward my "herd boss" gelding. He didn't stop until he was only a few feet from the other gelding, but it was an abrupt hard stop. He then continued on (running of course) past the other gelding to our dirt lot and continued to "play" with one of my other geldings. The limp was obvious while he was playing (although he didn't seem to pay it much mind). So I called my vet today. We are putting him back on bute. He either injured the shoulder doing something similar to what he did yesterday, or my vet feels it could be the hematoma causing pain as it heals. So 3 days of bute ... then see if he is sound ... if not ... 2 more days of bute. Then if he's still not sound we'll evaluate him again.
I'll try to reduce the kilobytes in the picutres and resend them. Hopefully that will work.
Lisa
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Member:
Lisamg
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Posted on Thursday, Sep 23, 2004 - 5:13 pm:
Hello All;
Brooks continues to improve. Everyone (including my vet) thought it would be at least 6 months before we saw his back return to normal. Wrong. I never attached the pictures because by now you just can't tell the difference in either side very well. I can still see the atrophy but only because I know exactly where it was.
Brooks remained unsound to the left though, as soon as he was finished with his round of bute. It would be worse (obvious) in the morning after being in all night and by evening just a hint of uneveness. So I had the vet out today to try and pinpoint the problem. Nothing going on in the lower legs. However, my vet did notice Brooks was less willing to stretch his left leg forward than his right leg. Also he felt some hard spots in his left shoulder. His suggestion was to start riding him (at a walk at first) while putting him on low levels of bute for 3 days. Work gradually up to some light trotting by the 3rd day. I am to check his soundness each day after riding (via lunge line). Then consult with my vet again, and we will re-evaluate depending on how things go.
I was afraid by doing nothing while he was off, that I would be allowing the scar tissue to heal badly and possibly causing permanent lameness. Seeing that he was sound after the injury and not now, scar tissue seems the most probably cause. My vet saw nothing else to explain the lamenss.
So that is where we are now. I must admit I'm excited to be able to ride Brooks again. (which will be tomorrow) But on the other hand, I know mentally he's taken some huge steps backwards (he always does when not ridden regularly) and I dread having to deal with that.  We, of course, will only be walking but there are still gremlins everywhere you know.
I'll let you know how things progress.
Lisa
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Sep 24, 2004 - 8:29 am:
Thanks for the progress report and we will keep our fingers crossed for the lameness.
DrO
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Member:
Lisamg
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Posted on Monday, May 9, 2005 - 5:43 pm:
Hello All;
One final post on Brooks. Saturday (May 7) was his first distance competition since the neck/back injury last August. I have been riding him since the last post in September. Right through the winter blizzards and snow. He really came along nice....... Still I was SURE I could see a slight lameness on his left side if I looked real hard when he was on the lunge line. To those of you who are not familiar with this synDrOme ....it's a game we distance horse owners play to try to convince ourselves somethings wrong. Even when it's not.
Brooks vetted in just fine. I had originaly wanted his first distance event to be an easy 25 mile Limited Distance Endurance ride in mid April, but we ended up not being able to attend that ride. I was too afraid to try a 50 endurance with him being out of competition so long, and just recovering from his injury. So I compromised and rode a 35 mile competitive ride with my husband. I was so proud of Brooks. He had to lead because my husbands mare did not compete last year and was too spooky (too long off the trails I guess) to lead. Brooks led like a champ. And set quite a stiff pace as well. I of course, worried the whole ride. But for nothing, as in the end, Brooks vetted out without loosing any points to fatigue (which is near impossible) and was completely sound. He got 2nd place too.
So, my little "big" horse is back.  And I couldn't be prouder of him.
Lisa
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Monday, May 9, 2005 - 6:07 pm:
Such good news m Lisa!!! And, congradulations on your excellent ride! (and I know about the "game" Not just distance riders play it. I even play it in the middle of the night - waking from a perfectly good sleep because I have a "feeling" or hear a noise.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 6:35 am:
Sounds great Lisa, it has been a long road to that ride and 2nd place is so sweet making it all worthwhile.
DrO
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Member:
Srobert
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Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 6:47 am:
Lisa: I am just so delighted to hear that Brookes is back! What an amazing story and I love happy endings. Thanks for sharing it and kudos to you and Brookes for your fine showing at the trail ride.
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Member:
Lisamg
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Posted on Tuesday, May 10, 2005 - 4:18 pm:
All;
Thanks for your support through this whole affair. You were all very helpful. I've heard said that a great distance horse has to have a great story. Brooks certainly has his. I never took pictures though to prove it, as just looking at it was bad enough. In retrospect, now I wish I had.
I'm so looking forward to the next ride (in June). I think I appreciate him more now than I would have if nothing happened to him.
Miles of Smiles
Lisa
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