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  Discussion on Is there any hope for a Wobbler?
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Member:
Lexi

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 29, 2004 - 7:06 pm:

After much exploration following a fall my 3 year old homebred gelding Ti has been diagnosed with Wobbler SynDrOme based on increased uptake in each vertebrae in the scintigraphy and narrow spinal canal in comparison to the big bony bit (excuse my lack of scientific terms!).Full details of his symptoms are on the Diagnosing neurological diseases/diagnosis by scintigraphy post when I still had hope. I have read the Wobbler CSM pages and posts and sympathise with all you folk in the same position.
The figures from the radiograph were C3 canal 21/bony bit 50, C4-5 canal 23/bony bit 49, C5-6 canal 24, bony bit57 and C7 canal 30, bony bit 58.The vet said a ratio of less than 50% was cause for concern. As so many points are involved surgery was ruled out so I am devastated as I cannot face the thought of losing him.At present he varies 1-2 to 6-7 out of 10 lame but usually 2ish.
I would appreciate it if you could help with the answers to some questions:
1 - Is the condition painful?
2 - Is it progressive? Always, usually or some cases? Can it be stable - if so is there any way of knowing if the growth that's impinging has finished?
3 - As Ti is 3 and about 15.2/3hh (Mum is a coloured cob, Dad is a warmblood x TB)has he finished growing or could further growth worsen his symptoms?
4 - While in last 3rd of pregnancy and suckling Mum was fed Youngstock pellets - surely these are balanced and shouldn't contribute as otherwise he has only had grass/hay/molassed chaff.Can any dietary changes now help him?
5 - Is it always genetic and does anyone know if passes by male/female line as I still have the mare but would not like to breed from her again if there is a risk?
6 - How quickly can the bone growth occur as he seemed fine before the fall yet the vet thinks the Wobblers caused the fall - he fell in May. He also fell head first over a gate as a foal and his breaker used a tie down on him in April - Could either of these caused the damage? He also windsucks a lot - I don't suppose arching his neck would cause/worsen things?

Sorry to ask so much but my mind is racing and I want to make his life as good as possible.
Thanks for all your help
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 5, 2004 - 9:45 am:

Hello Jo,
I am sorry to hear about your horse. Taking your questions in order:
1) To the extent that he guards his neck from movement it will be painful.
2) Often
3) How many months old is he?
4) Probably Not
5) This is not known so there is a risk.
6) I don't really understand what bone growth you are referring to. Yes the fall could have caused the damage. The windsucking is probably not significant.
Member:
Lexi

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 5, 2004 - 7:45 pm:

Thank you for the info.
Ti does not move his neck stiffly and willingly flexes round to his girth to both sides and to his chest and doesn't seem any worse after doing so...he also walks backwards easily and normally. His only abnormality is dragging his hind toes and becoming unbalanced/sliding/knuckling over on off fetlock when slowing down.Would this indicate that the damage is not yet permanent or that the cord is only compressed during certain movements?

He is 3yrs 6 months old ie 42 months old so will his skeleton/spine be full size?

The bone growth I meant was the vertebrae arch thing that is narrow so impinging on the spinal canal. He had no symptoms before May but was only backed in April so it kind of co-incides with increased work. As so many vertebrae were involved and there was no sign of fracture on the X rays the vet suggested it may be genetic or congenital as the fall causing the first sign of lameness only affected his neck in a self righting way rather than directly.But it just seems strange that I didn't notice anything before even when I rode him. Could hyperflexion in side reins damage all the vertebrae to this extent?

My vet has recommended high doses of Glucosamine to help prevent further damage but I can't find any information on this except as a treatment for arthritis...surely laying down more cartilage/bone will make the spinal canal gap smaller?

I was also told that further twists and turns could damage the cord more and I read on a University of Kentucky site that there is some success with confinement and aggressive nutritional management...is this with foals or is it worth a try? If so whatis'aggressive nutritional management'? He is out in an acre paddock, has no hard feed just grass, hay and chaff.

Thanks so much for this site...I can never think clearly to ask my vet the right questions at the time so you are a godsend!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Oct 6, 2004 - 7:49 am:

Thanks for the kudos Jo.

The mildness of symptoms suggest that if the defect is stabilized right now he might improve to usable. Radiographically there might still be some open physis's, particularly those of the dorsal spinous processes, at 42 months of age the skeleton is full size. You think of the narrowing as a bony growth issue which may not be the main issue. Compression often comes because of improper alignment of the vertebrae where the lower edge traps the spinal cord against the upper edge of the adjacent vertebrae during flexion. There is an instability in the joint. Overtime this instability can result in arthritis, and bony growth then does become an issue, which is the reason for the glucosamine.

Yes your horse at 3 is well past the time research has shown that dietary management might effect the outcome. However enforced rest will slow down the progression which is caused by recurring small traumas.
DrO
Member:
Lexi

Posted on Thursday, Oct 7, 2004 - 5:16 pm:

Thanks that has given me some hope - he will only ever be a companion and/or pleasure ride now so in your opinion would it be worth putting him in a stable/small yard for a period?...is there a critical time or will the 'traumas' of field life make him worse whenever he is turned out as obviously box rest is no life for him long term?
You mentioned instability in vertebrae alignment...would a chiropractor/physio be any help?
Also is there any supplement or medication that would reduce swelling in the nervous tissue? I know I'm grasping at straws!
Member:
Drlarry

Posted on Thursday, Oct 7, 2004 - 6:40 pm:

Dear Jo and others,

If there's vertebral instability, *that* problem might respond to a chiropractic adjustment, but if there truly are Wobbler's SynDrOme issues, they probably won't. The trouble there is not a chiropractic issue - it's narrowing of the canal that the spinal cord travels through.

Chiropractic adjustments help to restore normal function when normal structures exist.

Dr Larry
---
Dr Larry Allen
Doctor of Chiropractic
Certified Animal Chiropractor
President, American Veterinary Chiropractic Association
"If it has a Spine, I'll Adjust It!"™
(951) 852-1600
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Oct 9, 2004 - 1:05 pm:

Hello DrL and welcome. I feel strongly that adjusting a spine that is exerting pressure on the cord would be contraindicated as the motion may further damage the cord. Jo you could try bute or genrally more effective glucocorticoids (dexamethasone or prednisolone).
DrO
Member:
Lexi

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 16, 2005 - 3:09 pm:

1 - Thanks again for support so far...I know I am now paranoid but I seem to be noticing signs in my mare that are similar to Ti's (he is her son!)She is 12 and I have owned her 8 years during which she has been sound but she stumbles a lot and actually fell over (a stone I think!)when walking when pregnant! She is lazy to ride so I have always put it down to this. Her tail is quite limp to handle and there's no resistance the same as with Ti's and she sometimes knuckles over on a hind fetlock if turning suddenly at speed - I thought all this was normal until Ti's diagnosis but now I wonder if it is possible that she has very mild grade wobblers and passed it on genetically?(she passed the vet exam aged 4 and can jump fences 2-3ft ok without hitting them, canter circles on line etc). She doesn't fail any of the other tests an owner can do and doesn't seem worse after turns, hills etc like he does.

2 - Also is it possible for damage to the spinal cord to be done but signs only appear weeks/months later as I recall Ti did run back and nearly sit down the 1st time we had side reins on him. I rode him for a few weeks after this - just slow hacks mainly at walk on the farm and didn't notice any problems but could swelling etc build up? I only ask as watching video footage of him he seemed very loose moving/long striding before the fall that I attribute the injury to (as after it he was lame and symptoms were obvious). I just can't believe a fall where the hind end slips could cause such damage to his neck??

3 - Also did I do damage by leading him in a halter practically from day 1 (as there is traffic between the stable and paddock). I now know I should have used a harness or something as the head neck bones are softer and could this have made him a wobbler - I'd hate to repeat this on another foal.
4 - He was also born with big knees and stayed over at the knee for some time so would this have put him in risk category risk for DOD and CSM - just so as next time I could alter diet/exercise and watch for signs.

Thanks so much for any advice as I've found this last year traumatic with Ti, my 'baby', and would hate to go through it again so would like to avoid any possible causes for future foals.}
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Feb 17, 2005 - 7:34 am:

1) Unlikely she is a Wobbler.
2) Usually symptoms improve with time not worsen.
3) No you did not cause your horse to be a Wobbler just because you lead with a halter.
4) This is a more difficult question. There does appear to be a relation between overnutrition and the development of Wobblers, so I would review my feeding practices with a aim to keeping the condition of all the animals in the moderate to moderately fleshy range. See our articles on nutrition for more on this.
DrO
New Member:
Nanag

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 8, 2006 - 8:21 am:

I have a 6yr old Hannoveranian gelding, standing almost 180cm.
He has been checked by a vet twice over the past two weeks. By observation, video footage and neurological tests (small circles, tale-pulling, neck bending) the vet suggests that he may be a wobbler. He will be taken to an experienced horse-clinic next week for further tests, but from my reading on the symptoms and his history (OCD), rapid growth etc. I find the diagnosis likely.

At this point I will go far to keep the horse as a dressage horse as he has overwhelming capacity and an excellent character. The goal is competition at intermediate level at local shows. The vet advises against this as it is not clear whether his balance will stand further collection and bending.

None of the present alternatives are really attractive for the horse or myself.

I think he might be a mild case, as his troubles only appear to an observant eye at this point. He moves the hind legs unevenly at all times at walk and appears uncoordinated when making transitions from trot to walk by himself, but not when assisted by a rider. He has improved a lot on balance and self-carriage since the outset 6 months ago, but the vet says improvement may not continue.

Will the synDrOme and its symptoms stay as they are at present or will he most likely get worse?

Will further training have a negative impact (I suppose this depends on where trouble is located?)?

Is there any information I could gain on his history that would help inform me and the vets about his future possibilities? Fx. how long he has actually been showing the symptoms?

Thank you
Nana
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Mar 9, 2006 - 7:11 am:

Welcome Nana,
I am sorry to hear of your predicament and hope the test for Wobblers turns our negative. As you suggest in your post. without knowing what is wrong with your horse we cannot predict his future. However Wobblers is a well defined entity and we can discuss the typical Wobblers. You will find this information in the article associated with this forum. You can get to it by clicking Wobblers or Cervical Stenotic Myelopathy on the navigation bar above. If after reading it you need more information or clarification you can start a new discussion on that page. The link for starting it is at the bottom of the list of discussions.
DrO
Member:
Lexi

Posted on Monday, Nov 13, 2006 - 2:31 pm:

Hi
Shawna's recent post on her Wobbler has got me thinking again. My Ti is now 2 years on from his diagnosis and is 5 and a half. He seems no worse and lives life at pasture as a companion and weaning 'uncle'. I am doing clicker training with him as he waits at the gate and seems to miss the human fuss and attention.Could Dr O or a chiropractor out there please explain how the neck vertebrae move (what they can and cannot normally do). I thought they are like a 'S' from poll to withers with the main rotation being forward ie up/down.
When is the spinal cord likely to be compressed if the canal is too narrow C3-C6? The only time Ti has seemed affected is when he was trailered to my new grazing and this was after his head/neck were outstretched on the ramp - surely this is when the cord should be not compressed and compressed on flexion? I just wanted to make sure none of the clicker tricks will involve neck movements that will aggravate the condition - I assumed up/down was OK as he grazes OK!
Also he windsucks a lot, even on the other horses backs (obviously not good when he is out with weanlings!)- would it be OK to use a miracle collar on him despite the Wobblers as this only comes into play when the neck over flexes - in fact is this any good as a preventative for him flexing if this is when compression is likely?
Thanks again for all your help and advice.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Nov 13, 2006 - 7:59 pm:

My experience is that severe Wobblers both avoid lateral and ventral flexion. Milder cases behave differently, so I suppose different cases have different instabilities. At the bottom I am not sure there is any test you can do to evaluate whether what you are doing is increasing the rate of degradation of the spinal cord other than whether he seems worse on days following training.
DrO
Member:
lexi

Posted on Friday, Jul 6, 2007 - 2:51 pm:

It's now nearly 3 years since Ti's diagnosis. Until two days ago Ti seemed to be a normal horse with slightly loose paces. A couple of mornings ago he seemed dopey with a low head carriage and I thought he'd just woken but this knee/chest height head carriage has persisted. He grazes normally but has stopped wind sucking which he used to do frequently as he doesn't raise his head high enough. He will raise it for food and bend it to either shoulder for a treat willingly. I have given him bute and this seems to improve things ie more normal head carriage. It is hard to tell if he is lame (slight nod as right for hits ground)due to his strange loose gait anyway. Before I call the vet (who thought he should be put down when he was diagnosed as he was unreasonably concerned for my safety)is there any injury that could cause these symptoms other than his wobblers that I could check for - no obvious marks, heat or swelling and nerve blocks etc hard to interpret with his condition. Could a shoulder injury make him reluctant to raise his head? He is eating, defecating as normal but I guess something is painful as it responded to bute. The weather here has been awful and the ground is very slippery so I wonder of he has slipped but I don't want to go down the road of wrapping him in cotton wool - he must have a normal horse life for as long as possible and hates being kept in or away from his herd.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Jul 8, 2007 - 7:34 am:

This is a difficult question to answer Jo W.,
You should analyze the vital signs and evaluate any lameness but none of this really answers the question why the horse is holding head low. Certainly if something turns up it may help explain why but that depends on what turns up. In general shoulder injuries do not cause a low head carriage.
DrO
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