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Discussion on Heaves, Feed, & Venitpulmin
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Member:
Kcovell
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Posted on Friday, Oct 1, 2004 - 6:01 am:
I really couldn't figure out where to post this since it covers several things.
My 18 yr. old mare has had summer pasture heaves since she was 5 yrs. old.
After the first frost I am able to put her back out on pasture until around May.
I used her for barrel racing and if she showed any symptoms over the years I have used several different things.
Since she was around 10 I started feeding her Equine Adult and then moved to Equine Senior, and alicia hay, however now I have some problems.
My feed store started buying it's alicia hay from someone else and my horse started showing her heaves symptoms (double what they usually look like) so I took her off the hay and put her on alfala.
I also put her back on Ventipulmin, 5cc bid.
I started looking for a feed with beet pulp in it that I could buy in my area. I know there were a couple, Complete Advantage and MannaPro Sweet/Rely.
My feed dealer told me Purnia no longer makes Complete Advantage and recommended Race Ready with contains beet pulp and he said is similar to Complete Advantage.
My questions are: Race Ready contains 10% Roughage Products, is that considered a complete feed if I have to take her off all hay?
Do you know of any feeds that are complete feeds for heavy horses?
And what are your thoughts on Ventipulmin compared to Prednisolone (I've never tried it)?
Thanks
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Oct 1, 2004 - 12:05 pm:
Hello KC,
This is a great place to put this. No I don't think 10% Forage is enough roughage and I would be considering using straight beet pulp. We have been working on a rewrite of the article on Heaves that I went ahead and finished it up this morning. It answers all your questions in detail and includes links to articles on feeding beet pulp and clenbuterol (Ventipulmin). Let me know if you have any question after reading it.
DrO
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Member:
Deggert
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Posted on Friday, Oct 1, 2004 - 1:57 pm:
KC
I know spraying or soaking the hay can help alot.
Alfalfa is a dust culprit because if cut when the ground is real dusty all the leaves store dust.
My old mare does very well on half soaked pellets and half long stem hay :>
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Oct 1, 2004 - 4:08 pm:
Hello Debbie,
My experience with dozens of COPD horses and the research suggest different see the article for more on this.
DrO
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Member:
Deggert
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Posted on Friday, Oct 1, 2004 - 5:41 pm:
Sorry, I was thinking more of a dust cough we get here from all baled hay , which might be spores too as opposed to dust...it was advised that we wet the hay and increase ventilation etc. It seems to effect the young horses more then they outgrow it or maybe they acquire immunity...what do you think Dr O? I had one 2 yr old I had to put on Ventipulmin for a few months.
I heard Triple Crown Nutriton has cubes that are processed under high heat to kill spores. Good luck KC
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Member:
Kcovell
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 2, 2004 - 5:11 am:
When I wrote my post I was afraid I was going to have to put my horse down. I found out that a vet I had used 20 yrs. ago, who took another job was now back in practice. He is the only vet I would trust enough that if he told me it would be better for my horse to put her down I would without question.
Anyway he's back to practicing full time and I called him out. He said she was really struggling to breathe, but with some work we could help her feel better.
Dr. O I know you like prednisolone (sic) better, but he gave her dex. IV and then I'm to give it to her for the next 4 days lowering the dose as I do. Of course I can't give IV shots so he said I can squirt it in her mouth (I don't like giving im shots either).
I'm to start uping the Ventipulmin from 6cc to 7cc and he said I can go as high as 10cc. He said to watch her and see what dose seems to give her more relief.
He's getting me some powdered dex and an antihisamine (I can't remember the name), but it's not Trihist.
Just to let everyone know I e-mailed Purina and they still make Complete Advantage apparently my Purina dealer doesn't know what he is talking about.
Dr. O I'm going to read your new article today and thanks to you and everyone else for the help and ideas.
I'm open to anymore if someone has one.
KC
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 3, 2004 - 8:12 am:
Debbie, young horses are also more prone to URT infections that leave their pharynx sensitive sometimes for months. We discuss barn coughs at Equine Diseases » Respiratory System » Chronic Cough Without Fever. Heat dried hays are available usually as cubes but I have seen it as a compressed bale in a plastic bag.
Read the articles carefully KC: prednisolone for maintenancy, Dex for acute fast response.
DrO
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Member:
Tlcstabl
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Posted on Monday, Oct 4, 2004 - 8:09 am:
For those of you with the heaves and/or COPD horses, you may want to look into a product from Springtime called "Breather Powder" and "Race Paste". These are natural products that I have had very good results with for both types of horse that been in my barn. I think their website is www.springtime.com or just do a search and you can come up with it. (Sorry I'm at work and my resources are at home.)
Just wanted to toss another option out there in the mix....
Good luck,
Sherry
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Member:
Eoeo
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Posted on Monday, Oct 4, 2004 - 10:43 am:
Their Joint Health product is the best I have found so far. We are giving it to our 22 year old stallion Basket Weave and he is moving out so much better. He feels like a million bucks. He is actually slide stopping amd rolling over his hocks when he is playing now. Sure didn't do that before. We had him on the ChonDrOitin Sulfate before, but this really did the trick. Saw results in 2 weeks. EO
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Member:
Mrose
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Posted on Monday, Oct 4, 2004 - 12:07 pm:
Try www.steedfeed.com instead of springtime. When I did springtime I got a stone quarry's homepage! Found steedfeed after doing a search.
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Member:
Tlcstabl
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Posted on Monday, Oct 4, 2004 - 12:36 pm:
Found it! Try: www.springtimeinc.com
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Member:
Suzeb
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Posted on Monday, Oct 4, 2004 - 2:09 pm:
KC,
When my gelding had an attack of heaves or difficult breathing, I had the vet out right away.
She prescribed Azium powder to be given orally in descending doses and Ventipulmin. So far we haven't had a repeat of this episode and he doesn't need this medication on a continual basis.
What has helped is that we switched his diet to a cubed hay and he resides in the great outdoors with a good shelter. No more being stalled in a barn for him. Unlike your horse, he can go on pasture, but I think it was the mold spores in the hay that set this off. Careful management practices is what helps my guy breathe.
Hope this helps
Susan B.
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Member:
Kcovell
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 9, 2004 - 5:03 am:
Just to let everyone know my horse is back to her normal "bitchy" self. When she feels bad it's like I have this nice sweet "pet me" horse, but when she feels good she is something else.
I wanted to let Susan know when I refer to dex, I' referring to dexamethason which is Azium.
I didn't know the name of the antihistimine, but it is hyDrOxyzine and he told me to keep her on it, but now I can take her off of everything else.
Thanks
KC
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Member:
Suzeb
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Posted on Saturday, Oct 9, 2004 - 8:51 pm:
KC,
Thank you for letting me know  about the dex. I did have a sneaking suspicion that is what you meant, but you never stated what the drug was. When you have some time you can go into the MEDICATIONS, Alphabetical Index of Drugs section of this site and look up what they are and what they can do. In no way did I mean to compromise your integrity with my post about my gelding and his medications, I was just "Sharing" an experience with what happened and what was prescribed. I am glad to hear that your mare is back to her old self and that is a good indication that they are feeling better. Would you keep us posted on how she does on the antihistamine?
Warmest Regards,
Susan B.
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Member:
Kcovell
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 - 3:15 am:
Susan,
Please don't think I took any offense to anything you said, I'm always open to suggestions and ideas from others. I just get used to using certain abbrevations and I wanted to make sure you and everyone else knew what I meant when I said dex.
In fact if the truth be told I love to hear other peoples ideas and terms they use for different things.
I can alway learn something from everyone.
KC
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Member:
Suzeb
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 13, 2004 - 2:54 pm:
KC,
It should be me apologizing and I do sincerely  . It is just my style of posting and maybe too much attention to detail  , and I don't mean to offend anyone.
You have been managing your mare for 13 years with this condition and that is quite an accomplishment and I really like hearing your kind of story. It gives me hope and a heads up on what to look out for. Like you, I can learn something from everyone , and there are a lot of good people here with more experience than I have with their horses.
By the way, how is your mare doing on the antihistamine?, or is it too soon to tell.
I am sure we can converse in the future KC and keep asking questions, this is a great place to do this.
My best to you,
Susan B.
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New Member:
Herstine
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Posted on Sunday, Oct 24, 2004 - 6:06 pm:
i just joined today and i have a problem with my 6 year old quarterhorse mare. our local vet diagnosed her last summer with heaves, gave her a shot of dex and put her on trihist. he also told us to wet down her hay. this summer we are going through the same problems and i am very frustrated because i cannot get her better. i switched her feed from strategy to a feed with beet pulp, i switched her hay to timothy and grass and still wet it down, she is currently on trihist. i have also tried cough free, and msm. could someone please give me some suggestions? also her breathing is labored even at rest and she coughs when eating}
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Member:
Kcovell
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Posted on Monday, Oct 25, 2004 - 3:50 am:
Hi Gwendolyn
I'm going to tell you what my vet said and did as you can see from my post (KC 10-1-04) my horse that has had heaves since she was 5 and is now 18 just went through a very bad episode.
My horse has summer pasture heaves. I can let her out on pasture after the first frost, but I usually have to bring her in aroung April-June when she begins showing symptoms.
At night I keep her in a stall and in the AM I have a bigger stall with a paddock that I put her out in. I live in Louisiana and this year was very dry and on top of that my feed store changed where they were buying their alicia hay.
When my horse was first diagonised with heaves a vet at LSU, Dr. Bedle, who was doing research told me to feed her a complete feed and no hay.
I found that I could feed her alafa, but I still fed her a complete feed. A few years later I tried the new alicia my feed store was getting and she had no problem until they switched.
I really thought I was going to have to put her down this time, it was that bad.
All of the things you tried don't work and I am speaking from experience.
I had already started her on Ventipulmin, but I was only giving her 3cc twice a day and he said to up it to 6cc twice a day and I could go as high as 10cc, but the 6cc worked.
My vet gave her a shot of dex, gave me 4 more syringes filled with dex in desending doses. Since I don't like to give shots he said I could just give it to her like I do worm medicine, which worked fine.
He also told me to never use Trihist as it causes a horse to sweat. He gave me an antihistimine called HyDrOxyzine. It comes with a very tiny scoop and I give her 1/2 a scoop twice a day.
Dr. O may have something to say about what I'm telling you, but I'll tell you anyway.
Put your horse on a complete feed that contains beet pulp, Purnia makes one called Complete Advantage. Take her off pasture and do not feed her the hay you are feeding and try alfalfa. If she still has a problem with the alfalfa then don't feed her any hay, but my horse hasn't had any problems.
My horse is back to normal and is having no problems, for which I am very greatful.
I hope you get her well. Let me know how things go.
I forgot one thing do not ride her until she is better.
Good Luck
KC
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Oct 25, 2004 - 6:57 am:
Hello Gendolywn,
I often find when new members join and post at the bottom of another's discussion they have not read the main article on their topic. Start with the article associated with this forum, » Equine Diseases » Respiratory System » Heaves & Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease. The quickest way to get to it is by clicking on » Heaves & Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease » at the top of this page. It has very complete information on diagnosis and treatment.
Note: you should take KC's post above lightly because while it has some good general information, some information is specific to her case, and some is wrong (Sorry KC) maybe just part of a story would be fairer.
DrO
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Member:
Kcovell
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 26, 2004 - 5:01 am:
Gwendolyn
I should have added a disclaimer to the end of my post. I am not a vet I was just letting you know about my horse and what I have tried and what worked and what didn't work in my case.
The best thing to do is take the advice of your vet.
KC
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Member:
Kcovell
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 26, 2004 - 5:48 pm:
DrO
I'm really curious to know what advice I gave Gwendolyn was wrong.
Would you please give me some details?
Thanks
KC
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Member:
Herstine
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 26, 2004 - 8:54 pm:
KC
thank you very much for telling me your success story with your horse and giving me suggestions. i have been very frustrated with my horse whisper and i have read so many articles and tried so many different remedies that my head is spinning. i just want to find a way to manage her since there is no cure yet.
we have tried the beet pulp feed for 3 months , and she seems to be loosing weight and has a lot of gas on it so i switched her back to strategy, which she was on from a yearling and i had no problem with it. i am going to keep her on the trihist for 2 weeks and see if that works. i will let you know how things progress. i feel better knowing that there is someone i can talk to this about. thanks again
gwendolyn
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Member:
Herstine
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Posted on Tuesday, Oct 26, 2004 - 9:07 pm:
dr o
thank you for your advise. i did read the article on heaves and copd as soon as i joined. what i got out of the article was that heaves and copd has been around for a while with still no known medications that cure it and that it can only be controlled by managing the horse's environment , but that also depends on each horse. as i understand the case case studies in the article, different management methods vary from horse to horse and region to region. i am just trying to gather information that will help me provide the best treatment for my horse whisper, and unfortunatley there doesnt seem to be a standand management method or treatment for all horses. i guess thats why im so frustrated. i just want something set in stone that will work. thanks again
gwendolyn
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 - 6:02 am:
Hello KC,
While in general your comments were helpful it was not true that, "All of the things you tried don't work." Both the dex for the acute changes and the move to using beet pulp are good moves, she just has not gone far enough yet. We all agree that Trihist is not very helpful.
DrO
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 - 6:31 am:
Hello Gwendolyn,
While it is true there are 2 forms of heaves, their history differentiates them.
For those who have the common form of COPD. Using the therapy outlined in the article I have succesfully managed dozens of horses. Read it carefully there are concrete suggestions there that currently you are not following.
DrO
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Member:
Kcovell
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Posted on Wednesday, Oct 27, 2004 - 6:02 pm:
DrO & Gwendolyn
After re-reading Gwendolyns first post I see, as usual I got carried away and wasn't paying attention.
Dex works, but I was referring to the Trihist, Cough Free, and keeping her on regular hay. I've never used MSM for heaves.
I just put my horse on a beet pulp feed for horses with heaves.
Sorry about my inattention.
KC
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