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  Discussion on Exercise plan
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Member:
Lisapony

Posted on Friday, Dec 3, 2004 - 11:16 am:

Dr. O,

My horse is recovering from Acute Laminitis. One foot affect more than the other. He is now sound and I sarted riding him 2 weeks ago. I started with 20 minutes and he is at 30 minutes now of Walk/trot in our 80x180 indoor. Right now I am doing full arena trotting no circles. Does this sound like a good plan? When can I add some 20 meter circles and a bit of canter. I dont want to do to much but he feels great. He is 10 and was in GREAT shape intil the Acute Laminitis in early July. Thanks!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Dec 4, 2004 - 11:06 am:

Hello Lisa,
Without seeing your horse there are no specific recommendations we can make. In general however I would make the steps up in exercise 3 weeks apart and keep them small steps.
DrO
Member:
Bluesman

Posted on Sunday, Dec 5, 2004 - 5:42 am:

Wow, Your back riding already. I have been told that my mare will be a companion only for the next 18 months to stop any further danger of tearing the newly knitted lamina that have grown together as the hoof grows out. Indeed she is still stabled and doing very very well.
Regards Jan
Member:
Lisapony

Posted on Sunday, Dec 5, 2004 - 12:17 pm:

Jan,

Is your horse sound? My horse is sound and both my vet and farrier says I can ride. He needs more exercise. We have limited sand turnouts so He gets turnout for 90 minutes and ridden for 30. I ride him only in soft sand footing and we do 70% walking. His rotation in the one foot was not much and his foot has grown out almost 50% already. I think every case is differnt. But I have been told exercise once the acute phase is over is important for healing. I would not have thought I would be riding him. But the right trim/shoeing got him sound. He is trotting and cantering around in the turnout like he is a 2!
Member:
Bluesman

Posted on Monday, Dec 6, 2004 - 3:28 am:

Lisa, yes my horse is sound, on soft bed and hard yard. her story is under chronic laminitis abcess. Dr O replied saying that my vet may be being over caucious, but having spent so much money and time, I would hate to ruin the good work that has happened during her recuperation. Its the trimming and shoeing that have done wonders for her as well, We had a great complication with reguard to abcess though, that took a great deal of time to correct and probably put her back a few months. Still each horse is different and if your horse is happier out and about so be it. Mine seems very content to be inside, enjoying her food given to her rather then having to roam for it. Hope all continues to go well.
Regards Jan
Member:
Lisapony

Posted on Monday, Jan 24, 2005 - 4:18 pm:

Dr. O,

Second opinion please. I have been riding my horse for 9 weeks now. He is doing great and is doing 40 minutes of w/t/c and basic dressage (no small circles) My Vet says he can go back to full work of an FEI dressage horse. Which I plan to add to his work load slowly. I am attaching his current xray. This is his Right front. The left was not effected. This happened July 4, 2004 and his foot is about 2/3 grown out. What do you think?
Thanks!

Lisa
ps. He has been sound for about 13 weeks.

Miko RF Xray
Member:
Canter

Posted on Monday, Jan 24, 2005 - 4:33 pm:

Hi Lisa,
I have no advice, just a question: in the x-ray above, what are the vertical "spikes" that look like upsidedown golf tees? I'm assuming they are the nails that are holding on the shoe? If so, why only four? Is it because of special shoes due to the laminitis?

I'm simply curious (always trying to learn!), so please forgive me if this is an incredibly dumb and obvious question.

Hope your horse continues to do well!

Thanks,
Fran
Member:
Quatro

Posted on Monday, Jan 24, 2005 - 11:30 pm:

Hey Lisa, I am curious, how did you post your x-ray? I have been trying to figure this out for a while now. It says it is too big of a picture, but I can't figure out how to make it small.
I can see that your horse definately has way more sole than levi does by your x-ray.
any advice on posting
thanks
sue
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 25, 2005 - 6:49 am:

Pretty strong looking recovery Lisa but there is still some recoverable rotation. There are a lot of good features to this foot: there is a huge amount of horn mass at the sole, the rotation is growing out and I like the way they have set the toe back to where they want the edge of the horn of the wall to grow to. Hmmm, just from the radiograph I think I would be taking it a bit slower as I slowly tried to reduce the solar angle with the ground to around 5 degrees but this is not as good advice as you could get from someone who can actually see the horse and viewed sequentel radiographs. What was the initial cause of the founder?

Fran, yes those are nails and the reason there are no more nails is probably the way the shoe is set back. I suspect the nail holes that are further forward do not overly healthy white line/wall horn.
DrO
PS Susan, note there is no "size" requirement as in how big (ie width and height) the actual image is, but it is nice if it is sized to fit our page format here, say no larger than 500 pixels wide. We do limit the size of the file however to keep page downloads a reasonable time for those without high speed internet access. There are image programs out there that will reduce the file size to below our 64 k requirement. By first reducing the physical size to something less than 500 pixels wide while preserving the width/height ratio and then reducing the file size you get better looking images.
Member:
Savage

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 25, 2005 - 9:30 am:

Hi Susan, send me your image and I will be happy to resize it for you :-) send it to the email address in my profile and in the subject line put "Horseadvice - image resize" so I know it's from you

Linda :-)
Member:
Quatro

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 25, 2005 - 10:07 am:

thanks Linda, I will work on that. Appreciate it
sue
Member:
Lisapony

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 25, 2005 - 11:24 am:

Thanks Dr. O.

We do not know the cause. He is neg. for cushings and insulin levels are good. He is 10. My original farrier thinks his feet got worn down this spring to much (he was barefoot at the time) I had called the farrier but he was out of town 8 days before he came up with the laminits. Had I had know how dire it was...

The foot in the xray is the only foot with rotation and is a bit upright. Not really club but more upright. My farrier thinks 2 more trims should have him in VERY good shape. My vet thinks I can start easing in harder things over the next 8 weeks....So I will go slow. I wont do any pirouettes (sp) for awhile : ) I have ALL his xrays and I would like to post the whole case in hopes that it will help someone. I may even put up a web site just for this. If anyone has any ideas...

Susan, I can resize your image too. YOu can send it lisapony@aol.com.

Fran, Dr. O is of course right. Those are nails and set there to help the foot. They are alum. shoes and he was standing on a wood block for the xray.
Member:
Johnsonl

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 25, 2005 - 12:25 pm:

Fellow Horse Lovers, (I just noticed there is a recent discussion going on about laminitis, so this is a good time for me to post my concerns!)

I would appreciate some suggestions/advice and hope (if there is any!) regarding the case of my 17 year-old TB-cross "Buckeye". He was diagnosed with laminitis, and subsequent founder back in June of 2004. He had an 8 degree rotation in his left front coffin bone, and a 12 degree in the right. He never presented with acute founder, just slowly began the eggshell walk back in around the March '04 timeframe. I didn't know what was going on, just that something wasn't right. He never limped and was fine at other gaits. The laminitis finally showed up in his hooves in early June, at which time my farrier (Gary) put him in front shoes with poured pads (Equiphane??). He is the best in the area for founder, and he's done a terrific job with Buckeye. At the present time, x-rays reveal that his 8 degree rotation has been completely corrected and he only has a slight rotation left in the other leg. The vet said he also has "good sole margin" and suggested I start riding him again (Gary said the same thing) by walking him 5 minutes per day. She worked with lots of foundered horses/laminitis cases when she was a vet for a while in England, and her own horse over there , whose founder was as bad as Buckeye's, was going over fences again within 7 months. I am dismayed that Buckeye still has the eggshell walk when I'm on him, so I stopped after trying the 5 min. walk on about 6 or 7 occasions. He trots around with the other horses and breaks into a gallop in pasture now and then, and otherwise seems very healthy and spirited. I have read the articles on his condition on this website and many others, but I am mystified. The vet, my farrier, and I have never been able to identify why he foundered in the first place. I have him on a small amount of senior feed, a hoof supplement, as well as Happy Hoof chaff, and T&A hay. His hooves have not shown any rings, grooves, and he never abscessed. (He only had a blood bruise appear on his sole in the early founder stage). Although it's been about 7 months, and I know it takes about a year for the hoof to grow down from the coronet band, the vet's assessment that I could start riding him, though it appears I can't, has me wondering if he's destined to be a beloved pasture ornament from here on out. I am enormously grateful that he's alive as I treasure him beyond description, but I'm depressed over not riding him ever again. The vet didn't have time to watch me ride him when she came out to give Buckeye his shots recently, when I conveyed how Buckeye felt while riding him. She asked me to lead him at halter and said she couldn't be more pleased, as he was breaking over nicely at the walk, and of course his x-rays look so good. When she comes out again I'll hop on him and she will check him out. Anyway, I'm just depressed and was hoping others could share their stories of their horses' recovery or paths of only "pasture soundness", and how they got there. Care-wise, it appears I'm doing all that's possible. Thank you very much for enduring this long post. Lori J.

PS. Buckeye made it through 2 hurricanes during all of this, and continued to improve! Perhaps his recovery has peaked?? Also, I had him tested for Cushings (negative) and all his blood-work is fine. Please see the pic I posted of my boy - he's wearing his pre-hurricane garb!
Member:
Lisapony

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 25, 2005 - 1:48 pm:

Lori,

Does the horse walk and trot sound on cement? If this is the case then it could just be a riding issue and nothing to do with the laminitis. I would have your vet out to see if he really is sound at the walk and trot (on cement) I have had horses that were laid up for months and when sound they hardly moved when I first got on them. Just have your vet check him out to help you decide if this is the case. Does he look sound trotting in the paddock?

FYI..I did not ride my horse until he was sound on cement and trotting sound in is paddock.
Member:
Quatro

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 25, 2005 - 2:20 pm:

Hi Lori, I know what you are going through. I was put in the same state of mind. I think we need a Founder/Laminitis support group
Especially sharing success stories so we know there is hope
I'm here for ya
sue
Member:
Deggert

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 25, 2005 - 5:53 pm:

Hello
I too have a thread under, Founder Mare with Foal at Side, She has a supporting leg founder occured @ May 28, 2004. She is doing great but we are still being conservative. Still confined to paddock, hoof growth is great now and although we have gingerly shaped her foot we just started to take a little heel etc. She is still unshod, I still put a rubber support on her foot and during the 15 inches of rain in the last 6 weeks
she did very well with an easy boot and a little foam and absorbent material in the boot. We are very happy with her progress, my farrier has truly saved the day, I took her out to walk a few minutes yesterday and she is raring to go. But, each case is new ballgame, we have not rushed to shoe her and it works in her case. Her other 3 feet are shod. I saw her trot and gallop (oh No)
in her small pen (25 feet)the other day and not a lame step, she just feels good. Luckily, she takes care of herself, if it hurt at all she would not bounce around on it. Like Jan, we will take it very slow, we don't want to strain the new laminae, but it sounds like Lisa's horse was a slower chronic laminitis rather than an acute case. good luck to all, I think a laminitis thread for us all would be great, to update the cases and share stories. Jan's rubber boot was the best idea ever, and I have gotten more creative as she has become so active- I am the rubber, glue and duct tape queen.
Member:
Johnsonl

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 25, 2005 - 9:02 pm:

Lisa...Thanks for your reply. He looks very sound trotting and galloping around on an acre of grassy pasture. Also, looks sound to me on a lunge line going in a large circle at the trot in our dirt arena. We have no cement on the property. (He hangs out in his 100 ft dirt run, with access to his stall with rubber mat and soft shavings on top when he's not turned out). It's just the minute I get on him, he shuffles with mincing steps with his head hanging down low, so I know that's the ole "eggshell" walk that revealed the start of this whole ordeal. He's uncomfortable. I'm sure you're right, Lisa...bottom line is to wait for the vet to access him with me on his back. She had suggested we do it sometime when she's out to see one of the other six horses so she could save me the farm call fee, but I'm anxious about it so I think I may bite the bullet and just get her out. (But, I'm having to shell out big bucks for a new roof on my house after the hurricanes so $ is tight! Sigh...)

Susan, Thanks! I truly appreciate your support, and I agree that we need a group of some kind to share our pain and our successes. What a frustrating, mysterious, and heartbreaking condition laminitis/founder is! Guess we'll all just have to keep sharing our stories here. I know it will definitely help me to keep hearing from others. I refuse to give up hope! Thanks to all who write...
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 25, 2005 - 9:51 pm:

The problem with not knowing the orignial cause is that it makes it hard to know when the unknown might reoccur.
DrO
Member:
Quatro

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 25, 2005 - 10:10 pm:

Hi all, I am working on getting the x-rays sent to you guys so you can help. I was wondering if it is ok for levi to be running around the pasture. He was confined back in August when this all started. But we were not diagnosed properly until November. He really was not limping around much, only on a small circle trotting. Otherwise he seemed fine. I have not been instructed by anyone to keep him confined. He runs and plays in the pasture with his new Gucci shoes on, no more Payless shoes for this pony :-) Hope that is ok.
thank
susan
Member:
Lisapony

Posted on Wednesday, Jan 26, 2005 - 11:49 am:

Lori,

If the Vet and you both aggree that the horse is sound without you riding, I bet you have a bit of a training issue or a equipment issue. A poor fitting saddle or teeth that need floating can cause all kinds of problems. Once my horse had a small sore near his girth. When he moved the skin moved and rubbed the sore. He was head bobbing lame! Since the sore was in the folds of his skin and dark, I did not see it at first. Luckily I found it before I called the Vet! I am sure my vet would have had a good laugh...
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Jan 27, 2005 - 7:20 am:

Susan I have moved your image over to your discussion to help with keeping your discussion together. For those who are interested it is at Care for Horses » Hoof Care » Hoof Care Topics Not Covered Above » What is a "Palmer Angle".
DrO

Member:
Johnsonl

Posted on Monday, Jan 31, 2005 - 9:48 pm:

Lisa, I appreciate your input regarding riding equipment possibly being the problem, but Buckeye's teeth were floated about 7 months ago, and his equine dentist (along with the vet) very recently determined they are still in good shape. Also, to minimize the weight he would be bearing I just strapped on a bareback pad.(I put him in the bit he's been wearing for years.) I weigh 130 lbs. and he's never had any trouble before the founder carrying me around for hours on trail. So...I think the only thing to do is to go ahead and have the vet make a special visit. Farrier comes tomorrow to pull shoes and trim, so I'll get his opinion too. It's so frustrating because, as Dr.O says, without knowing WHY he foundered in the first place, I can't prevent the unknown from happening again! He never had an acute phase, just did the eggshell walk thing for a few weeks, next thing I knew he was rotating and sinking. I also want to add my two cents on founder in general: I've seen lots of posting by folks advising those dealing with it to become educated and do lots of research on the topic. That's the natural thing, and smart thing to do of course, since we're dealing with the life of a horse we love! I must say the amount of conflicting research and advice on shoeing/not shoeing, all manner of shoes available, types of trimming is astounding! You can even flip a coin to guess which site is going to advise you to stand your horse in ice when he's in acute founder vs. sites which tell you not to. Then there's the walking vs. no movement, and the turn-out after acute phase vs. no turn-out. Bottom line for me is to trust the results I'm personally seeing from my vet and farrier which is wonderful. My vet told me whomever could solve the problem of laminitis/founder would be rich beyond belief. Enough venting. I'll see what the vet says about Buckeye, but it's strange to me that his last x-rays (about 2 months ago)looked so good, he looks great in pasture, yet he's still off when I'm on him. Maybe 7 months is just too soon. Sigh...thanks for bearing with me! Lori J.
Member:
Quatro

Posted on Monday, Jan 31, 2005 - 11:15 pm:

Hi Lori, I know what you mean about the educating. It does tend to send me into a crazy place. Then I become like an obsessive/compulsive, reading, dreaming laminitis-founder. Today I just went out in the pasture, played hide and seek with the horses, played tug of war with levi and his carpet, took a break from thinking and just enjoyed the essence of my horses. It was a nice mental break.
I go to the vet/farrier in 8 days to see how we are progressing. Will keep you posted.
suz
Member:
Johnsonl

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 1, 2005 - 8:59 pm:

Suz, Thanks for your support and your posting made me laugh out loud! Yes, the obsessive-compulsive research phase has just about driven me crazy too, so I've decided to give it a rest as well. Last night I started attempting to teach Buckeye to give me kisses. He's a smart horse, and I think he's going to be a quick study using the treat-reward system! My farrier comes tomorrow, so I'm hoping for continuing good reports. Providing Buckeye's feet still look good, I'm then going to go ahead and schedule up the vet to come take a look at me riding him at the walk. It's been 7 months now and although his last x-rays were excellent, perhaps he's still healing inside...you know, things that don't show up on the films. Levi sounds like quite the character, much like my boy. Thank God they're still with us, and that's the bottom line in all this. I keep telling myself Buckeye will make a full recovery, but until then...no more research! I'll leave it to the professionals and just enjoy hanging with my fablous Pasture Ornament each and every day. Best of luck to you on Levi...keep us all posted! Lori J.
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