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  Discussion on Lyme - totally new direction with this horse
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Member:
teddyj1

Posted on Thursday, Nov 8, 2007 - 7:41 pm:

Here's what I wrote in another thread regarding my horse: I hope this is what you wanted??

Hi Dr. O , thanks for your comments. Initially I did feel strongly he had EPM, because I purchased this horse at 2 1/2 years old, and had the most meticulous Vetting done at that time. With in 9 mos, he had started tripping, stumbling, and just not right. Since he had just been shipped 1,500+ miles, I thought possibly EPM. The Vet went thru the Neurological exam, and he did appear suspect. The Vet drew blood, and had me immediately start Marquis treatment that day. The blood test came back positive, so he felt we should perform a spinal tap. The tap was also a strong positive, so we continued treatment with follow up neuro exams thru out. The horse was not really responding to the Marquis the first round, in fact slightly worsened, at that point we did a myelogram to check for Wobbler's. Then he started to improve, and we were on our 3rd round of Marquis. Admittedly in retrospective, if his hocks, or stifles were really what was bothering him, then perhaps the time off is what allowed him to improve?? By the same time the following year we were starting to have the same symptoms again, but I had a Chiro/accupunture Vet come work on him, and he did improve. I gave him another winter off, and restarted him the next spring, and that's when I strongly suspected his stifles or hocks were what was really the culprit. A different Vet agreed, so we did a course of Legend, but not much improvement. So that's when we considered Lyme, treated for that, no improvement, did the digital xrays with the original Vet and confirmed " mild changes", but then we scoped and found the grade 3 ulcers, so we felt this was probably more significant than the hocks or stifles. Two more scopings, and 3 months worth of Gastrogard to heal the ulcers, along with another many months off, brings us to this spring. He started off with some resistance at the trot, and I spent 6 weeks, only walking/trotting, and conditioning before we attempted canter again. He was getting better and better, until September, and then right back to shutting down, or bucking upon right lead canter depart. I immediately started Ulcergard, but still haven't seen any improvement. His trot work is incredible(FEI level movement), but even hint at right lead canter and he pins his ears, and makes a horrible face, and then gets a big hump in his back. My trainer assures me I'm not the cause. She tends to still feel it's ulcers, I keep going back to the stifles, because I see/hear the right stifle popping when I hand graze him, or am turning him in a really tight circle. So, am I correct in thinking we could have pushed the canter work(lot's of trot-canter transitions) to the point he's sore, or worried about the canter depart. Sorry to be so long winded, I guess I just feel a little confused since every time a Vet looks at him, they find something new wrong!
I apologize for posting here, I just realized I probably shouldn't have.

Crying in my coffee,
TOD
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Oct 5, 2007 - 7:06 am:

The only note I would like to make is that their are no tests that confirm EPM. A horse can be positive on tests on both the blood and spinal tap and still be negative. There are no myelogram findings that are diagnostic for EPM. However the index of suspicion may go up by ruling out diseases that impinge on the spinal canal.

For horses with signs that are not strongly consistent for EPM and where it is endemic these test identify EPM infected horses accurately less than half the time. In horses with signs strongly consistent with EPM the test will identify infected horses correctly about 85% of the time. That is not to say TOD's horse did not have EPM and the response to therapy raises the suspicion rate, I just wanted to put the "confirm diagnosis" statement in perspective: do to the nature of the disease and that the majority of infected individuals are asymptomatic there still is no way to confirm EPM cases.
DrO
Member:
teddyj1

Posted on Thursday, Nov 8, 2007 - 10:12 am:

Hi Dr. O'
well things have taken a slightly different turn in the past 24 hours. My 6yr old Holsteiner just came back with a Lyme Titer of 20,000,ELISA, and a very strong positive on the Western Blot.
Now the question for me is, is this what I'm really dealing with???
My Vet said that until we treat this, there is no point on doing any further diagnostics( By the way, my Vet says he's not a good candidate for Nerve Blocks , as he's not "Lame" per say, just not comfortable, not "using himself", so blocking him wouldn't really help with the diagnosis).

We live in Connecticut, and my best friends mare has just gone through the same diagnosis(different Vet practice), we have our horses together.

Having read all of the articles on this site as to whether or not Lyme is an actual illness, and what a high titer may, or may not mean, and to muddy the water more, the fact that Vet's in this area feel very strongly Lyme does make horses sick, and a high Titer along with Western Blot, accompanied my symptoms does indicate a real case of Lyme, I as an owner am very confused as to what direction to go.

This Vet treats with IV Tet. at her clinic for 3 weeks, with a cost of $1,700+, 8 weeks of Doxy =$800. So what should I do, what treatment protocol should I go with? Will I be pouring money into something that isn't truly the cause of the symptoms my horse is having.

I'm so confused as to which direction to turn, my Vet had felt Ultra Sound of his Proximal Suspensory was in order until this very strong indication of Lyme came back yesterday.

Please help me go in the right direction with this poor horse, I'm starting to pull my hair out!

Thanks so much,
TOD
Member:
teddyj1

Posted on Thursday, Nov 8, 2007 - 11:43 am:

Forgot to add- ElISA in 2004 was 640, 2006 went up to 2,400 , 2007 is now 20,000+
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Nov 8, 2007 - 5:32 pm:

TOD can you place this under the other posts on this subject so I can review the past history?
DrO
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Nov 9, 2007 - 6:59 am:

Do I understand correctly the only current problem is the horse resists a right lead canter?
DrO
Member:
teddyj1

Posted on Friday, Nov 9, 2007 - 8:11 am:

Good Morning Dr. O, no Sir, the horse will be moving freely,fluidly for days at a time, and then have bouts of tripping, and stumbling, resistance,short strideness (showing slight hip hike on right , and circumduction left hind), drags hind toes at walk,unwilling to pick up right lead canter, all much more obvious in deeper footing, along with attitude change- sensitive over his right hip,-- on the lunge line or under saddle.
He also has a a couple of other odd behaviors, one being- he dislikes being touched on the left side of his Poll, and the second being he often likes to "park out" He's on a lo-carb- high Fat- high Fiber diet, He's turned out 24/7 with access to his stall, and pasture mate. He's worked 4- 5 days a week roughly 45 min.( with trail rides interspersed) Lessons every other week(1 hour) Training Level- starting First Level.
I bought him as a two year old and backed him lightly at 3,some of these symptoms were there all along, but I honestly thought he would Mature out of some things such as toe dragging, tripping, and parking out, especially since his original Vetting he'd been given a clean bill of health.

Hope this clarifies things
TOD
Member:
imogen

Posted on Friday, Nov 9, 2007 - 9:31 am:

Todd do you have a picture of the horse that you could post?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Nov 10, 2007 - 8:30 am:

Tod, to answer your original question of Nov 8th currently there is little good evidence that Lymes disease causes significant symptoms of disease in horses and there is some evidence that, "if it does", it is not common. From what we know now this makes it unlikely that your horse's symptoms are from Lymes disease but I cannot say impossible. If I read your original post right, haven't you already tried to treat for Lymes with no success?

It remains unclear if your problems are training, conformation, disease or some combination of these problems. To further pursue your problems you need to find a veterinarian who can see the symptoms you see and then follow up with appropriate diagnostic work. You will not be able to solve the problem otherwise and using your posts as a guide I would first concentrate on the right rear hip hike.
DrO
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