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Discussion on Tying up or something else?
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Member:
campr2
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Posted on Monday, Nov 12, 2007 - 11:15 am:
I need some direction on my horses condition as I am at a loss. He's a 13 yr old QH,easy keeper, has turnout 24/7 but had not been riden regular for about a year. Three weeks ago I had a trainer begin riding 2 times a week to get him some regular exercise thinking that would be good for him. He did great and I'd told the trainer that he had not been riden for sometime and to take it slow. She started out slow but the rides kept getting longer but he was doing fine. On the 6th ride, which was a Tues, when I got home I found out she had taken him up and down some hills during the ride. On Thursday evening when I went out he was sucked up in the flanks, and very, very sensitive to the touch, expecially around the flank, and under the back of the belly. So sensitive that his skin actually twitches when lightly touched and he moves away. I called the vet and he ruled out colic but told me to not feed that evening and walk him every couple of hours, which I did. My horse had no problem walking, had no temp and his breathing and heart rate were good. Its now been 4 days since the episode and hes still touchy in the flank area and seems still sucked up somewhat. Last night he was still very sensitive to the touch even on the sides of his belly and he still twitchs when touched. I live in Ca. Could he be deficient of Selenium, would that cause this? How much selenium does a 1000# horse require?. Hes on Platinum Performance, grass hay, salt and vit E. He is back to normal rations, but hes still very sensitive and I feel so bad for him. Sometimes he seems worse than others. Hes always been one to come up to be petted and loved on, now he moves away because he cant stand being touched. Any help or direction would be most welcome. Would blood tests help locate the problem? Thanks alot, Donna
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Nov 12, 2007 - 1:48 pm:
Donna blood tests might help you out. You can find out if he has a se defiecency if nothing else.
The hard part of this is other than not liking to be touched he seems fine. As Dr.O. stated in your other post a lot of horses react the same way and can be considered a completely normal behavior.
Has he had vaccinations or have his hooves trimmed recently? Does his saddle fit?
If he is walking normal and his vitals are normal, he may be just a little muscle sore from starting back into an exercise regiment.
Did the bute help him any? If mine get a little sore I usually give them a half dose of banamine and they seem much better.
Could the not wanting to be touched be behavioral? He may not like starting to work again. My old mare don't like to be brushed because she associates it with riding .
When I put Hank back into work he stopped thinking being caught was going to bring fun, and he started walking away from me when he saw a halter or brush. Normally he loves to be brushed....if there is no riding to follow.
You know your horse best and if this is something that really concerns you call your vet and discuss it with him or have him out, if for peace of mind if nothing else Let us know how it turns out.
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Member:
campr2
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Posted on Monday, Nov 12, 2007 - 3:00 pm:
Hi Diane, Thanks for the thoughts. His behavior is way off and he does seem in pain when touched. I just cant understand it. Im going to take your advice and call the vet and get some blood tests to see if anything shows up. I cant think its his saddle, hes sore under his belly near his flank and on his flanks and back a bit. Maybe the rider rode him in the hills to much and he got really sore, but would he be so sensitive to the touch. Im talking about lightly touching him with my fingers. And it was 2 days later, but then it might take a couple of days for soreness to set it, huh? I have read through how to restart a horse thats been sitting and Im going to do that once hes better. Just walking 15 min and then adding to that until he can be rode again. I really liked this girl that rode him to..she seemed very good but Im thinking she did ride him to long and to hard. Thanks for your help Diane. I just hate to see him hurting this way. Otherwise hes a strong healthy horse..or seems to be. Ill let you guys know what I find out. Donna
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Nov 12, 2007 - 4:02 pm:
Donna I'm glad you decided to call your vet. If you want to test for se. I believe you need to request it as it isn't in a "normal" blood workup.
Bad saddle fit can make them sore all over, and I know how hard it is to fit the chubby ones.
Did you ever try the bute or banamine? I know when I started my meter reader job and started walking 12 mi. a day (all up hill) I was very sore and a little ibuprofen went a long way in my discomfort. If you haven't tried an anti inflammatory yet it might be a cheap way to see if it is pain. After a couple days of it he might feel just fine.
I always give my older gelding a bute after a hard ride for his arthritis and it makes a big difference. I hope you get it sorted out.
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Member:
lloyd
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Posted on Monday, Nov 12, 2007 - 6:41 pm:
The only sure way is to have a red top tube of blood pulled. MUSCLE NUMBER (AST)The normal range (AST) is 100 600. Counts can be so high the labs sometimes cannot get a count. I would also suggest you get a electrolyte count a well as Low Potassium will also cause muscle tie up.
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Member:
campr2
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Posted on Monday, Nov 12, 2007 - 6:47 pm:
Diane, I have never given Bute to much to my horse because I hear they cause ulcers and another problem I dont need...but Im thinking I should try it for this problem. Is Bute better than Banamine/or what is the difference? The vet called and said give bute every 12 hours for 3-4 doses to see how he does with that. Hes coming out tomorrow evening though for a blood test at my request and Ill be sure and let I want to test for se..and for any kidney problem. I hope to get this sorted out soon..terrible to see him in pain and not know what needs done.
He has used the same saddle for years and Ive never had a problem. I do notice that the trainer cinches up tighter than I ever do..could that be the cause? I have a Fallis saddle and its built to fit his size..and I also use a Saddlerite pad.
Thanks again for your help.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Nov 12, 2007 - 7:41 pm:
Donna I wouldn't be scared to use bute or banamine for a few days the chances for an ulcer is very slim. heck Hank lived on 2 bute a day for 6 mos. and he doesn't seem to have ulcers. Bute or banamine would work...bute is much cheaper and what your vet suggested.
The AST and cpk that Lloyd mentions should be in a "normal" blood test I think... they can indicate whether your horse has tied up.
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 13, 2007 - 7:09 am:
Hi Mason - perhaps it's a long shot, but have you considered rain scald (dermatophilos)?
I've read several times on this site that before the visible signs of rain scald appear, the horse will be extremely sore to the touch, which seems to fit your description. Don't know whether it would cover the tucked up look too, but maybe.
Good luck.
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Member:
campr2
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 13, 2007 - 10:53 am:
Hi, The vets coming this afternoon. I will be sure and ask that an electrolyte count be taken. I add salt to his feed everyday as he would never eat loose salt or lick any type of block. And Lloyd, what do you mean by a red top tube of blood? Do I need to ask for a test to get his muscle number? And can a horse get Diabetes? As I keep thinking about things, he has been urinating more than he used to..but not drinking more. I had even went the other day and got PDZ and cedar rest to clean out the side area that he goes on as its so wet all the time. I thought maybe it was the shavings I used but now Im not sure. Now the rain scald, I keep him very clean and brush him and vacuum him..so what causes rain scald. Ill check here on this site to see if maybe he might have that. Hes still very touchy today..and still sucked up and punched out in the belly. I cant figure out whats going on. Thanks for you guys help..if you think of anything else I need to ask the vet please write. Hes coming this afternoon..Donna
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Member:
campr2
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 13, 2007 - 1:24 pm:
Dr.O is there anything else I need to ask the vet and do you see what I might be missing? I love this site and get great info to help us over our ups and downs. Hes not much better today with being touched anywhere near his flanks or back belly area and seems swollen in his belly. Could it be a spastic colon..Im just not sure.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 13, 2007 - 1:56 pm:
Hello Mason,
The problem is you define a reaction by your horse but it remains uncertain exactly why your horse is doing this. I would like more details about the ride.
When the skin is this sensitive to touch it is usually the skin that is hurting but that needs to be determined on the exam. The vet should do a thorough exam and let his exam findings determine what further testing may be indicated. Let us know what the veterinarian finds.
DrO
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Member:
campr2
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 13, 2007 - 4:58 pm:
Thank you , I will.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 14, 2007 - 6:49 am:
Donna how did the vet visit go? Have been curious what your horses problem is?
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New Member:
ljudkins
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 14, 2007 - 7:44 am:
Mason,
The difference between Bute and Banamine, according to my vet in Maryland, is that Bute works better on the skeletal problems (like hooves) and Banamine is more muscle oriented. If you are worried about ulcers you should ask your vet for Equioxx--which is given once a day and is shown to have fewer gastrointestinal side effects.
If the vet believes your horse is suffering from some form of tying-up you may want to ask the vet for Azotur paste. I have used it with and saw improvement in my horse. If the vet believes your problems are more PSSM related, you might want to look at the research Dr. Stephanie J Valberg, DVM, PhD (Univ of Minn) has done on this topic.
Keep us posted on what the vet's findings.
Laura
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Member:
campr2
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 14, 2007 - 12:40 pm:
Well the vet came last night and checked him out. All vital signs were good then he had me walk and trot him and he's sound. He pushed around on is belly and flank. My horse moved away more when he touched the left side and flattened his ears but the right he just seemed a bit uneasy. The vet thinks he possibly got sore from the ride and said that it can happen a couple of days later if he didnt move around enough the day after to work it out so he became sore by Thursday. He said its like if we climbed a mountain and hadn't been in shape, we'd be sore. Im not sure I agree with that but I suppose that could be the case and I hope that is what it is. He also said that they have a very thick muscle that is under the flank area and then theres the appendix and the kidneys on the other side and just touching him lightly wouldn't cause him to react this way if it was a major organ. He took blood to check AST, potassium levels, Se levels, electrolyte levels and alot of other stuff. He said to keep him on 2 gr of bute for another day twice a day, then 1 gram for 3-4 days and we can see what the blood tests show. He doesn't feel there's anything much wrong, that hes only sore. He was still sore this morning, enough that when I rub him he bunches up in the flank area but when he saw me bring the bute tube out he took off running in the field. So I had to get him to come back up. So he is feeling better. I will let you guys know what the tests come back at in a day or two..and thanks so much for the support. I'm also going to get with the trainer and find out if he fell or where she rode him, etc. If something happens thats okay..she just needs to tell me. Thanks again.
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 14, 2007 - 2:19 pm:
Hi Mason,
I know you are very concerned about your horse, and want him comfortable. It sounds to me like he feels pretty much how I would feel if I were out of shape and had to carry a weight for a long way, which is cranky and sore. But of course it is a good thing to rule out bigger problems.
Be sure to have in the back of your mind, however, that you want to avoid creating superstitious behavior (the May issue of The Horse had an article on this-- don't find it on this site yet). Essentially this is where you inadvertently train an animal, including a human, to link a behavior (usually an unwanted one) with a reward. A common example is pawing and feeding. So if your horse is maybe sore or cranky or doesn't want to work, and you touch him, and he moves away, and you immediately release all the pressure and expectation and leave... what is the horse going to learn from that? So be careful as you diagnose this that you aren't training him to display the symptoms that worry you. It will then become impossible to tell when he's feeling better, and ready to release his OSHA claims and go back to work....
Good luck figuring this all out.
- Elizabeth
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 14, 2007 - 5:47 pm:
Donna glad nothing serious was wrong with your horse.. It probably wouldn't hurt to make sure his saddle is still fitting him well.
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Member:
campr2
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 14, 2007 - 6:33 pm:
Elizabeth, Gosh I never thought of that and I'm very careful to use pressure and release to train. Thanks for the info..he's just smart enough too that he would hook onto that in a heartbeat and begin training me.
And I am really happy Diane that the vet had no bad news for me. I'll just be glad to see what the blood tests come up with..The vet's thinking they might all be okay and he's only sore. That'd be great. And the blood tests will show muscle trauma. Im not familiar with that but it will be good to pinpoint this. He also said if thats the case just to let him off work a couple of weeks then start again a little slower to work him into it. I should hear from him tomorrow or Friday. Talk to you soon, Donna
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 14, 2007 - 10:06 pm:
Hi Donna,
Sorry for getting your name wrong.
There are some excellent books on re-conditioning that you might use to start a conversation with your trainer. They begin very slow and the beginning feels like it takes forever, but the result is well worth it. And then your trainer maybe won't feel picked on-- sounds like she meant well, anyhow.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Nov 15, 2007 - 10:31 am:
Mason, to read up on how blood tests check for muscle disease see the article, Rhabdomyolysis: Tying Up, Shivers, PSSM, EPSM. You can select it right off the navigation bar at the top of this page.
DrO
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Member:
campr2
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Posted on Monday, Nov 19, 2007 - 12:30 pm:
Hello Dr.O and all,
I got the blood tests back and he came up low in some areas. The vet thinks maybe he has an ulcer.
He's still very touchy on the right side under the belly near the flank area and puts back his ears at a trot. He's never ever been that way before. The vet is having me give him Zantac, the people kind. I'm to give him 75mg @ 40 tablets 2 times a day. He said to do this for 2 weeks then call him before I stop and he will do another blood test. Does this sound right? I don't have a computer at my home so had to wait until this morning to post back to you and to go check all the info here on ulcers. I did start the pills Saturday AM..hes had 5 doses so far. The blood results are below. I wrote out his complete blood count test and then others that were off along with this labs reference range. Are any of these results dangerous? He had low RBC and WBC last year but after putting him on Platimun Performance supplement he went to normal, now hes low again. Any ideas on why or whats causing this? I'll go read about Ulcers and the blood tests for them to get more info. Thanks so much for you help,time and support..
Complete Blood Count Test Ref Range
WBC 5.2 (low) 5.5-12.5
RBC 5.5 (low) 6.5-10.5
HGB 10.3 (low) 11.0-19.0
HCT 27 (low) 35-52
MCV 49 34-58
MCH 18.7 12.3-19.7
MCHC 38 (high) 31.37
RBC Morphology Normal
Also it showed the following that were off:
Globulin 2.4 (low) 2.6-5.6
glucose 54 (low) 70-120
Potassium 5.2 (high) 3-5
Neutrophils 1924 (low) 2700-6700
Platelet Count 168 (normal) 100-400
Everything else was in the normal range. Whats the high Potassium indicate? Thanks again..Donna
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Member:
campr2
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Posted on Monday, Nov 19, 2007 - 12:54 pm:
Here are the complete tests results. After reading the info on this website..I think to help me you guys need this.
Results / Ref Range
AST 224 / 180-570
Total Bilirubin 1.3 / 0.1-2.5
Alkaline Phosphatase 126 / 50-300
GGT 10 / 2-30
Total Protein 5.8 / 5.6-8.0
Albumin 3.4 / 2.2-3.9
Globulin 2.4(low)/ 2.6-5.6
A/G Ratio 1.4 / 0.5-2.4
Cholesterol 75 / 70-150
BUN 17 / 10-25
Creatinine 1.8 / 1.2-2.0
BUN/Creatinine Ratio 9 / 5-21
Phosphorus 3.4 / 2.0-5.6
Calcium 11.8 / 10.0-13.7
Glucose 54(low) / 70-120
Sodium 136 / 130-146
Potassium 5.2(high) / 3-5
Na/K Ratio 26 / 24-58
Chloride 98 / 95-110
CPK 253 / 20-500
LDH 333 / 150-450
WBC 5.2(low) / 5.5-12.5
RBC 5.5(low) / 6.5-10.5
HGB 10.3(low) / 11.0-19.0
HCT 27(low) / 35-52
MCV 49 / 34-58
MCH 18.7 / 12.3-19.7
MCHC 38(high) / 31-37
RBC Morphology Normal
Neutrophils 1924(low)= 37%/ 2700-6700
Lymphocytes 2236 = 43% / 1500-550
Monocytes 156 = 3% / 0-800
Eosincphils 832= 16% / 0-925
Basophils 52 = 1% / 0-170
Platelet Estimate Adequate
Platelet Count 168 / 100-400
Fibrinogen, Semi-Quantitative 190 /100-400
Im not sure what this is pointing to..I had ask my vet over a year ago it he could have ulcers when his blood counts were low but he didnt think so. Any thoughts Id really appreciate..Thanks Donna
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Monday, Nov 19, 2007 - 4:08 pm:
Hi Donna,
Well, Dr. O will need to weigh in BUT as far as I know the definitive diagnostic for ulcers is an endoscopy, and the proven treatment is Ulcerguard or Gastroguard (same product in a different package). All omeprazoles are not equal for equine ulcer treatment. I wish blood tests were diagnostic for ulcers, but so far they absolutely are not.
Of course, an ulcer isn't out of the question for your guy. To treat them according to the general standard of care is expensive, so it is almost certainly worth taking the time to diagnose them first, or to rule them out.
Grouchiness at the trot transition and soreness as you describe doesn't immediately suggest ulcers, to my non-veterinary mind. I'd be possibly more focused on a lameness eval. and saddle fit (if he's only grouchy under saddle) or a general resistance to going back to work.
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Member:
campr2
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Posted on Monday, Nov 19, 2007 - 4:58 pm:
Hi Elizabeth,
First of all I ordered a book on reconditioning..so thanks so much for the suggestion. I should be getting it today. As far as him putting his ears back, he did that yesterday on the lead just when I asked him to trot along with me. The vet had me trot and walk him and said he was completly sound last week, so Im not sure what the pinned ears is about. I thought maybe if he has ulcers hes in pain. I thought about getting the scope test, but the vet said we could try the zantac for 2 weeks then he'd run a blood test to see where his WBC and RBC came up. Would a ulcer be bleeding and cause these counts to be low? Ive read everything I can find and Im just confused as to what this might be.
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Monday, Nov 19, 2007 - 10:37 pm:
Hi Donna,
Well, if you type "gastric ulcers" in the search box on this site, you'll find a good article on ulcers that should give you useful background for evaluating whether your vet has a basis for this diagnosis or treatment.
From what you describe, I personally would be trying to rule out mechanical pain with a lameness eval., assuming that the out-of-shape soreness has resolved.
Good luck!
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New Member:
ljudkins
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 20, 2007 - 7:48 am:
Mason,
Ulcers can cause a low RBC count, I know this first hand. Your vet is taking a conservative approach to treating your horse, which is fine. If the horse reacts postively to Zantac then the quick transition back to work may have over stressed him. One of the last things you said about this young trainer assisting you was that she took him out on the trail and up and down hills. This makes me think he may have strained/pulled something in the S-I (sacral ilium)area of his back and he was compensating for the pain by holding his stomach tucked up. (It's not like a horse can lie on it's back to relieve back tension--next best think stand in a position that takes the pressure off.) When it was discover my TB was recovering from ulcers it was recommended to feed him corn oil (1/2 cup a day) I opted for Wellpride fish oil (1 oz x2 daily) as it is rich in Omega-3 and it is a great anti-inflammatory.
You might suggest to your vet a shot of Fluicort (a fast acting corticoid steroid which last about 24 hours). If this shot brought your horse much relief, it might be telling. It could be you have a two front battle on your hands, a muscle strain and ulcers due to the stress of pain.
Checking the fit of a saddle is always a thought, but it has been my experience that the horse will react normal in hand and become agatiated when the ill fitting saddle is put on his back and girthed up. (Kicking or biting is a common reaction.)
Remember this is all food for thought.......good luck
Laura
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 20, 2007 - 8:11 am:
Hello Mason,
You are making a common mistake even vets make: trying to diagnose from lab results which is backwards. You make your potential list of problems from the history and physical exam and then you may be able to use lab work to help rule the possibility in or out. The reason is that an abnormal lab result itself can have many explanations which includes no explanation it is just a variation of normal. This is particularly true for changes within 5% of the normal range. Concerning the anemia, did your veterinarian work your horse on lunge prior to taking the blood? This can make a difference as to your RBC/HCT values, for more on this see Diseases of Horses » Cardiovascular, Blood, and Immune System » The Diagnosis of Anemia.
Keep your eye on your horse's symptoms and consider probable reasons for this behavioral issue:- It is not unusual for horses to react to being touched here (a training issue).
- The area is painful.
- A nonspecific pain elsewhere.
If I remember correctly you were concerned about possible myopathies and the lab work above does not support this idea nor any particular cause. I would neither rule ulcers in or out based on these results.
DrO
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Member:
campr2
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 20, 2007 - 12:00 pm:
Thank you DrO. No we did not lunge him..and I knew better too from you talking about it before but I forgot to. He will be taking blood again in 2 weeks and I will make certain to lunge him. And I understand about looking at it backwards..thats so true. I am sure glad to be a member to get help from you guys. My horse had been only on grass hay so I bought a bale of alphalfa and started him at 3/4# a feeding and will increase to 2# per feeding added to his grass hay. Also I started corn oil, just a little at first then will get up to 1/2 cup. The only thing is hes a very easy keeper and loves to eat. I just wish I could keep hay in front of him all the time. Laura, where do I get the Wellpride and do horses eat fish oils? I was also thinking of getting something to slow down his eating so he can eat all day or for more hours before the evening feeding. Has anyone had any experience with The Grazer, a hay feeding machine? They are made by the same folks that make the stall skins. Ill keep you guys posted of his next blood tests. Hes not as sore today either. Thanks for all your help..I really do appreciate it and appreciate this site..Donna
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 20, 2007 - 1:49 pm:
Hi Donna,
I hate to be a PIA, but with your concerns about weight and the cost of all these various things, it seems to me that it would be well worth the diagnostic expense of an endoscopy to determine whether your horse actually needs ulcer treatment/management. At CSU, an endoscopy costs slightly more than you are considering paying for the Grazer. If he does scope positive for ulcers, it's worth considering whether zantac is the proper course of treatment.
Trotting sound in hand is good news, but it doesn't rule out lameness or injury (unless you had a full lameness exam). It would be such a shame to spend all this money and find that it didn't help your horse return to work.
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New Member:
ljudkins
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 20, 2007 - 2:06 pm:
Mason,
I get Wellpride directly from the source Wellpride.com. When my guy Shacq (4 yr old/off track TB) had a slight colic my heart stopped I my last horse had coliced twice within 3 weeks (the episodes were unrelated per the vets at Marion du Pont Equine Center). I had Shacq scoped and was told to put him on corn oil. I had just finished doing extensive research on Omega-3(fish oil) v Omega-6 corn oil). I contacted Wellpride directly and ended up speaking with Bo Martinsen, MD--one of the lead researchers. He is the person who told me to up the Wellpride for Shacq from 1 oz a day to 2 oz. Go to there website and check out the tab labeled Omega-3 articles. These guys are accessible and will answer your questions quickly.
Good luck Mason, hope this helps.
Laura
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Member:
campr2
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 20, 2007 - 3:03 pm:
Hi Elizabeth, I know your probably right. I will get the scope if he doesn't improve. I was only looking at the Grazer because he eats his hay and then is all day without any, which I know isnt good for him. Also he is alone at the barn but there are other horses on all sides. Only thing is the fence is so he cant touch them. I know this is probably stressful for him also, so do I get another horse? Hard to afford that but maybe Ill need to.
Laura, thanks for the website. Ill check that out today. On giving the Zantac? Do you guys know if I should be giving that on an empty stomach or after he has a bit of hay? I give a dose in the AM and PM after I get home..about 12 hours apart. If I feed him his grain with oil after will that keep the Zantac from working? So much to think about..Talk to you soon and thanks, Donna
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New Member:
ljudkins
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 21, 2007 - 6:03 am:
Mason,
Just looked at the Zantac website it didn't recommend taking the medication with food or on an empty stomach. I believe we crushed the pills and mixed them in their feed. At the barn, where the horses are boarded, I know they will fill a feed bag for horses that aren't feeling well and let the horses work on that. One bag in the a.m. and one in the p.m. Last thing you want your guy to do is go hungry if ulcers are the problem. I know QH are easy keepers, but think of this as a short term solution. Once he feeling better and back to light work, the pounds should come off.
Laura
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 21, 2007 - 7:35 am:
Donna I just want to add be very careful about adding too much food to your horses diet.
If he is overweight alfalfa and oils will put the pounds on him fast....from experience. I'd be more inclined to try the ulcerguard and stemmy hay for chew time.
When I fretted to my vet about Hank getting an ulcer from bute and not much food, he said he would rather treat an ulcer than founder. I don't know how overweight your horse is but if he is pretty fat I would be hesitant to add oil or alfalfa....course I could be way off base on that.
I know that is a double edged sword if he has ulcers. Maybe DrO. will have some advice on that.
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 21, 2007 - 9:14 am:
Oh, arg, ulcers are the new black for horses.
All this is IF he has ulcers. Which have not been diagnosed or ruled out. To quote from Dr. O's article on this site:
"Colic, poor appetite, and poor bodily condition are usually seen. Other signs associated with ulcers have been, attitude changes, a tucked up appearance, stiffness, and poor performance."
So if you have a nice round easy keeper, that might at least challenge the assumption that the precipitating cause of this thread is ulcers.
If he has an undiagnosed lameness, standing around eating yummy stuff may resolve it, at least temporarily, but it also may make things worse when he goes back to work.
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Member:
campr2
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 21, 2007 - 10:34 am:
Hello all, Hes doing better today, not nearly as sore on the flank area. I have added 3/4# alfalfa am and pm and about 1# of O/W/B stemmy hay along with 1/4 cup corn oil. I can cut out the corn oil but read that oil and alfalfa helps coat the stomach. I have cut back the 3/4# on his grass hay though. I weigh it everyday too just to keep a good check on things. He did have some hay left this morning..wow! He did eat most of the stemmy stuff but there was a few pieces left. He met me in the barn with the usual "hello, Im hungry" nicker. Hes a short bodies Doc Bar horse and has a round barrel but he has no crease down his back or a thick neck. He could stand to lose 50# or so I think though. He tapes out at 1192, is 15.1 hands. I sure cant feel any ribs though.
The vet said it would be okay to ride him so I have been just riding in a bareback pad on the trail around the block and hes doing great. Maybe the whole thing was from overwork and acted up some ulcers he had. Still not sure. I am going to get a blood fecal test to see if theres anything we might see from that. Hes not lame at all..thank goodness.
I had no idea horses were so easy to get ulcers until I began reading all the old posts here on this site. Seems even taking them out in the trailer to a playday show or working cows or anything can cause stress and ulcers. How are we to use our horses then? Go camping, go ranch sorting, even go trail riding if it causes ulcers? I know he doesnt like going for a trailer ride that much as when he sees me hooking it up he heads for the back fence. He loads fine but is taking him out causing him to be sick? Boy how times have changed since I was a kid and we really worked and used the horses..
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 21, 2007 - 10:44 am:
Mason, you need to reread the sections on dosing ranitidine as the dosages you are recommending are too infrequent. I too do not think fasting warranted.
DrO
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Member:
campr2
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 21, 2007 - 5:01 pm:
Thank you Dr.O. I will begin every 8 hours on dosages.
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