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  Discussion on Vet check revealed possible EPM
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Member:
astrea

Posted on Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 - 8:59 am:

I have a mare out on approval and she passed all of the trainer evaluations, etc... with flying colors. The vet suspects that she may have EPM, though. She cross-cantered on the longe line, self-corrected one way, but not the other. She showed weakness on both sides when her tail was pulled, flexion test was slightly positive on one side in the rear, and she failed to correct the cross legged test on one side. Her back is sore in a couple of areas and she is stiff in the ribs on one side. Her topline is noticably weak, which everyone thought was due to lack of work, despite her being in work 4-5 days a week. This horse is perfect for me in personality, training, talent, but I have two other horses with debilitating medical problems. This was to be my easy, fun horse. The owner is concerned about doing a spinal tap and is considering having me put the mare on Marquis to see if there would be improvement. I am concerned about the complications from treatment and am very concerned that something awful might happen to the mare while she is under my care. I really like the mare, but really don't understand what the final prognosis will be. Does EPM mean that she will not be able to hold up? She is trained as a Novice/Training level eventer. Will she get better with treatment? Would she be safe?
Member:
ekaufman

Posted on Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 - 9:46 am:

Oh Astrea,

My advice would be to send her home and let her owner take responsibility for her medical care. If she recovers, and if you don't find something you like as well in the meantime, take another look. Whatever the cause of her problems, there are too many of them for what ought to be a honeymoon period.

Good luck.
Member:
vickiann

Posted on Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 - 11:18 am:

Good advice from Elizabeth. When you know that there are these issues, it would be best to look for another prospect. There are a lot of nice horses out there with fewer question marks.
Member:
teddyj1

Posted on Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 - 5:20 pm:

Hi Astrea,

I own a horse now, a 6 yr old, that when he was 3.5 was diagnosed, and treated for EPM. We did perform a Spinal Tap to confirm the Western Blot.

He was treated for several weeks with Marquis before we saw any improvement, and had no side effects.
Unfortunately, the horse has had intermittent " not right behind" issues since being treated for EPM.
I had a new Vet look at him a couple of weeks ago, and she felt we might be dealing with a problem of hind suspensory ligaments.
We will Ultra Sound On Monday, the horse also came back with an extremely high Lyme Titer.

So, I guess my point is, this horse, I have owned since a baby, and I love him to death, and it's been nothing but heartbreak owning this one.
I will never know if he really had EPM, and how successful the treatment really was until a necropsy can be performed to examine the spinal cord.
EPM is such an enigma, and not ever really knowing if the horse really had EPM, and not knowing what permanent damage was done to the horse. Any "bad step" the horse takes, you'll have EPM in the back of your mind.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 - 5:10 pm:

There is not much to add to the advice above Astrea and I certainly agree with the sentiment that if there is something wrong you should politely return the horse to the owner and reconsider once those problems are fixed. If on the other hand you think that there may not be anything wrong with this horse other than lack of training consider a second opinion.
DrO
Member:
kstud

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 20, 2007 - 11:45 am:

Hi Astrea,
We have a horse here in our yard that had the same symptoms, however as we are in Ireland it is not EPM. The horse is a livery and the problem turned out to be an ill fitting saddle causing the horse not to work through the back and consequent back pain and resistance. The most noticeable sign was non correcting cross cantering on the lunge, however since treatment and structured exercise including the chambon on the lunge, the horse now looks like a different animal and has a lovely top line and is now balanced at canter on the lunge and all related stiffness has gone too. However correcting problems is not really any ones idea of a "fun" horse whatever the cause. Best of luck in your search for a horse,
Catherine
Member:
astrea

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 5, 2007 - 9:54 am:

Based on the advice from my vet and responses on this board, I reluctantly sent the mare back to her owner who is keeping me up to date. After two weeks of rest, the mare showed no sign of back soreness for her regular vet and would not cross her legs, but she still showed weakness at the tail pull in both directions. What else, besides EPM could cause that weakness? She is going to go back in work and then the vet will re-examine her. They pulled blood for an EPM test. There is no sign of infection or anything simple like that.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Wednesday, Dec 5, 2007 - 10:06 am:

Astrea my horses all have different reactions to the tail pull. The one horse who has been taught to give to slightest pressure will follow his tail rather than pull back. My mare has more give than I would presume average and is fine. My other gelding will pull back with a vengence. Is the tail pull the only abnormal thing now? If so maybe she was just body sore for some reason and the rest helped her.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Dec 6, 2007 - 6:45 am:

Hello Astrea,
interpretation of the tail pull test is explained at Diseases of Horses » Nervous System » Incoordination, Weakness, Spasticity, Tremors » Diagnosing Incoordination, Ataxia and Weakness see the postural section. There are some horses that normally will give to the tail pull test so its interpretation must be done in light of history and the rest of the exam.
DrO
Member:
astrea

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 - 1:55 pm:

I saw the mare again this past weekend and she looks great. The owner had two separate vets look at her. The blood test was just barely over the titer for EPM, which indicates that she has been exposed to EPM, but both vets question whether or not she has it. She is over her major back soreness, but the owner is questioning her saddle fit. The mare is still unhappy about being saddled, but is not incredibly sore as before. The owner has opted to NOT give any treatment for EPM, but is very interested in selling her. As another posted suggested, could the mare's cross-cantering, etc... be due to general discomfort from a poorly fitting saddle and not an indication of active EPM? She has just started back into work. One of the vets suggested that this may just be the way she is. The owner has indicated that there have been no changes in her during the seven years she has owned her. When I saw her this weekend, she was doing 15 meter canter circles with no problem, both directions. Does this sound like a horse with EPM or possibly something else that looked like EPM?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 15, 2008 - 6:51 pm:

The information you provide really does not differentiate a issue of mild unlocalized pain, a neurological deficit, or just not enough training yet. On a good neurological exam are there any deficits? On a good lameness exam are there any signs of lameness? This is the way to answer your questions. If the answer is no on both counts you have some assurance but not absolute proof there are no underlying disease issues. And if the decision that disease is probably not at the bottom of these issues, you still need to decide if this is an issue you think you can address with the training resources available.
DrO
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