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  Discussion on Hives and pregnancy - HELP !!
Author Message
Member:
gsmangus

Posted on Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 - 7:22 pm:

Hi Dr. O - here we go again - after stabilizing our stallion and his hives finally - now our best show mare - a 3 YO - has started hives too. This began when she finished showing in mid September 2007. We started her on oral Dex - 5 cc (2 mg/cc) initially and also hyDrOxyzine. She did well and after 3 days with NO symptoms we stopped the meds and POOF - back came the hives. The home vet wanted to try Tri-Hist as an alternative (less costly than the hyDrOxyzine) and we talked about Omega 3 Fatty Acid supplementation. BUT her bumps are worse and she will not eat the Omega 3 fish oil tabs (opened). Tonight we are going back on the hyDrOxyzine and increasing her Dex until we have her stable. Our question is this - we had intended to breed her this coming spring.... what does one do if a pregnant mare develops hives ? Our equine specialist vet says the Dex and hyDrOxyzine are OK during pregnancy, but the home vet says they are not. NB: mid September when we finished showing the filly we stared MORE turnout during the day, less feed, no more lunging, and no more daily washing, no sheet on her during turn out. We are thinking the fly bites from increased outside time tipped her over the edge perhaps ?? We are really concerned that we might breed her, then she starts bumping up again and THEN what the heck to do we do ??? Pregnancy is not a problem with the stud but sure will be a mare !!

Susan K. Mangus
Member:
dres

Posted on Saturday, Nov 17, 2007 - 7:40 pm:

Susan, i have a mare that gets awful hives.. interestingly enough tho.. while in foal and foal at her side she did not ''bump'' out at all.. This summer with out foal at her side , she ''bumped'' up GREATLY..

On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 - 4:51 pm:

Hello Susan,
the reason for the confusion is that Dex, while causing parturition or abortion in many other species and especially cows, does not readily cause abortion/birth in horses even when high doses are used repeatedly in an attempt to intentionally induce parturition. Because of the common effect in other species the abortion warning is found in every equine pharmacological text, including our own articles on steroid use in horses. I do believe it's use in late term pregnancies has to be carefully considered in light of the very small chance it may have this effect.
DrO
Member:
gsmangus

Posted on Sunday, Nov 18, 2007 - 5:59 pm:

Dear Dr. O - whew, OK, now we know that ! BUT what options does an owner have if a pregnant mare develops hives DURING a pregnancy? Do you just rely on the Dex or can hyDrOxyzine also be used? What about prednisolone? We always try to avoid ANYTHING during the first trimester - wormings, or shots, or anything until those first 3 months have passed. ALSO - have you seen in your practice that mares tend NOT to get hives during pregnancy (hormone changes ??) ?

Susan K. Mangus
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Nov 19, 2007 - 7:46 am:

I don't ever remember being presented with the dillema of treating a pregnant mare with serious hives. There are some non-drug recommendations in the article. But concerning medications there are no clear answers that I can give to your questions Susan. You must determine whether you wish to take a risk (small in my opinion) to treat a problem that you are conjecturing. It's severity will certainly figure into your calculation.

In general, if it is decided that treatment warranted, you will try to control the problem with the least amount of the least dangerous drug. Because of its much shorter action I would consider prednisolone a better choice than dexamethasone. The safety of antihistamines has not been studied in pregnant mares and gets a Category B from the FDA:
  • Either animal reproduction studies have not demonstrated a fetal risk but there are no controlled studies in pregnant women, or animal reproduction studies have shown an adverse effect (other than a decrease in fertility) that was not confirmed in controlled studies in women in the first trimester (and there is no evidence of risk in later trimesters).
DrO
Member:
gsmangus

Posted on Monday, Nov 19, 2007 - 8:39 am:

Dear Dr O - Thank you so very much for the information. At least we know what we are up against and have some ideas for possible care. Hopefully we can get our filly stabilized and she will be OK with a pregnancy in 2008. We will for sure give her special attention, more than our already "intensive" hands on care. It just hurts us personally to see one of our horses in discomfort. It would be so nice if our horses could talk to us and tell us what hurts etc. etc. !!

Susan K.Mangus
New Member:
ljudkins

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 20, 2007 - 12:11 pm:

Susan,

I feed my boys (one TB, one QH/paint) Wellpride fish oil with no problems. You might give that a try.

Laura
New Member:
lola

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 20, 2007 - 1:05 pm:

Susan,
I have had some experience with lots of horses over the years. That the hives that my horses got were caused from something they ate. I always do a process of elimination buy taking them off of all sweat feeds and supplements and see if the hives stay gone after treating them with the Dex. and doing this. It is a process, but it worked. From the filly we had it ended up being the Strongid C 2x. And she had been on this for a while before having a problem. Another horse had a reaction to a different brand of sweet feed that I had gotten. I can also tell you that right on the packet of Dex. it is labeled to not use in pregnant mares because they can abort. And remember it is always best to take care of the mare first. I hope this helps!

Lola
Member:
gsmangus

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 20, 2007 - 3:11 pm:

Thanks for the information! My home vet gave me copies of articles from vet journals where researchers have noticed a "synergetic" effect of feeding omega 3 fatty acids along with the hyDrOxyzine. I am giving our filly 4 grams (four 1000 mg each - hope my math is right) AM and PM Fish Oil tabs, cutting open the gel tabs that I buy at Wal-Mart, and squeezing the oil onto her feed. She is eating it down (there really is not much inside those tabs) with no difficulty. Home vet also encouraged trying Tri-Hist as it is less costly, we did, bumps came back worse, we quit, and are back to using the hyDrOxyzine. We are still currently giving daily Dex, too, which we hope to decrease this weekend and see how it goes. re: a food allergy - with our colt last year we took him OFF the sweet feed and onto plain old oats for 3 weeks - no effect. Currently our filly gets the same feed she has eaten for the past 2 years and no supplements, and less feed now that we are done showing. AND if I might toot my filly's horn - we just found out she is the first cremello in the history of AQHA to get Halter ROMs ! She sure is special to us and it is especially distressing to see her go thru this.

Susan K. Mangus
Member:
sryder11

Posted on Tuesday, Nov 20, 2007 - 10:14 pm:

Hi Susan sorry you are having problems with your filly. My horse which I posted about in Hives & Dex Dosage & wrote to you about is now doing great although I am still giving him a very small (3 tabs) dose of Dex twice weekly, and hoping to bring him off this very soon.

My vet finally came over and gave him a shot of Vetalog which really seemed to knock it back in a way the Dex had not accomplished.

Re: the fatty acids, I have been giving him a supplement from the Platinum Performance line called Platinum Skin and Allergy - it contains a fatty acid plus a small amount of thymic protein. Platinum is made by Dr Doug Herthel from Alamo Pintado clinic here in California. You can check it out on the Platinum web site: www.platinumperformance.com

I really am amazed at the improvement in my horse, not only are his hives gone, his weight, condition and coat have all improved while being on a tiny scoop of this stuff! Best of luck Susanne
New Member:
6harding

Posted on Wednesday, Apr 30, 2008 - 11:34 pm:

Can you give us an update on your filly's hives? I'm dealing with this for the second year and am hoping that the every other or every third day dex is going to be fine. That is what is working.

Thanks, Kristen
Member:
gsmangus

Posted on Thursday, May 1, 2008 - 3:52 pm:

Our filly AND stallion are at this time - May 1,2008 - hive free. Now we just cross our fingers and see how long it lasts. They have both been hive free since 12/4/07 when they were out all day in the cool rain.
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