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Discussion on Pus in frogs, no lameness, abscess?
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Member:
Redmare
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 5, 2005 - 9:39 am:
Hi Dr O & All-
Yesterday I trimmed my gelding's hooves and was alarmed to see pus pouring out of all four frogs! I normally don't trim the frogs, but due to the wet conditions there was a lot of yucky, peeling-off material which I wanted to remove. It was definitely pus, but the smell was mild compared with what you would expect in an abscess, and my horse didn't even flinch when I squeezed it out. After the trim I had a riding lesson on him and he was fine. Are these abscesses? Can they be caused my standing in wet muck? He lives in a large pasture so *could* choose dryer spots to stand on, but most of the day the herd hangs out at the very mucky gate or feeding areas.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 5, 2005 - 6:21 pm:
No and this is not puss: you would have heat and pain if sensitive tissues were infected to the point of forming purulent exudate. This is wet and dirt and whatever the bacteria can create in such an environment and yes wet would make it worse.
DrO
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Member:
Htrails
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 6, 2005 - 8:41 am:
Frogs have "sweat" glands along the rear collateral grooves - they produce a liquid - it is not usual to trim enough frog to expose this - it would look like an artery channel
R
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Member:
Redmare
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 6, 2005 - 9:32 am:
Interesting Terisa. I've never heard of this. In any case, my horse is fine. I groomed him and hosed off his hooves and they look normal. He's as active as ever. I'm posting a picture I took yesterday of the left fore.  
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Member:
Redmare
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Posted on Thursday, Jan 6, 2005 - 9:34 am:
Oops, hit the enter button too soon  . Photo on the left is Knute's left front, photo on the right is his left hind.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Jan 7, 2005 - 9:29 am:
Hello redmare, I think I make a greyish material in the grooves on each side of the frog. I too am unaware of sweat glands in the heel of the frog.
DrO
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Member:
Htrails
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Posted on Friday, Jan 7, 2005 - 12:53 pm:
"Apocrine glands, shperical masses of tubules in the corium of the frog, extend ducts that deliver secretions to the surface of the frog." Adams Page 8
The ones I have seen are the ducts with secretions along the collateral sulcus - while trimming and disection cadavers.
TE
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 8, 2005 - 8:55 am:
I think you may have misunderstood what you have seen and read Therisa: these glands do not pass through the horny part of the frog to deliver secretions to the surface of the frog/sole. These glands deliver secretions to the surface of the dermis of the frog, the junction of the sensitive dermis and horny portion of the frog (the "frog stay" I think Adam's calls it) under the horny part of the frog. I thing this might be one reason for the consistancy and water content of the frog. If there is work to suggest otherwise I would be interested as this is a new concept to me.
I have been trimming feet and frogs for decades, healthy ones / sick ones and have not seen anything that resembles glands running through the horn of the sole grossly nor have I ever read about such glands.
DrO
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Member:
Htrails
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Posted on Sunday, Jan 9, 2005 - 8:06 am:
I have seen this - trimming the insensitive frog back to the sensitive frog and found a small duct/channel, not extending to the surface, if you press it, it exudes liquid ( not the sole, not the frog stay which is the rear mid point but the sides of the frog in the collateral groove area ) I am not aware of any study of this / these glands, it is simply noted that they exist and the original poster may have exposed this while trimming, which would not be usual.
T
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Jan 9, 2005 - 10:27 am:
In my most current edition of Adam's the only glands I can find mentioned are stated to be in the area of the stay (pg7 edition 4). My second edition of Adams does not describe glands at all. This past year a new edition (5) of Adams is out: is this where you are finding this information?
I have several books (Denoix, Ashdown) that provide photos and MRI investigations of transverse sections through different sequential locations of the foot, starting at the toe and working back. Though the photos are good enough to visualize the very small venules in the solar corium (plexus palmaris) I can find no evidence of glands in the horny sections or even deeper at the junction of the horn and sensitive corium in the region you decribe. On cadavers you may have mistook venules in the sensitive corium for glandular ducts? Even in the sensitive corium I don't see anything that might be such a duct and usually apocrine and merocrine glands and their ducts are not visible to the naked eye, though exceptions do exist.
Is it possible you are seeing local areas of seperation between newer and older horn? Moisture has seeped into the crevass and that is what you are expressing when you press on it. I have seen such occurences in both the sulcus and along the bars and as you state above I think this is what redmare is seeing. Her horse may be getting ready to shed its frogs and the seperation allowing moisture to seep between the two layers.
I know this seems like it is turning into a competition but that is not my intention at all, it is to teach and while teaching: learn. One of the greatest assests of this site to me is what I learn, so please don't be put off by my continuing discussion.
DrO
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Member:
Redmare
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Posted on Monday, Jan 10, 2005 - 11:56 pm:
Thanks for all the comments. I'm relieved to know that this wasn't an abscess. My boy is doing great and we had a ride today.
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Member:
Htrails
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 - 7:45 am:
Adam's 5th edition - page 8 - it does not go in to detail - as these sweat glands are not described in great detail anywhere that I know of, ( Strasser mentions them as well ) the purpose of them must not be considered significant - I think that if they are there they must have purpose, perhaps moisture, perhaps the content of the moisture has has some value. What I exposed was not in any separated material, I had not seen this before and will now be looking! It will be the end of March till my next "dissection party". I will be looking!
TE
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 11, 2005 - 9:22 am:
Despite review of volumes of material and anatomy books that focus solely on the foot I find no evidence of glands as you describe. I still think you are misreading Adams Therisa and that he (actually now Tracy Turner) refers to glands that deliver secretions to the top of the dermis at the junction of the sensitive corium and horn, not to the outer surface of the frog or sole.
How about this: at your next dissection party take photos of these glands and post them?
DrO
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