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Discussion on Pectin-lethicin mixture for managing ulcers
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Member:
aaring
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 27, 2007 - 7:25 pm:
Does anyone know where to find such a product? I've had no luck at all locating it. Thanks in advance for any leads.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Nov 27, 2007 - 11:30 pm:
Hi awa all I could find was a product called pronutrin scroll to the bottom of the page to read about it. It is the product they used in the research it sounds like. I don''t know if you would have to get it thru a vet or not.
https://www.boehringer-ingelheim.com/corporate/products/animal_health_horse_10.ht m
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Member:
teddyj1
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Posted on Wednesday, Nov 28, 2007 - 1:11 pm:
AWA
I'm pretty sure that CotaFlx's U-Gard contains pectin/lecithin, along with Liquorice, and several other natural ingredients designed to alleviate ulcer symptoms.
The product is also highly recommended by HORSE JOURNAL
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Member:
aaring
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Posted on Thursday, Nov 29, 2007 - 11:00 am:
Diane, I spoke with the company you noted above, and they said it is not imported to the US through any normal distribution channels, so I'm still hunting.
TOD, I am familiar with U-Gard, but don't want all the other things that are in it, and have no idea how much pectin-lethicin is actually in their product. I want to be able to control my own dosage in accordance with the research protocol. Thanks for the thought, though.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Nov 30, 2007 - 8:55 am:
Hello awa,
Last time I looked into this issue I believe we had to go to a human natural food store but I have still not been able to deduce the relative amount of pectin and lecithin in the commercial product so shoot for close to a 50/50 amount.
DrO
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New Member:
apfaith
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 19, 2008 - 11:46 am:
I read a lot on here but rarely post....so hi everyone! 
Following up on this been checking back for over a year or so on this issue- has anyone tried making up a pectin-lecithin mixture for their horses? results you care to share?
I'm tempted to try it- however, am a little concerned about the pectin part. Pectin reminds me of the stuff we use in jams and jellies to make them, well, jams and jellies Is that actually good in the equine gut? Seems a bit dangerous to me; I'm thinking of impactions due to pectin.
Maybe I am worrying about nothing- the amount of pectin in the doseage for this mixture may not be enough to cause impaction problems. Or would it?
The horse I'd be using this on is 600 kg. So I'd be looking at 300g doseage. Split between the 2 ingredients, that is 150g of each.
do we know how much of pectin would greatly increase the risk of impaction? Would 150 g raise any concerns?
Maybe this isn't an issue at all- I'd like to hear Dr. O's opinion.
Thank you!
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Saturday, Jan 19, 2008 - 7:53 pm:
Hi Allyson,
Via wikipedia: "Pectin, a white to light brown powder, is a heteropolysaccharide derived from the cell wall of higher terrestrial plants. It was first isolated and described in 1825 by Henri Braconnot[1].
It is mainly used in food as a gelling agent in jams and jellies. Today it is also used in fillings, sweets, as a stabilizer in fruit juices and milk drinks and as a source of dietary fiber in foods."
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Jan 20, 2008 - 12:05 pm:
Hi Allyson,
Not an issue as it does not form a indigestible mass in the intestines.
DrO
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Member:
kasi
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 22, 2008 - 9:22 am:
Slippery Elm Bark powder is also a WONDERFUL aid for ulcers. I used it with Chamomile flower powder. Worked wonders. Both can be purchased at any bulk herb company. I get mine at herbalcom.com. I keep it on hand all the time and add it to my horse's feed anytime that I am expected a stressful situation just as a safe guard against ulcers. Mixed with water it makes a slimy goo which is also helpful to make pastes of various sorts to syringe into a horse that is off feed.
Karen
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 23, 2008 - 9:22 am:
Hello Karen,
I cannot find any support for this notion either in the scientific literature or my texts on herbal therapy. I do see where this is primarily a mucilage treatment but without work to show a benefit, known appropriate dosages, and what the cost would be to appropriately dose a horse, I am uncertain whether this is a good recommendation for a horse.
DrO
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Member:
kasi
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 23, 2008 - 1:46 pm:
Hi Dr. O,
The remedy is not something that I made up and was recommended to me by an herbalist named Robert McDowell. He has an excellent website. The recommendation was:
For the treatment of ulcers we use 1/3 cup of straight slippery elm bark powder mixed into a paste with chamomile tea and added to the feed once a day. The chamomile tea is made up as 4-5 teabags or 2-3 dessert spoons of the dried flowers to 1 liter of boiling water. Allow to cool and use enough to mix the slippery elm bark powder into as much of a paste as you require. Use the remainder to dampen the feed. Chamomile tea is very good for the parasympathetic nervous system and helps immensely with GIT problems. The slippery elm lines the entire GIT system and gives the body a chance to completely repair and replace the entire GIT lining. This program can be continued as maintenance with a horse and you would still do it every day at 1/3 cup of slippery elm mixed into a paste with as much chamomile tea as required.
Since I was feeding moistened beet pulp (I took all my horses off grain after research that suggested in might be part of the problem) I did not make the tea but added both powders to the beet pulp and mixed. I suspect the paste he suggests is for dry type feeds so that it sticks. I have also made the paste to syringe into horses that are off feed. It makes an excellent paste to even use as a carrier for other substances. There is no doubt in my mind that this remedy helped the horses that I treated. Not to be disrespectful but in all areas of horse care, training, trimming, etc. I tend to listen to what the horses tell me works and doesn't work. Scientific proof does not matter to me. It wasn't so long ago that it was unheard of to lower a foundered horses heels but it is unmistakable that horses tend to be more comfortable when that is done and many times the coffin bone reconnects and these horses are not euthanized as was recommended. Here again I really do not mean to sound disrespectful but it does bother me when just because you do not find support in your collection of texts you would be so quick to discount it. Folks here could benefit from this knowledge. I have had quite a bit of successful responses to herbal treatments and find that a natural approach is far better than some of the unwanted side effects of drugs. Understandably too though modern drugs do have their place also. In my mind herbs are nature's drugs and a great majority of aliments man or beast are from a weakened immune system due to our environment and diet.
Respectfully,
Karen
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New Member:
apfaith
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 23, 2008 - 3:50 pm:
Thanks, Dr. O! Good to know. I did some internet shopping at the online herbal shop(s) I frequent...and this stuff is NOT cheap!
Cheaper than gastroguard or ulcerguard by far- but it is worth knowing that it will still make a noticeable tap into the pocketbook for my horse's doseage.
example: (apple pectin powder $16.95/lb, lecithin granules $6.65/lb)
Something to consider.
-Ally
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 23, 2008 - 5:38 pm:
Thank you for your post Karen. We welcome the posting of any subject about horses on Horseadvice and all postings are carefully scrutinized and critiqued through the lens of science and my experience. That's one of my jobs here.
The problem with this recommendation is that there is no scientific evidence for this use. When you first posted I researched all of the scientific, medical, and veterinary publications of the last 40 years and this includes many alternative medicine journals. I also checked my own herbal reference and The Mayo Clinic site which has a lot of information on home and herbal remedies. I would be interested in any quality research into this use.
I do see the recommendation for use with non-specific stomach and gastroenteritis conditions at many herbal sites that sell the product. To present a balanced view I did not find any scientific references saying it does not work.
Herbs are a very complicated mixture of chemicals many of which have pharmacological properties. This makes herbs a drug. Like all drugs, before they should be recommended for treating diseases they should be tested for efficacy, dosage, and safety. Anything less and we are back in the age where bleeding was a common practice for many ailments for hundreds of years because of many "successful responses". We now know these successes in all but a few very rare conditions were in spite of the treatment and not because of it. For more on our perspective see Member's Services members_only » The Lounge: Kick back and relax » Alternative Medicine and Epistemology.
DrO
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