This is an archived Horseadvice.com Discussion. The parent article and menus are available on the navigation menu below:
HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Reproductive Diseases » Trouble Settling Mares & Stallion Infertility » Discussions on Trouble Settling Mares & Stallion Infertility not covered above »
  Discussion on Mare won't shed
Author Message
Member:
Cmdawson

Posted on Saturday, Feb 26, 2005 - 12:46 am:

Hello, I bred this mare twice last year with frozen. She is 16 yoa, biopsied 2A, cultured clean. Had some trouble clearing uterus, and was given oxytocin. Produced large follicles. Funky cycling though. She brought up two small follicles at one point and then regressed them. So, she is open. I mentioned to the vet that she did not shed her coat until very late, late summer last year. This year my other horses are starting to shed, but not her. She is overweight and arthritis in the front feet, stocks up behind. She also herded my gelding for a week last fall like a stallion. No mounting behavior though that I have seen. I had her thyroid and insulin levels tested and both came back normal. I have been told to try her on thyro L and chromium, but her levels are normal. She has some cysts also. where do I go next? She is a magnificent mare and I would like a baby out of her. Help please!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Feb 26, 2005 - 8:39 am:

Hello Chris,
Do you want to breed a mare that is chronically lame up front, this may make life quite rough for her the last 3 months. Her current condition greatly increases the chronic pain in her front feet and may be related to abnormal cycling and poor conception because of the increase in endogenous cortisol (stress hormone).

If you are having trouble we suggest you switch to frozen semen and use cooled or live cover if at all possible, some folks spend tens of thousands of dollars on frozen only to go a second year empty. Concerning the cysts you will find our recommendations at Equine Diseases » Reproductive Diseases » Trouble Settling Mares & Stallion Infertility » Uterine Infection and Inflammation.

With the hair coat being the only non-repro clinical abnormality and their being no lab abnormalities I would just keep her clipped to stay comfortable.
DrO
Member:
Paardex

Posted on Saturday, Feb 26, 2005 - 12:54 pm:

Hello Chris,
Dr O is so right, it really is very uncomfortable for a mare who is already having difficulties not being heavy from a foal,to be pregnant. Furthermore fresh semen gives better results then frozen so I wouldn't use frozen with any mare with fertility problems. Whether you do decide to breed this mare or not I still would do two things,lengthen daylight while she is stabled, we always did this with mares we wanted to breed and with mares with irregular cycli just put the lights out in the stable at 11 o clock or something like that.Most of the time this was beneficial for horses who didn't shed that well either. Secondly get her thin, mares who are on the thin side mostly are easier to breed than fat horses.
Jos
Member:
Cmdawson

Posted on Sunday, Feb 27, 2005 - 3:30 am:

She has arthritis in her front feet, but is not chronically lame. She is rideable and comfortable with shoes on. She runs, bucks and plays like all the other mares. I mention the arthritis because a repro specialist said that along with the obesity, the hair coat that will not shed, and the stocking up, she sounds like a candidate for equine metabolic synDrOme. I had her thyroid and insulin levels tested though. Any other suggestions? are these tests accurate? are there any other tests that need to be done? Will hormones cause these type symptoms?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Feb 27, 2005 - 3:10 pm:

The hair coat does not fit Metabolic SynDrOme Chris, usually these horses have very good hair coats. This is more a symptom of Cushingnoid Disease and the test does not rule it out. What and how much are you feeding?
DrO
Member:
Cmdawson

Posted on Monday, Feb 28, 2005 - 10:06 am:

Hello Dr O, she is getting grass and alfalfa hay, lots of it, and 1lb mare maintenance in the a.m and 1lb in the p.m. It is low in starch and sugar, high in protein. What are the tests that need to be done for Cushingnoid? How accurate are they? Can she conceive on pergoglide? What is the dosage? If she is cushingnoid, why is she so obese and such an easy keeper. She doesn't even get a long hair coat. She's not wooly at all. Short winter coat, not thick, just won't shed it out.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 1, 2005 - 7:13 am:

Lots of alfalfa and concentrate would make many horses obese, Chris. Though most Cushingnoid horses become difficult keepers in the long run early on this is not a problem with some. You will find the information on Cushignoid disease, testing, and pergolide in the article.

But why would you want to put a horse on pergolide who's only abnormality is she does not shed in the spring? Again I say, from the information provided so far, I would clip her in the spring and quit using frozen semen, unless the choice of stallion is more important than another open year. I would now add an adjustment in management to decrease caloric intake and increase exercise levels.
DrO
Member:
Paardex

Posted on Tuesday, Mar 1, 2005 - 8:36 am:

Dr O,
Being rather new on this site I would first like to tell you how much I appreciate the wealth of information made available to me and how I admire your clear answers to the questions.
As I posted earlier we use in Holland extended daylight as a help for mares to start their cycle a bit early.This was recommended by vets about 15 years ago and after it became "common practice"we found most horses didn't only cycle earlier but started shedding earlier to. As my vet pointed out to me at the time it also is a rather harmless way to see if there are more problems with the horse in question. If most horses react favourably and yours isn't perhaps there is something wrong. At this time we would start additional fertility tests. As far as I know research has been done extensively but on cows.Don't you use this method and if so why not?

Jos



Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 2, 2005 - 7:42 am:

Hello Jos,
Thanks for the kudos. Yes, light manipulation is frequently practiced here, both to breed mares earlier and to keep show horses short coated.

I am uncertain as to how your vet is suggesting to use light and its effect as a diagnostic tool. How would the information provided by the results of artifical lighting differ from the information provided by the natural phenomenea? Hmmmm...I am wondering if perhaps at your latitude (around 50 degrees which is much higher than much of the US) with your shorter day lengths} if some problems are not a little harder to see since there is less natural stimulus? For more on how artificial lighting effects horses see, Equine Reproduction » Horse Breeding & Artifical Insemination » Stimulating Mares to Cycle Early.
DrO
Member:
Paardex

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 2, 2005 - 11:03 am:

Thanks for the answer Dr O,I'm starting to realize I should read your articles before asking questions.We just use the additional light to lenghten the breeding season,{unless it is used for their coats] with irregular cycli and not very good shedding we like to wait whether spring solves this problem. Often a mare starts shedding better and having a regular cycle with a good egg without intervention but waiting for nature in Holland would mean waiting till about the end of may,as we like the foals to be born before july the season is very short.Adding daylight buys us about 6 to 8 weeks.If they don'thave a good egg with the added light[ and often work to loose weight]by the end of april we start looking for a problem.As the mare this discussion started with had been inseminated with frozen semen and checked in autumn,we should wait were she ours with testing for about 6 to 8 weeks but in the meantime add light and get her thinner to see how she does. Ofcourse I forgot that perhaps spring starts on its own a lot earlier in lots of places so forget about the light it wouldn't be of any use.
Jos
Home Page | Top of Page | Join Us!
Horseadvice.com is a BBB Accredited Business. Click for the BBB Business Review of this Horse Training in Stokesdale NC