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  Discussion on Old mare shedding
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Member:
mrose

Posted on Thursday, Jan 3, 2008 - 8:08 pm:

Dr. O., What could be causing an 27 yr. old mare to be shedding this time of year? I was grooming one of our older mares today and she is starting to shed big time. Her stall looked like late spring or early summer after I had used the curry on her back, chest and sides.

She has rather long winter hair, about an inch and a half or two inches, and this is what is shedding out. Along her top line her hair looks clumped together and very oily and "scurffy." The rest of her hair doesn't look this way, but there are dark looking areas in her coat, as if someone has rubbed charcoal or colored her with a pencil. I don't see any oiliness in these areas, but there is a little bit of black looking "dandruff" when I brush these spots hard.

Our temps have been pretty cold, highs in the 30's and lows in the teens or below, with frequent north winds. She is kept in a stall at night, mats and pine shavings. During the day she can go in and out, and gets some turnout depending on the conditions. Right now we have snow and ice underneath, so not a lot of turnout. She's not wearing a blanket, although she did last year. I am concerned about Cushings with her due to her age and conformation, so she is fed beet pulp and Equine Senior with Platinum Performance and ortho-chon and occasionally some bute for arthritis. She also gets a little hay, usually grass/alfalfa mix. The last few days the hay has been straight alfalfa (due to the way it is stacked in the loft the grass is hard to get at right now) but she only gets a few pounds/day. She has no health issues that I'm aware of, and is wormed according to your posted worming schedule. Any ideas? Thanks.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Jan 3, 2008 - 8:27 pm:

Sara my Arab gelding is doing the same, I commented to the farrier that he was shedding like spring today. He also has the black scruffy stuff along his back and so does my old girl. I think theirs is caused by the shavings getting ground in to that thick coat. I know that sounds odd, but I am pretty sure that is it. I can't brush all the shavings, dust, dirt off of them because of all that hair.

The gelding that is shedding is the one I believe has cushings. The last few years he sheds that long 2 in hair like crazy in Jan. Then pretty much stops and I have to clip the rest of it in the spring. He always has plenty left when he stops around the middle of Feb. I always hope he will completely shed out, but he never does.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Thursday, Jan 3, 2008 - 9:51 pm:

Interesting,Diane. How old is your gelding? Does he have symptoms of Cushings? My old girl is feeling a little bit ribby under all her hair,and has lost condition, but not too badly considering she's not getting ridden except for once in a while bareback across the field.

Does your gelding's coat look greasy in places also? Beau's look greasy and comes out in kind of small clumps (maybe 10 hairs) sticking together along her top line, no where else. She is also rubbing her tail, which may not be related. I just cleaned her udder area today to see if that helps.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Thursday, Jan 3, 2008 - 10:38 pm:

Sara he is 21. He has never been officially been diagnosed with cushings via blood test, but the vet and I agree he is symptomatic.

He has that long hair that don't completely shed out, has lost his topline, is a bit ribby yet fat (if you know what I mean). Very prone to founder with the wrong diet...even worse than Hank.

Vet said a few years ago I could try to control it with diet and so far that has been working pretty good as far as the founder anyway, he still gets foot sore in the fall and I have to be very careful.

The gelding and old mare had those greasy patches and chunks falling out last winter it did concern me, I thought they had rain rot. The vet came and looked at it and said it was dermaphiliosos (sp) and once they shed out it disappeared. It was also along their topline in the winter mos. but seemed to get a little worse as spring approached and spread some.

Hank has a much more "normal" winter coat...not so long and thick and he was not affected. Tail itching did seem worse when they had the scaly skin and actually towards spring the mare had those black scruffy "scabs" all along her tail bone, which made her rub her tail. Alot of brushing, dermavet/and or aloe vera gel cleared it up...took awhile tho. Have you checked her tailbone for the "scruffy" patches? I had to really peel the hair back to see it.
Member:
mrose

Posted on Friday, Jan 4, 2008 - 12:10 am:

Beau had always been the proverbial "healthy as a horse" with the only thing I can ever remember her having was a mild uterine infection which was easily cleared up. Oh yes, she also went down while I was away and either got cast or for some reason couldn't get up. She had a swelling in her upper inside right rear leg and some weakness in the leg for a while after that, but once it cleared up there have been no other symptoms. Otherwise, she's always been healthy.

She has very sound feet, but I want to keep them that way! I have looked at her tail, but haven't seen any scabbing, only small black flakes like dandruff. She had these during the summer also, especially at the very end of her tail bone. If I scrubbed hard I could get rid of them and they'd stay gone for a month or so.

I'll have to read about dermaphilosos (or what ever it is.) I'll look it up when I'm done here and see what Dr. O. has to say about it. I did read about skin conditions and didn't see anything that seemed to fit, but will do a deeper search.

She's never been diagnosed with Cushings, but because of her age and her long coat I'm suspicious.

Seems like it's always something! (sigh) She's probably just feeling neglected as I'm not spending as much time in the barn as I should these last few weeks.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Friday, Jan 4, 2008 - 6:07 am:

Sara, Sam the arab gelding has probably been one of my most trouble free horses I've ever owned. He is still very healthy and full of himself.

I guess scabs was the wrong word, they get big grey flakes of dandruff. That is what the mare gets on her tailbone also. The parts that have hair stuck to them is what the vet call dermap....

I think the grey flaky skin is dry, dirty stuff. Kind of like people getting dandruff and dry skin in the winter. I'll be curious what Dr.O. has to say also.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Friday, Jan 4, 2008 - 6:58 am:

Has there been any change in the way the horse is being exposed to electric lights? Seasonal coat changes are driven primarily by the changing daylight length but can be confused by electric lighting.
DrO
Member:
mrose

Posted on Friday, Jan 4, 2008 - 11:07 am:

With the exception of one night when I mistakenly left the lights on all night (couldn't see them with the barn shut up) the lights have been on close to the same amount of time every day/night. None of the other horses is shedding. She doesn't wear a blanket either as she has such long, thick hair. I noticed that the really long hair is coming out, and there is still what would be considered a good winter coat left underneath. It isn't like she is loosing all her hair, at least not at this point.

One other weird thing about her: starting about a year ago, she will not eat the leaves in the alfalfa hay; they would just fall to the floor and rot if I didn't go in and pick them up. She eats the stems only. She prefers grass hay (which is what she gets along with the beet pulp and senior feed.) I've never had a horse that wouldn't eat alfalfa leaves. Most horses will leave the stems if they leave anything.

She acts like she feels great; she has her normal bossy, head bobbing personality and bright eyes.

Should I just groom her every day and see what happens, or take or in for a check by the vet?
Member:
mrose

Posted on Friday, Jan 4, 2008 - 11:10 am:

Diane, what she has sounds a lot like what you are talking about. Her hair along the top line comes out in kind of greasy clumps, but the rest of it just looks like normal shedding when it comes out...my coat was covered last night. There are places where she has the black flakes, but the flakes are small, more the size of human dandruff.
Member:
scooter

Posted on Saturday, Jan 5, 2008 - 6:00 am:

Sara, I don't think the black flaky things are serious, my 2 have been getting that for a few years....actually when I started using shavings for bedding. I still think it has something to do with them.

Their dermaphi... thing clears up with shedding and is probably caused by getting snowed/rained/iced on with all that dirty hair. Well not really dirty hair, but the dirt/dust and other grimies that long hair holds on their skin. Brushing seems to help, but doesn't completely get rid of it.

Has Beau normally worn a blanket? if she has maybe that's why you are seeing these problems this year since she is blanketless. I don't worry about it anymore it takes care of itself once they shed and that long hair disappears.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Jan 5, 2008 - 8:39 am:

I am trying to get a clear picture of what is happening: are the hairs in these clumps connected together forming a plague or scab? Does it leave bald spots behind? How does the skin look from these areas the hair is coming out?

You describe a pretty typical shedding event for Cushing Horses and horses can have a very variable shedding period including starting now. But I cannot rule out dermatophilus either.
DrO
Member:
chrism

Posted on Saturday, Jan 5, 2008 - 7:47 pm:

My coming 25 yo mare is starting to shed a bit - she was pretty hairy this year (can you spell YAK) but seems to always shed out.

My guess is the slightly longer day light and, so far, fairly mild winter has triggered some early shedding.

She has a lot to shed, so maybe she is getting an early start.

The coming 8 yo is not losing any.

Both are pretty much kept in natural lighting.
Member:
imogen

Posted on Sunday, Jan 6, 2008 - 10:14 am:

Hi Christine

I always see some shedding in horses here by about 2nd week in January. The hairier they are (and the whiter...) the earlier you notice it. I think it is a light related thing - it's usually the same week I notice that at last the evenings are starting to draw out.

Hope she's doing well other than the hairiness?

How is your horse therapy business going?

Imogen
Member:
mrose

Posted on Sunday, Jan 6, 2008 - 12:10 pm:

I think there are two different things going on simultaneously; there is all over shedding of very long hair; and along her top mid-line and in an area of her chest, she is shedding shorter under-hair in small clumps that do seem to be greasy and are attached to "dandruff" which doesn't look scabby, but just like a flake of skin. She is also itching her tail. I cleaned her udder area which helped some with the tail. She has black flakes in her tail, and at the very end the "scurffy" looking larger black flakes.

This mare loves to be dirty and seems to make a point of lying down in the messiest place she can find. She also urinates a lot and always right in the middle of her stall. She can barely wait for me to empty a bag of shavings so she can pee right in the middle of them. She doesn't drink any more water than the other horses.

I do have lights on in the barn on dark days, and in the evenings until about 7:30 or 8:00p.m. I've done this for years as I'm often in the barn until then and if not, go out and check on the horses around that time.

As I said earlier, I'm concerned about her becoming cushinoid due to her age and conformation, and the long hair she gets in the winter. So far, she has shed out, but if we get an early warm spring, I body clip her so she isn't overly hot.
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