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  Discussion on Could it be pelvic problem?
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New Member:
fraley

Posted on Sunday, Jan 6, 2008 - 6:32 pm:

Sorry folks but this is going to be a long post. Discovered this board today, and I wish I had seen it much sooner....

I have a 13 yo TB gelding, I have owned since he was 5. He was "tried" on the race track, was not successful, apparently I was told the jockey reported the horse "seemed uncomfortable behind" so they gelded him thinking it was his man parts jiggling that caused it. After gelding, still did not improve so he was sold.

I got him as an eventing prospect. When I tried him out, he was very head strong, pulled alot, etc. and alot of this I attributed to the track, improper training, etc. So I started out with just simple dressage training to develop his body and muscles. He always was very grumpy- always pulling and tossing his head. Went thru many things trying to figure it out, found a bit he appeared to like. He would have "moments" of spectacular work at times, wonderful self carriage, soft in the hand, body bending, etc. But then followed by a hollowed back, high head, pulling, and refusing to go forward at times. I progressed him to the point of showing some training level dressage. I think I was just happy that I finally got to do something with him more or less.

Spent some time with a professional dressage trainer, and into his training of lateral work, and smaller circles, he started showing soreness of the left hind. Did diags and xrays, never found anything wrong. Grade 1 lameness, sent home on stall rest 30 days. Can out sound, started into training again. Had some slight right front lameness. Again, nothing found to attribute this to.

Years of this same thing go on- when the horse is free, he can do one tempis in teh field, can do the biggest extended trot. But under saddle, grumpy, doesnt want to go, yanks you into the canter, etc. On the longe line, he would throw his head to the ground, hop on his hind end, refuse to go foward, or fly into the canter and gallop.

I have spent days where he would not go foward, I would get off put on longe line, horse goes foward fine, I get on, horse wont go.

I have three saddles I purchased for him, thinking it was saddle fit.

Chiropractic treatments improved him but only for short periods of time. Chiro mentions that his back is fairly "bad" in terms of it gets all out of whack between treatments.

Brings me to this past summer- horse in pasture I notice as he is walking he is dragging his right hind toe. Immediately get him, he is really off. Vets come, do nero exam, trot and walk in hand, draw blood. Said it could either be CVM or EPM.

Blood test positive for EPM. 4 weeks of Marquis. Horse gets worse initially, then slowly starts to improve. For awhile, his right hind leg was basically walking on his left hind foot. It was so bad it was creating a sore from his right hind constantly hitting the left hind. I had huge pillow wraps I had to put on his legs for days at a time. Horse slowly improves.

I rode him under saddle for the first time Oct 21. He was walking on two tracks again, hind feet following the front feet. Started slow walking work a few times a week, and when the snow started coming, went indoors for in-hand work.

Put down a grid and some poles, working on strengthening his hind end. We walk thru the grid forwards and backwards, he can back very well. Cavaletti and pole work coming along, he is no longer dragging right hind, picking it up not banging hte poles. I was so happy.

Two days ago, bring him in from outside, he is not right. I notice he is really walking crooked and something is not right.

He is refusing to bear weight on his right hind- if you push him over and make him stand on the right hind, his left hind leg goes on its toe, starts bending and crumpling like he will fall down and he almost did today when my trimmer was here for his feet. His hind feet are totally worn and broken only on their left sides, showing he is bearing all his weight on the left hind.

When standing, he puts all weight on left hind and right front. (note over the last years those are the only two limbs that ever were lame)

In his stall, he is leaning up against the wall on the left to support himself and stay off the right hind. When I take him out to walk, the hind end swings left, and he is walking in four separate tracks almost like he is doing a haunches in move-

His right hind leg is toed out to the right more than usual. I checked him all over, nothing reacts to touch, or palpation except around the sacrum he seems sore.

I had a horse rehab person look at photos and video of him a few weeks ago to see if she would help me develop a rehab program, and she said her first gut feeling was that he looked like a horse that had had some sort of pelvic injury at some point of his life probably before I ever got him. She also said he was crooked- that he was a "right handed" horse- meaning he bore all his front weight on teh right and all his hind weight on the left- and the reason those limbs were the ones to go sore were they were the ones compensating and carrying the weight and that I needed to work on getting him to be straight and carry weight on all four legs. I did this by walking him in hand, and keeping a pointer on his left hip to remind him to put weight to the right.

At times, he would walk stiff legged like a frankenstein monster or something. My farrier has a hard time with his hind legs as they are stiff and he says his range of motion is about 25% of what most horses he shoes is-

Reading all these other posts about horses with pelvic injuries some of them sound so much like things that have been going on with my horse for so many years and I have never been able to find out what was wrong- we always referred to Teddy as the horse thats "just not quite right"- and I had basically given up all hopes of ever successfully riding or showing him.

At this point, I just want him to be sound and comfortable, but right now he is having a hard time just standing up behind. The rehab lady said maybe I had over worked him, as in our rehab work he was learning how to be straight so we thought maybe I made "something" sore in the back end by making it carry weight more than it was ever used to doing.

So, right now he is putting his left hind completely under himself and standing on it and his right front, and leaning his butt against the wall on the left.

The vets come, and say "could be EPM coming back, or could be CVM"- only way to know is myleogram. But so much of it sounds like the horses with pelvic issues and not one vet in all the times I have had him to the university has even talked about looking at his pelvis.

Any ideas? Thoughts? Questions?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Jan 7, 2008 - 3:28 am:

Welcome Leslie,
Though your symptoms sound like others descriptions of pelvic fractures the similarities you mention above are not specific for either disease. However the appearance of a pelvic injury should be different than one of neurological deficit to the trained eye. For a careful explanation on the differences in the appearance, compare the descriptive portions of these articles:
1) Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Localizing Lameness in the Horse
2) Diseases of Horses » Nervous System » Incoordination, Weakness, Spasticity, Tremors » Diagnosing Incoordination, Ataxia and Weakness

It sounds like those trained eyes believe the recent exacerbation is still neurological. If you feel this may be in error I would recommend a second opinion from a specialist as myelograms are very expensive. Since there was improvement following a course of Marquis and EPM is known for recurring it certainly puts it high on the suspect list. Also, it would be hard to explain a the 2 month improvement if your horse is a Wobbler or has a unhealed pelvic fracture.
DrO
New Member:
fraley

Posted on Monday, Jan 7, 2008 - 5:25 pm:

Thank you very much for your help. I spoke with my vet from OSU today, and asked him how likely it was that EPM "reocccurs" and he said "very rarely"-

My thinking wasnt really related to the EPM but more toward all the little problems I was having with my horse before he ever had EPM and after it, were they related to a pelvic injury?

And, yes, you are right, the EPM symptoms went away with treatment, however, all the "other" things that the horse has done for the last 8 years didnt go away- not wanting to go foward, not wanting to "sit" behind, not wanting to bend his hind legs up for the farrier, walking stiff legged behind, not wanting to do lateral work esp with the left hind leg he never wanted to step 'out' to the left with it to do lateral work, head throwing, bunny hopping at the canter, refusing to pick up the canter to the left, etc. Those things did not go away after he was treated with EPM.

These are the things I am wondering are they related to a possible pelvic injury? The horse has done them since I owned him, and continues to do them to this day- the EPM was just another bump in the road for him; however, all these main things have not gone away.

Does that make my question more clear?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jan 8, 2008 - 9:05 am:

Concerning recurrence of EPM following cessation of ponazuril (Marquis), the information from your OSU source is not consistent with the one large study (101 horses with EPM) that I can find that addresses this issue. 8% of the horses in this study, improved noticeably during therapy but in the following 90 days after regressed and therapy considered unsuccessful.

Since you don't list "lameness at the trot" as a symptom, a nonhealed pelvic fracture does not seem likely, though bilateral lameness may cause "stiffness". Even with such a symptom there are many possible causes that to properly diagnose require a systematic approach and described in the Localizing Lameness article.

Hmmm...have you investigated chronic muscle disorders (myopathies)? For more on these see Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Muscle & Tendon Diseases » Rhabdomyolysis: Tying Up, Shivers, PSSM, EPSM.
DrO
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