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  Discussion on Sediment in Bladder
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New Member:
Kimturne

Posted on Monday, Mar 7, 2005 - 2:01 am:

I have a 8 year old Trakehner Gelding that started having very discolored urine (on and off) about 1 1/2 months ago. Sometimes the urine would all be normal colored and other times the stream would start normal and would end with anything from brown/red to brown/black
colorations. I had two urinalysis' done. The first one (done 2 weeks ago) showed that everything was normal - no blood found, no infection. The problem with this sample was that it was from urine caught mid-stream and contained none of the thick stuff from the end of the stream. We did a second sample a couple of days ago. In this sample, we were able to catch the end stream. While the sediment was not red, it was very noticiable in the urine vial and seperated quickly from the liquid. The second urinalysis again showed no blood, but Protein was "1+" which was listed as "high". We also ultrasounded the bladder. All seemed normal with the bladder, except there were large
amounts of sediment floating around. At this point the vet wants to wait a month to see what will happen. I'm not sure that I feel comfortable to just sit back and see. A flush of the bladder was also suggested. Why would my
gelding have so much sediment in his bladder ? I feel like the occasional blood that I see in the end part of the urine stream is from irritation to the bladder when the sediment gets tossed around during our training sessions. Could this be possible ? Is it worth flushing his bladder? I do believe that the sediment causes him some pain as urination is sometimes
frequent (3 times an hour) and I also see him
"park-out" as if to relieve some pressure on his
bladder.
For the last year, my gelding has been on either oat, timothy or alfalfa diet (combined), with alfalfa being no more than 2 flakes per day. For the past 2 months, I have switched him over to all grass hay (timothy/orchard) so it seems odd to me that there is so much calcium carbonate in his urine. Since the sediment (calcium) is so visable on ultrasound and to the naked eye in the urine stream, could it possibly combine in his bladder to form a stone ?
Any help would be greatly appreciated. I have a long history with this amazing animal and have been with him through colic (non surgical) and spinal fusion surgery (C6 and C7). We are just getting back to work and all seemed to be going well until I noticed the straining and
discolored urine.
Oh, I forgot..... we also did blood tests.
The test came out very similar to ones done over the past couple of years. Following are some of the findings: AST -155 -Low, Total Bilirubin- 2.7 - High, Albumin -4.0 -High, BUN -16 -Normal, Creatinine -1.1 -Low, WBC - 4.6- Low, HCT - 32- Low, MCHC -38 -High, Neutrophils - 2162 -low.

Thanks again !
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Mar 7, 2005 - 6:46 am:

Almost all horses have some amount of sediment in their bladder. Horses are unique in their ability to get rid or excess calcium in their urine and precipitation in the bladder normal. Now that you have discontinued the alfalfa, and assuming no other sources of high calcium in the diet this should gradually reduce the amount but will probably never be 0. Also phytopigments in the urine can cause a much darker and even a reddish colored urine so until this is positively identified as abnormal or blood I am not sure this indicates you have a problem. The dipsticks are very sensitive to blood. +1 on a urine dipstick is low for protein on all the dipstick brands I have used and about normal for horses. Though you have some abnormals on the blood I don't see anything that worries me or indicates disease of the urinary system.

That brings us to the frequent or difficult urination: this is not normal and if you feel this is actually happening I think it should be pursued and attempting to flush the excess precipitate out of the bladder might be the place to start. Also culturing the urethra might be useful as urethritis does occur and give the symptoms you describe.
DrO
Member:
Kimturne

Posted on Monday, Mar 7, 2005 - 12:37 pm:

Dr. O,
Thank-you SO much for getting back to me quickly. I wish that my vet would have explained the readings as concisely as you just did. I will observe my horse closely over the next couple of weeks to see if I can detect any
changes.
In regards to the bladder flush - my gelding is quite the sensitive creature and it just appears to me, through subtle posturing, that urination "hurts" a bit.
Lots of stretching out and moaning for a little bit of urine to come out (only sometimes). If this continues, I think I will have the vet perform the flush and the culture.
I will also recheck all my supplements to see if there is hidden calcium in any of them. It still seems odd to me that all this calcium should appear in the urine AFTER I have taken him off of all the Alfalfa.
Again, many thanks !
New Member:
Talon7

Posted on Sunday, Mar 13, 2005 - 4:07 pm:

Dr-

Hi - my 8yr old Holsteiner/cross gelding has been having the EXACT same symtoms since Dec 04.

I bought him in Nov - very healthy - then he got a URI (cough, goopy nose, the works) and we put him on SMZ's. Soon after, we (my trainer and I) started noticing the urination problem.

He goes several times while working, sometimes alot, sometimes not, and after the second one, it will be red or colored, but not all the time. He would grunt and pass gas as well. He is having training issues (dressage horse) rounding back, canter departs. He even pees alot in the pasture. He is fed an orchard/brome/teensy alfalfa hay. I thought the alfalfa prob would be just for enteroliths, tho.

Did blood tests and the vet didn't see anything abnormal. I did a catch and it was all mucousy, (gross)but I then realized it was on a Sat nite so I was going to wait and do another one on a week day.

I did talk to the vet and he said that if it were a bladder infection that he would start with the apple cider vinegar anyway, so we are doing that (btw, do the apple cider vinegar tablets work as well? they are alot easier to feed) -

The glands around his jaw seem enlarged, but he is very perky and eats well - Could he have developed a bladder infection of some kind?

I am starting to suspect a stone - I sure hope not.

Thanks, Judy
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Mar 14, 2005 - 8:46 am:

Hello Judith,
I cannot find any work that suggests vinegar is a adequate urine acidifier in horses. The acetic acid can be used as a energy source and I am not sure how much reaches the bladder. For well established methods to acidify the urine see, Equine Diseases » Urinary System » Kidney Stones.

The swellings around the jaw would not have anything to do with a bladder infection,instead a fresh caught urine sample should be analyzed.
DrO
Member:
Kimturne

Posted on Wednesday, Mar 16, 2005 - 9:30 pm:

Hi Dr. O,
I have a couple of more quesitons regarding the Trakehner gelding that I discussed above. I now know that the "blood" that appeared in the urine was an optical illusion. I am still worried about the sediment aspect. I would say that about 50% of the times that I see my gelding urinate, only about a cup of urine comes out. All this effort to "set-up" for just a cup?
I get the feeling that the sediment pressing/filling the bladder gives him the urge to pee, even though there is not lots of urine. He stays parked-out as if waiting for the more to come out and the urge to go away.
In regards to flushing the bladder, I am not sure how that works. First off, why would my horse not be able to get rid of the sediment ? Can there be a problem with the bladder itself ?
Does the bladder contract to push out the urine or is it just gravity ? Why would the insertion of a catheter allow the sediment to come out when it's diameter has to be smaller than the diameter of the urethra itself?
Any help is very much appreciated.
Thanks !
Kim
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Mar 17, 2005 - 7:20 am:

1) Sometimes the sediment congeals on the bottom of the bladder and has to be broken up and flushed away. The procedure does not always work and either surgery or lithotripsy is required to break it down and remove.

2)Yes bladder atony is occasionally reported in horses. This is where the bladder loses its ability to contract.

3)By flushing large volumes rapidly you might be able to breakup a sticky but fine particled sediment. If it has hardened sufficiently this will not work.
DrO
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