|
|
Discussion on Lamitis episodes
|
| Author |
Message |
New Member:
cinder
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 - 3:40 pm:
Okay, last week I had mentioned my horse Cinder stocking up on all fours for some unknown reason. After a $300 vet bill , I'm still not sure, neither is the vet. She foundered (2nd time in 5 years) last April and has been having recurrent laminitis episodes (3) since then. I'm still puzzled as to why she stocked up still, my vet keeps telling me he suspects it was due to her being anemic decreased movement (found out this week that she is not anemic-their (vets) machine was not working. She is out with other horses during the day, trots to the pasture, runs with them (I live in TN, so the pasture is dry). When she first foundered it was very severe and a tenotomy was done on her right. Although she was stalled for about two-three weeks at the most during the acute stage, my vet (at that time) recommended exercise, just some walking to begin as tolerated. The farrier put pads on her and she did very well. With the pads on, she was able to move around pretty good and I returned her to a smaller pasture (for several hours per day)with other horses. If I remember right, the pads were on her for two months and then she was barefoot, frequent trims and diet. This horse is remarkable, we had moved, she was trailered 600 miles, was field boarded in 30 acres during the summer, had hard as rock soles,  never had any problems and she eventually returned to light riding, she has lots of get up and go. Last spring, even though slowly transitioning her to the pasture, it was too much-she foundered again. I have a new vet who recommended complete stall rest. This was April/18, on 5/21 the vet trimmed and unfortunately he trimmed her toe back too much exposing a (gas opacity in the sole)hole by the toe, recommended stall rest, iodine wraps to protect from abscess. Before the vet trimmed, my horse was doing pretty good, I was walking her 10 minutes a day, she wanted to take off and run. I didn't notice any pain/tenderness. Vet still wanted her stalled. After the trim, she was back to square one again. Beginning 7/21, vet recommended 1 hour walking/grazing per day (30 minutes at a time). She still wanted to run. In Aug I couldn't take it, she looked depressed being stalled so much. I started to put her in a small (like an xtra large stall) area outside, she moved well, still wants to run. Put her in the round pen (sandy footing), she acts normal, bucking, running. September, right front (the tenotomy leg) is swollen. She walks okay, no apparent pain. Vet said she had another laminitis episode. Oct-vet check-horse had increased rotation from 10 degrees on both fronts to 22 degrees on rt and 14 on left. Vet recommends being on total stall rest again. The last vet check due to her stocking up, showed no improvement in rotation. My question (finally) wouldn't exercise have been more beneficial to circulation and a quicker response to healing than being stalled so much? It seems like she is very prone to these episodes now whereas when she foundered so severely, she recovered so much quicker without any episodes. I can understand the stall rest on the acute stage and trying to avoid any further damage with exercise, but there must be a fine line here. My instinct told me to get her out of the stall and let her move more going against the vets recommendation. I did let her out on a dry lot more often than was recommended. Even the farrier had recommended less stall time and to begin light exercise. Now it concerns me that she has not improved in the rotation since October. Thanks again!!
|
Member:
scooter
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 - 7:55 pm:
Lydia I don't quite understand what your concern is, if it because her coffin bone rotation isn't getting better (per x-ray) it is because they have to grow a new hoof combined with very good trims. So to see improvement in her coffin bone rotation it takes awhile. Read the article on de-rotation.
If you are concerned that she is still sore, she has a great deal of rotation according to your vet, some horses never do become sound, but don't despair it is very possible. The best way to doing it is to read that article carefully, make sure you have a good farrier and cross your fingers. Sounds like watching her carbs would be a very good idea also. Good article in here about that too. I'm sure after you read those articles and then have questions Dr.O. would be glad to help you. I have a foundered horse who also is IMO IR. It is a long journey, but he is finally sound thanks to Dr.O.'s great articles, his help, along with the members. Good Luck
|
Member:
scooter
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 - 7:59 pm:
Also forgot to mention when Hank was at his worse during his laminatic attack, he was also stocked up in fronts and backs,he was able to move at his own pace in a dry lot, but it didn't seem as tho it went away until he was on the road to recovery.
|
New Member:
cinder
|
Posted on Thursday, Jan 24, 2008 - 10:10 pm:
Thanks Diane. I'm watching the carbs for sure. I guess I'm just wanting her recovery response to be better like she did on her first go round 5 years ago. It took time for healing, but without all the laminitic episodes she is having now. I'll keep reading the articles. Thanks again.
|
Member:
paul303
|
Posted on Friday, Jan 25, 2008 - 12:50 am:
Run a search on "rotation" and just start reading. If only for the purpose of discovering how "not alone" you are.
|
Member:
scooter
|
Posted on Friday, Jan 25, 2008 - 6:22 am:
Lydia if she is continuing to have laminitis episodes, I would try to figure out why? Until you can figure out the cause she may continue.
How old is Cinder? Are her feet trimmed and balanced well? I know with Hank a long toe will make him sore. If she is having a laminitis attack I wouldn't move her...the lamanaie will continue to tear. Does she have coffin bone support? The styrofoam protocol works very well to make them comfortable. I feel your pain founder is a terrible disease and sometimes figuring it out takes alot of time....is it possible she has cushings?
|
Member:
cinder
|
Posted on Friday, Jan 25, 2008 - 8:58 pm:
Diane E. Cinder will be 11 years in May. She gets trimmed every 3-4 weeks. When she has the attacks I don't move her, she is stalled. The last couple of times she had an attack, it didn't seem to bother her much as far as pain. She was not doing the founder stance/walk. She actually moved okay. I have read about cushings-she does not seem to have the symptoms that would make me suspect of it, but I'm still looking into that. I'm trying to eliminate all the possibilities that bring these onsets so I can figure out why she is having these episodes. I keep thinking that she was just stalled way to long, basically 6 months this past year (even though she was moving pretty good during hand grazing) and didn't get the exercise to promote circulation and strength/conditioning to her feet/legs. Anyhow, I'll keep reading the articles see what I can find. Thanks bunch, I appreciate your feedback.
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Saturday, Jan 26, 2008 - 7:12 am:
Hello Lydia,
Whether to allow free exercise or not does depend on exactly where you are and that is not clear in your post where you are right now however while rotating exercise is contraindicated. Start with the article on Founder Overview to get our thoughts on the subject. Note that exercise alone will not correct rotation, it is a permanent change that requires therapeutic trimming to remove (see the articles associated with this forum). Lastly I do not see anything that rules out Equine Metabolic SynDrOme.
DrO
|
Member:
cinder
|
Posted on Saturday, Jan 26, 2008 - 1:25 pm:
Dr. O, I'm not sure what you meant by where I am at, if it's her rotation, she is at 22 rt, 14 lt-has been since October. She gets trimmed every 3-4 weeks, keeping the toe short/heel low. Actually had the farrier here yesterday her feet look great. I understand that exercise will not correct the rotation alone, but I was thinking on lines that the exercise would have helped promote the healing process little more than being idle for so many months. The first vet before we moved, recommended exercise. The current vet recommended continued stall rest. She's outside during the day (I live in TN and dry lot is dry)so she gets daily exercise. I have been reading up on the EMS and discussed with the vet about testing for IR. The vets office recommended putting her on black oil sunflower seeds, so I'll be doing some research on that now too. I'll keep reading on EMS/founder/rotation. Thank you so much for your time.
|
Member:
scooter
|
Posted on Saturday, Jan 26, 2008 - 1:58 pm:
Lydia I think Dr.O. meant at what stage she is at....if she is still acute or if she has stabalized. With that much rotation, maybe corrective shoeing would help her until she grows a new hoof. I tried to leave Hank barefoot, but with the thinning sole he needed shoes and equipak... of course with a proper trim and breakover to get him jump started. After 4 cycles of shoes he is back barefoot, he was immediately 100% better once the routed out shoe/equipak was applied. Your mare has more rotation than Hank. His was estimated at 8degree in both, but remember there are great differentials in determining rotation. Can you post a pic of her hooves and x-rays. That may help Dr.O. give you some guidance. Unfortuanetly I have been down the expensive route of supplements, no supplement or Boss is going to cure your mare. The best thing for her is to make sure her diet is tight, her shoeing is correct, and time. Unless you feel there is some other medical cause. Again good luck and I hope your mare recovers.
|
Member:
cinder
|
Posted on Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 - 9:53 am:
Diane E. Her initial acute stage was last April-then May after the trim that exposed the sensitive tissue. Her soles are hard as rocks. In Sept the vet suspected another acute episode, even though she moved well at that time, with no appearance of pain/tenderness (not to say she didn't have any pain, she just didn't act like she did). I would say she has been stabilized since June/July. As for the sunflower seeds, I know it will not cure her, but if it will help promote healing, I'll give it whirl. I will try to take pictures of her feet and the latest xray. Thanks so much for your time.
|
Moderator:
DrO
|
Posted on Sunday, Jan 27, 2008 - 11:42 am:
I don't know anyway that sunflower seeds would be beneficial if the nutrition is otherwise good.
DrO
|
|
|
