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  Discussion on Not quite talk therapy
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Member:
carlaa

Posted on Tuesday, Feb 12, 2008 - 11:46 am:

Hi Dr. Olgesby,

I have just attended my fourth workshop/seminar for Neurotherapy Using the LENS (Low Energy Neurofeedback System)at Stone Mountain Center in New Paltz, NY. This treatment is a form of biofeedback and has been designed to help heal the brain from such insults as physical and emotional injury and the resulting issues: personality change, depression, memory loss, PTSD, anger, "stuck" (unable to learn from mistakes), seizures, etc. This treatment is a positive aid in many other issues, but these are not related to my questions.

"The LENS approach appears to address underlying neuropsychological functions as a rehabilitation tool increasing the self-regulatory capabilities of the brain. It appears to do this by re-toning the brain's reaction to stimulation, interrupting the inhibitory self-protective mechanisms of the brain that interfere with connectivity, and facilitates cortical functioning that integrates sub-cortical electrical activity and normalizes recorded scalp potentials. This takes the form of reducing high amplitudes and releasing the suppression on abnormally low recorded amplitudes. The emphasis is on disrupting dysfunctional patterns and letting the brain re-establish the connections in ways it sees fit to do, without micromanagement. The mechanisms by which this process occurs are not understood at this time. If, however, the calculations generating the feedback are corrupted or removed, improvements in functioning are no longer seen." "LENS involves measuring and recording electrical signals from the scalp, and using the frequencies of those signals to guide the speed of the feedback signal from a feedback assembly to the client. The extremely weak electromagnetic pulses come from the EEG cables and are neither visible nor able to be felt. The recorded EEG signals influence the electromagnetic feedback; the feedback, in turn, changes the quantity and frequency of the recorded brainwaves signals. The intensity of the field is less than a trillionth of a watt and is on for a few seconds during each session. For reference, a cellular telephone generates a signal millions of times the power of the LENS feedback signal."

The website for Dr. Stephen Larson at Stone Mountain is: www.stonemountaincenter.com. Dr. Larson wrote The Healing Power of Neurofeedback, The Revolutionary LENS Technique for Restoring Optimal Brain function. The person who designed this treatment is Dr. Len Ochs and his website is: www.ochslabs.com. It is devoted to just the LENS and is very clear to read and understand.

The Journal of Neurotherapy, the official journal of the International Society for Neurofeedback and Research includes, in issues Volume 10, numbers 2/3, 2006, articles on the "LENS" and "The LENS Neurofeedback with Animals". This is available on line at https://jn.haworthpress.com. This article is fascinating and raises the questions of can and how to help damaged animals.

There are many counseling centers throughout the world that offer this non-medical, non-invasive treatment. I have seen first hand amazing healing occurring for the right situations. Some of us involved with Stone Mountain have our own animals of which most of them are rescues. We have been using this treatment on our animals and have found many behaviors attributed to confusion, naughtiness or fear are resolved. These were not training issues as much as issues due to physical injury or abuse (physical or emotional). The University of California at Davis conducted research on neurofeedback. Both Holiday and Williams have since retired: their research had been on line for a duration, although I believe it no longer is. Diana Grubbs is presently working with Cory Hammond (see Journal of Neurotherapy) as lead and with Len Ochs as consultant, on a project with UC Davis to perform a study on the effects of the LENS on animal behavior problems. Using this therapy is a strange topic for most veterinarians to consider or even know that it exists, as it is primarily used in conjunction with psychotherapy. We've tried to interest our local veterinarians in this treatment to no avail.

Several of us would like to offer/volunteer neurofeedback to equine rescue organizations, animal sanctuaries and ASPCA's. While non of us are veterinarians, we are certified in the use of EEG for treatment. Some of us have a BS in science.

And so, the questions....How can this treatment be offered by a lay person? We have concerns about legality and ethics. As this is not a medical procedure, are there any laws regarding using psychological modalities on animals? If this can be done, what would one do for insurance? I have liability insurance for teaching dressage through Farm Family, but this is so new and cutting edge, that not even the health insurance companies know what to do with it. Anyway, we are all hoping that we can help these furry people. We have all seen animals suffer.

Sorry that this is so long. I couldn't ask the questions without providing information. Thank you for any input. Truly. Carla Adinaro.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 - 7:25 am:

Searching PubMed, MayoClinic, and then eventually WebMD I find no information published on "Low Energy Neurofeedback System". PubMed has all major published scientific and medical literature as current as what will be published next month and as old as the 1970's.

Going to the Och's Website I find this information which is a simplified rehash of your information above:
Introduction to LENS
The LENS , or Low Energy Neurofeedback System, uses a very low power electromagnetic field, like the ones that surround digital watches and wires in the wall, to carry feedback to the person receiving it. The feedback travels down the same wires carrying the brain waves to the amplifier and computer. Although the feedback signal is weak, it produces a measurable change in the brainwaves without conscious effort from the individual receiving the feedback. The LENS software allows the EEG signals that are recorded at the scalp to control the feedback.

Neurofeedback uses a feedback frequency that is different from, but correlates with, the dominant brainwave frequency. When exposed to this feedback frequency, the EEG amplitude distribution changes in power. Most of the time the brain waves reduce in power; but at times they also increase in power. In either case the result is a changed brainwave state, and much greater ability for the brain to regulate itself.

To be honest Carla the above websites, references including "The Journal of Neurotherapy", look self serving and the conclusions of benefit...uncertain at best. I will watch for any work that suggests otherwise but at this time I see no rationale for the procedure in horses.
DrO
PS: Carla by creating titles that briefly describe the subject of the discussion, it makes finding information much easier for members.
Member:
canter

Posted on Wednesday, Feb 13, 2008 - 1:20 pm:

Carla, for what it's worth: My husband and I researched NFB as an alternative to or a way to reduce meds for a family member with severe ADHD. What we found and experienced is that although through NFB the brain waves changed, it did not translate to a change in behavior. Even for people, there are no good studies that prove that this is an effective treatment. Also, at least for people, it is hideously expensive to lease the software, thus I would think it would make it difficult for you or anyone to recoup your expenses if you were to purchase/lease equipment to administer the treatment to animals (in people, they claim that a minimum of 20 hours of NFB is needed to change behavior) My other thought is that the cable connections (transmitors) that go from subject to computer must maintain a steady connection for the computer to accurately read the brain waves and supply feedback. It is difficult to keep a child still long enough to finish a 30 minute session; I'm not sure how you would keep an animal quiet and still without sedation.

Frankly, after direct experience with it--admittedly no experience with it for animals, though-- I feel its nothing more than a scam intended to take money off of people desperate to help their children. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but I want to be honest with you regarding my experience with it.
Member:
canter

Posted on Thursday, Feb 14, 2008 - 7:25 am:

Carla, I also wanted to add that I don't think YOU are trying to scam people. Through my experience, I found a lot of genuine people that really believed NFB would help, but the science doesn't support it, nor does my direct experience.

After thinking about my first post, I didn't want you to think I was accusing you of anything as the post may have been a bit "strong" at the end, since I am one of those parents desperate to help my child. My apologies if I came off the wrong way.
Member:
carlaa

Posted on Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 - 10:18 am:

Hay there, Fran. Thank you for your input. Sorry I took so long to respond. No, I did not take offence to your letter. Thank you for being sensitive to that possibility. The day you posted, while I was waiting for my vet to come and do a Lyme titer on my guys, I started to feel real crummy. I had every symptom of Lyme except the bulls eye. Again. In the winter. In the snow. I heart NY. Come visit. Bring meds! Still feel like a cat's hairball, but am sorta functioning. Lyme is so prevalent here that Cornell School of Veterinary Medicine recommends using the dog vac. for horses. In the spring 2007 newsletter, www.rhinebeckequine.com, the vets recommend the dog vac. It helps to lesson the symptons....They do a titer and if the horse is neg. the horse gets the vac every 6 months. Back in 1993, I volunteered at Westchester Medical Center to participate in a research project for Lyme disease. 800 people were involved; 400 got a placebo: 400 got the Lyme vac. I was lucky(?). I got the vac. please note - the vac is off the market....Scary. The doxy is not easily absorbed by horses or people. I have several friends who after years of doxy now have shunts in their elbows and shove tetracycline in it 2 X's/day. Many horses are automatically started on the shunt, esp. if they don't get turned out much- show horses. It is endemic here. So sad. This disease was first reported by a mother in Lyme, Ct, who noticed many children having the same strange sickness. Rumor has it that it originated on an army base on an island off the coast of Ct, near Lyme. I heart our government.

So, about your e mail. I know. There are no good studies that prove that this is an effective treatment. Actually, it is more than that. There are no studies, period. studies usually involve animals. Let's see if this drug works on the animal or kills it. So, the animals bear the brunt of being the guinea pigs. Sorry...bad pun. And using people? Who wants to volunteer to maybe getting treatment or only getting a placebo and being depressed etc. with no help, no cure, no end in site and trying to keep a job, be a parent, go to school?

I hear you regarding NFB ia a scam. But which one of the hundreds of different NFB's is the scam? There are literally hundreds of traditional NFB programs. All of them use different equipment, different protocols and are for different issues. I am not familiar with them except for this piece: NFB's are about entrainment. The therapist decides what the issues/problems are- picks protocol and the client is trained to increase or decrease specific brainwaves to counter balance what the problem is. NFB is on the fringe. LENS is on the fringe of NFB. And ADHD is one of the hardest issues to relieve or see changes. One can see the brainwaves on the screen that indicate the probability of ADHD. And as for guaranteeing relief of symptoms in 20 visits- sounds suspicious at best.

LENS is patented and designed to receive the brainwaves using an EEG, display them on the computer screen, where the technician can see both raw data and each individual wave (delta, theta,alpha, lo beta, beta, hi beta, SMR). Observing the amplitudes and frequencies of these waves gives clues as to what might be going on in the brain. Where in the brain these high or low amplitudes and frequencies occur also give clues. In other words,there are road signs for the possibility of ADHD, bi polar, depression, head injuries, seizures, ect. This is not a diagnostic tool, only a means to gather clues and information. In a situation where ADHD is an issue, there is slowing of frontal brainwaves associated with sleep or daydreaming (delta and theta). This interferes with focus and paying attention. So, the kid self medicates- to keep awake- he becomes disruptive. So, the Rx is Ritalin with a stimulant and other chemicals. solves the problem except we're talking about a child whose frontal lobes are not fully developed until the early 20's. Chemicals in a developing brain....?? Now, after the computer records these waves, the computer "tweaks" the waves and returns them to the brain slightly altered. This gently nudges the brain to heal, to change the pattern of processing. The client finds his brain functioning to be more flexible,(this- I didn't "get it" until I got it), increased ability to learn, be creative, to be clear minded, increased memory, plus more. Instead of being caught in the loop of doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results( definition of insanity- 1953- Einstein), now one can go Whoopie! Try plan B, try Plan C and so on. No more "stuck". No more making the same mistakes over and over. No more indecision, wishy-washy thinking. LENS is SO different than traditional NFB.

My experience with this is first hand. I was "gifted" with a mother who was the poster child for bi polar. Then I had a horse fall on me when I was 13 and in 9th grade. Major head injury. I was in a coma for 4 months. I went from being a smart kid reading at college level and all grades were A+s to being less than a mediocre student. At that time, no one seemed to know that ANY head injury could result in personality changes, inability to focus, concentrate, remember, understand, have a loss of verbal skills, and on and on.... I did get a BA in Biology, and a BS in History. Not easy. Somewhere around the age of 55, I stumbled onto Stone Mountain and started to receive LENS treatment. Mapping 19 sites of the brain, studying the brainwave graphs, one could see: slight ADD, slight bi polar, and all head injuries received over a lifetime of riding orangutans. But even more important- the results - I had had no idea how much of a fog I had been in, how "stuck" my thinking had been, how poor my memory was, how depressed I had been....I was awakened! No more chemicals! The last map showed no ADD, no bi polar, and only slight indication of the first major brain insult. Yippeeee!

My experience with this is also second hand. Having gone to all the workshops/seminars and conferences, I have met many psychologists and psychiartrists (remember- MD first) from all over the US and the WORLD who have come to this process due to tragedies in their own life (brain injured spouse, post traumatic synDrOme, child born disabled,) and because of this improvement or success in their family member, are now using this treatment in their practice. These are people who are far more educated and brilliant than I can even imagine and they are so impressed with the changes in their clients. These are also people who had tried other NFB treatments to no avail and in desperation tried LENS.

For us to volunteer this service, we do not need to purchase the computer, EEG, software, wires, rest of the equipment. Stone Mountain already has many sets of equipment for us to use. We have already been doing this treatment on our animals and friend's animals for years. The therapists there are all excited about us doing this and are far more than just encouraging- they are training us to do this AND providing the equipment! It is so exciting!

But this is a moot point. I didn't ask Dr. Oglesby what he thought about the treatment, but only what the legal and ethical repercussions/ramifications would be. Would the Vet Police come and take away my birthday or throw me in jail? And now even that is a moot point. When Dr. Mort came to do draw blood the other day, I got up the courage to ask him and he said- "Go for it. Call it energy balancing. People do massage, animal communication, Reike, and energy balancing all the time. Even chiropractic and acupuncture is mainstream here"

So, anyway, thank you for your kind thoughts. I just have a different history than you do, so have come to a different conclusion. And I am sorry that you had a bad experience with this. But I'm impressed that you even read it. Carla.
Member:
canter

Posted on Sunday, Feb 17, 2008 - 1:33 pm:

Carla, we will have to agree to disagree on this one . Regardless, I hope that you don't have Lymes and that you feel better soon. (A friend of my parents was one of the very first diagnosed with Lymes some 20+ years ago - he lived in Old Lyme Ct-. I saw first hand what Lymes can do to a person who was not treated. Back then, they had no idea what was wrong with him and he went untreated for years. It basically turned a young man into an old man in a very short period of time...it was very sad).

Take care of yourself.
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