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| Discussion on Lameness in Hindquarters or Not??? | |
| Author | Message |
| New Member: vickij1 |
Posted on Friday, Mar 7, 2008 - 8:44 pm: Hello All:I am at a loss on what to do next with my 12 yr old QH mare. I got her this past summer. The guy who sold her to me said she had "shin splints" and could be ridden but needed to be wrapped tightly for support. I have only ridden her once and there was no noticable heat or swelling. My intent was to give her the summer and winter to rehab. Recently I have noticed that she favors her right rear (the injured one) while standing. I have also noticed that she drags her hind feet when she walks. I still do not feel any heat but I am thinking she might be acquiring arthritis. She is pastured all winter in NW Colorado and it has been a really snowy cold winter. Before I spend more money on vet bills I wanted to get some opinions on what you all thought might be warranted. Before you ask Dr. O I have read all your articles on joint desease, ringbone, arthritis and more and I still feel it is hard to diagnose what is going on. Any advise? Thanks very much for your time Vicki J |
| Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Saturday, Mar 8, 2008 - 9:00 am: Hello Vicki,You should note that standing on one hind leg, even seeming to preferentially one leg, and dragging the hind toes are not "absolute" signs of lameness. You don't list the article on diagnosing lameness above and it seems to be the one you need now, so I will bring it up here: Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Localizing Lameness in the Horse. If after studying the parameters of diagnosing lameness you feel you have a problem, my advice would be to find someone who can diagnose the problem, without a diagnosis you cannot make firm steps forward. DrO |
| New Member: vickij1 |
Posted on Saturday, Mar 8, 2008 - 10:35 am: Thanks for the response Dr. O. I did start with the articles on lameness and diagnosing lameness. That is what has lead me to think that I might be dealing with arthritis. What I dont know is whether it is from the initial injury or something else like a degenerative disease. Should I try topical treatment first like heat and wrapping the leg or go directly to the vet for soft tissue pictures?Thanks Vicki |
| Member: paul303 |
Posted on Saturday, Mar 8, 2008 - 10:52 pm: Is the horse obviously lame under saddle or while moving free? You said you rode her once, but I didn't get what lameness you felt or saw. You don't mention her being "off". Of my three QH, all drag their hind toes when walking around relaxed and all three have a favorite hind leg to cock when dozing. How often are her feet done? A little extra length in the toes could cause her to drag her feet. Are you sure she's lame? |
| Member: pbauer |
Posted on Sunday, Mar 9, 2008 - 1:20 am: Dear Vicki,While researching another topic, I found...I think... :<) a great product to help with the issue of pain associated with lameness. From the website www.soft-ride.com Soft-Ride Boots provide support, protection, and comfort for horses with needs such as -(edited) . Discomfort caused by chronic lameness, especially painful laminitis . Rehabilitation from injury, surgery, or disease . Reduction of tension on strained tendons and ligaments Best Regards, Tonya |
| Member: pbauer |
Posted on Sunday, Mar 9, 2008 - 1:27 am: ...They are therapeutic boots...Custom cushioning makes every step easier for the horse.Tonya |
| New Member: vickij1 |
Posted on Sunday, Mar 9, 2008 - 8:43 am: Thank you all for your ideas. I think I will have a pair of the custom boots made to see if that helps. As I mentioned before, I am not sure how lame is lame? She seems fine some days and others she seems very sensitive to the touch on that back leg. I cant bare the thought of her in pain. I really appreciate all the input!Thanks Again Vicki |
| Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Sunday, Mar 9, 2008 - 10:07 am: Vicki, what makes you think it is arthritis and were do you localize it to?DrO |
| New Member: vickij1 |
Posted on Sunday, Mar 9, 2008 - 10:28 am: Hi Dr. O:What has lead me to think arthritis is the inconsistancy of pain and heat. Some days she seems perfectly sound and some days she will really favor the hind leg and when I go to touch it she seems to flinch and hold it under her. |
| Member: vickij1 |
Posted on Sunday, Mar 9, 2008 - 1:26 pm: I forgot to add that the area seems to be inside and outside cannon area. |
| Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Monday, Mar 10, 2008 - 6:37 am: Flinching when touched is not consistent with osteoarthritis Vicki and the cannon area does not have joints in it to become arthritic. Looking at this from the other view: horses often flinch away from being handled for reason other than they are suffering pain. So the significance of this finding is unknown.When you way the horse favors the leg what exactly are you seeing? I know I seem to be prodding you but the subjective nature of the comments in your posts really leave me guessing at what is going on. This makes trying to give advice a very hit and miss affair. DrO |
| Member: ajudson1 |
Posted on Monday, Mar 10, 2008 - 10:18 am: Vicki,I have a gelding who seems to be doing something similar to what your mare is doing. Drives me nuts because I don't find anything wrong, no heat, no swelling, but it seems he rests his hind leg also especially after a romp around the pasture which has got about 18" of snow in it now. I am feeding AniFlex Complete and started my horses on Selenium and Vit E a few months ago. I am also with the gelding, waiting for his heels to grow out some to see if that helps. I am telling you about the AF Complete, E & Selenium because I have another mare, age 19, who I KNOW has arthritis/ringbone, and that combination of the joint supp and the E/Sel really made a difference with her. If I am thinking correctly here, adding the Joint supp will help pretty quickly if there is arthritis; and it MIGHT help with tendon/ligaments too depending on ingredients. Can you post of a picture so we can see if the heel/toe lengths are o.k.? A picture of the whole horse, side view for starters would be great. I am dabbling in doing my own trimming and also massage for horses so I am curious as to what you find because it will help me and my guy too perhaps. |
| Member: vickij1 |
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 12, 2008 - 5:52 pm: Angie:Thanks for the tip. I swear I feel like I am going crazy! Some days she is as sound as rain and other days she just seems "off". I will try the joint supplement and see if that helps. My local farm & Feed doesnt carry Aniflex but I will try the supplements and see if it helps. Dr. O is leaning towards "not" arthritis but I just dont know. Thanks Again for the help. Vicki |
| Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 12, 2008 - 7:06 pm: Vicki, I am not leaning any which a way except towards getting a firm diagnosis so that you can best care for the problem. Arthritis is certainly a possibility but only one of many.DrO |
| Member: vickij1 |
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 12, 2008 - 8:02 pm: Dr. O:I'm sorry for the misconception. In reviewing your last post I thought you feel it is inconsistant with osteoarthritis. I may be making too much of this. As I mentioned from the beginning I am not even sure if I am dealing with lameness or just her personality! I may be worrying for nothing but I guess I would rather be safe than sorry later on. I really want to start riding her in the next few months and I want to be sure she is sound enough to ride. Thanks for sticking with me on this. I really do think the only way I am going to know for sure is to have the vet come out and take pictures but without concrete symptoms am I just throwing money away? Thanks Again for your help Dr. O Vicki |
| Member: vickij1 |
Posted on Wednesday, Mar 12, 2008 - 8:55 pm: Hi Lee:I am sorry it has taken so long to respond to your post. Regarding her feet, she has been trimmed about 4 weeks ago. My farrier uses what he calls an '"Indian Pony" shape. It is flatter than I am use to and definately not long in the toe. Very even and round. When he looked at her feet he was impressed with her. Very healthy feet (according to him. The more questions I get regarding all this the more I am confused as to her soundness. I have never had trouble in the past telling a lame horse or not. I am starting to feel paranoid! I am leaning at this point towards just getting the vet out to take pictures. If they are clear, I will ride her in about 2 months and take it from there! I dont want to take up any more time from you all you have been a great help. Thanks again Vicki |
| Member: canter |
Posted on Thursday, Mar 13, 2008 - 7:10 am: Vicki,I would highly recommend getting your vet out. You are so unsure of what you are seeing, and you are clearly worried about your horse. If the vet comes up with a diagnosis, you have a place to start for making your horse better. If the horse checks out OK, then you have put your mind to rest and you can look forward to that ride. |
| Moderator: DrO |
Posted on Thursday, Mar 13, 2008 - 8:17 am: Vicki,I want you to really study the article on lameness diagnosis it gives very clear indications of lameness. Then I want you to get your horse out and have someone else carefully lunge the horse both ways at a nice controlled trot. If you have a video recorder, record the session but you must use a tripod. Then you can watch it over and over. Repeat this during times you think the horse may not be right. Do you see any uneveness of the gait at a trot? If not lameness is not likely. If you remain uncertain then you should have the vet check it out. DrO |
| Member: ajudson1 |
Posted on Thursday, Mar 13, 2008 - 4:18 pm: DrO and Vicki,My computer is acting up so I apologize if this doesn't come through correctly. Graphic driver I think it's called it not working right, have to do a complete backup and reinstall everything! Hope to have this fixed in a few days. Here is something amazing that I found and it might be a fluke but we all know that we can't leave any stone unturned with horses and their problems. I posted this on this thread or another recently about a DVD I just got called Equine Massage for Preformance Horses by Jim Masterson. After watching it through once, and then just the first massage a few more times, I did this on my guy with the mysterious "hind leg/hind quarter lameness" issues. Now, I have NO experience with massage, but I did some work for a 15 - 20 minute period, and I kid you not, he's been standing on that leg since I worked on him. Most interesting, to me anyhow, is I did NOT focus on his hindquarters! I checked the "bladder Meriden" and that was it! It starts at his poll, runs about 3" from his spine and ends at his hoof. In another book I just got, "Beating Muscle Injuries for Horses" there is a picture showing muscle connections, lines/pulleys, and I believe that something I worked on closer to his shoulder actually helped his hindquarter problem! I did do a few things besides the above mentioned, but I didn't remember what I should be doing...so it was hit and miss and I was just watching his reaction. I know, I know...by now you are wondering do I go to a vet? Chiropractor? Order this DVD some stranger had results with? Start on a joint supplement? It's hard to say. You may have to do all the above so I just hope something works and you get some answers/results. Also, are hooves level? How do the bars look? Pasture trim? Barefoot trim? Soooo many things! DrO's suggestion to video the horse moving, will tell you if the horse has on hip going higher than the other, watch the length of the stride, does she extend out fully behind, bring the leg under the same with both legs? Is the hoof landing very slighty HEEL first? O.K., that should keep you busy for awhile, grin!} |
| Member: vickij1 |
Posted on Friday, Mar 14, 2008 - 7:00 pm: Dr.O & Angie:Dr. O thank you for your suggestion regarding video taping Goldie's movements. That is such a great idea! I will look for all of the signs and re-read diagnosing lameness again. Angie thanks for all your great suggestions I am going to also look further into the concept of chiropracty and massage. I happen to have a friend who is a chiro, I might enlist her AFTER I feel I can make a diagnosis. Thanks again and I will let you know when I have a good diagnosis. Cheers Vicki |
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