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Discussion on Time to find a new farrier???
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Member:
mysi
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Posted on Monday, May 26, 2008 - 9:53 pm:
So my new farrier was out for the second time this Friday to do my horses. Patches still has those hairline cracks and I asked him if there is anything he can do to keep them from growing. They stay at about an inch at all times. He said that she may have a fungus beneath the wall where the cracks were and that would need to be controlled first. So I come back and he has two V's cut into her hooves where the cracks are. He showed them to me and stuck a nail under the hoof wall picking out fungus and said to treat it with thrush buster daily. Ok...
Then he did Sweetheart who has front shoes and is an old pro and simple to work on. She was putting a nail in and she shot in the air when he hit the nail. I have been at 95% of her shoeings over 8 years and she's never as much as flinched. I asked what happened, he said maybe he hit the hammer too hard.
so...both horses are LAME!!! Thanks to this site, I tested sweetheart and it was that nail. I have removed it myself, soaked it and put betadine in the hole. Patches on the other hand is off and I believe its the right hind. I have attached two pics, the first is the front left and the second the right hind. I don't know if shes sore or if its an abscess starting where he was sticking the nail up in there to clean up the fungus.
 
Is it normal to do this? What would you do? I am having a really hard time finding a farrier that I feel is competent. I had one and my neighbors horse tried to kill him and he won't return my calls.
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Member:
juliem
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Posted on Monday, May 26, 2008 - 11:48 pm:
Wow, I'm impressed--removing a nail is no easy deal for us amateurs! It sounds as if he quicked her and the timing is right. The other thing, and maybe it's the pictures and the lighting, but these feet look out of balance--one side looks higher than the other to me. Can you see how the hairline slopes up from left to right in the pictures? Do they really look that way?
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 8:19 am:
I don't think it is likely from using the nail for removing degenerative horn Melissa and if nothing in the article on lameness following shoeing seems right and it does not resolve quickly you may need your veterinarian to figure it out. We do have an article on first aid for undiagnosed lameness at Diseases of Horses » Lameness » First Aid for the Lame Horse.
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Member:
36541
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Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 4:05 pm:
Her toes are uneven and too long for my liking. If she does have white line, you could try a product called Sav-a-Hoof that is applied daily to the coronet band. The makers say they have evidence that it travels down the tubules to resist fungus growth. I have had good results with it when I use it consistently and keep toes at the appropriate length. You may want to start a bit of farrier home study and before you know it, you'll be slinging a rasp! Stacy
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 4:58 pm:
I second Stacy's suggestion: It's easier, healthier, and cheaper if you can learn to do your horses hoofs yourself. You can tweak on a weekly basis, and it's not time consuming that way. You make small adjustments and then watch the horses movement and soundness. Start reading all you can about barefoot on the web, and you won't be needing those shoes; thus no nail problems in the future!
Best of luck.
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New Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 5:52 pm:
Angie J has given you very good advice. Barefoot is the way to go and if you transition your horses properly their feet will be tough as nails and stay in very good condition. When you do your research, look at the HPT method that K.C. La Pierre promotes. www.equinepodiatry.net It uses indicators on the bottom of the hoof to keep the horses feet in balance. The method pays attention to external structures and how they relate to the internal structures of the bone column. Keeping the bone column in alignment keeps horses sound. A properly trimmed barefoot horse can feel his feet and use his/her feet the way they are supposed too ( by using the frog, walls and solar planes in correct and proper sequence. K.C. has quite a few articles on his website about how the foot actually operates. You can also check out Pete Ramey.
With my horses, I start with an HPT trim and use either Glue-ons or Sigafoos Series 1 Shoes (no nails). I race and train over a stone dust surface, so I can't stay barefoot due to the abrasiveness of the track, but I do keep the trim and that seems to be working very well. When I give them a significant amount of time off I pull their shoes, do the trim and they transition back to barefoot very quickly.
Rachelle
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Member:
mysi
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Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 6:12 pm:
Thanks guys. First, my pony sweetheart is the one with shoes, that I took the nail out (and Julie it wasn't easy it took FOREVER ) She is sound today and back to normal. She has been in shoes her whole life, is it worth the risk at 19 yrs old to pull them? I'd be devistated if she had issues.
Patches is the one in the pic. I will take more views of her feet to see what you think. There is no way I would ever attempt trimming myself, if a farrier can mess it up, who knows what I would do! She doesn't have white line, she just has fungus where the two cracks are, the rest of her sole is fine.
But cutting that "V" in her hoof, is that normal? Could she be sore or lame from that?
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Member:
mysi
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Posted on Tuesday, May 27, 2008 - 10:07 pm:
I couldn't get pics tonight, it was raining all night and the lighting in my barn isn't so good. I actually don't think she too long, the pics do make it look that way though. She use to be much shorter in FL riding on the sand.
Patches seems much better tonight, not off anymore, but just not quite right yet. I really wish I could find a good experienced farrier that I was comfortable with. I loved my farrier in FL.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 6:42 am:
Melissa as you have read many of our member's horses go barefoot some have problems with it. And this is my experience too, I have some horses that are always barefoot, others that need shoeing when on gravelly surfaces and yet others that require shoeing almost no matter what the surface. If you make that choice do it under the advisement of a good farrier and/or veterinary recommendation.
The V is not a cause of lameness.
DrO
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 9:26 am:
Melissa, my farrier cut a similar V out of the front of my horse's hoof in the past in order to clean out an infection. I kept the cavity well picked out and applied copper sulphate at first, and later on betadine.
There was no lameness, and the hoof grew back fine.
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Member:
gailkin
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Posted on Friday, May 30, 2008 - 3:46 pm:
I would try to learn about trimming the horse myself Melissa. To cure the fungus you are going to have to use something other than a topical like Thrushbuster. That will not get to the deep fungus that causes frog disintegration and wall/sole separation. Many barefoot trimmers were using White Lightning soaks to kill the fungus, but it is somewhat complicated and a hassle. A better solution that most of the barefoot trimmers I know are using is a product called oxineAH sold by www.revivalanimal.com or amazon and when diluted at 500 ppm with water and activated by citric acid can be used as a soaking solution in soaking boots like Davis boots. You can use this soak several times a week for 20 minutes and the results are amazing. One of my horses had frog issues for years that the Thrushbuster, etc. did not help at all. Soreness in the frog or sulcus will cause all sorts of problems. Now that I have treated the fungus for two months, his frog is growing in well and the deep sulcus has filled in so the frog can help support the hoof.
I can give you more details on the exact mixing procedure, etc. if you are interested. Basically you use 1/2 cup oxineAH to one gallon water. Then activate with 2 teas. citric acid. You can mix the solution and just activate a small amount when you need to soak the feet. The solution is light sensitive. Most horses I see have fungus issues in their hooves that do not resolve. I won't go into all the details of the problem fungus causes, but most horses have it. The soaking is the only effective way that I know of to cure the fungus to enable your horse to have a healthy hoof.
You can join the barefoothorsecare@yahoo.groups.com chat group and find out a lot more information about oxine and fungus and you can ask questions about barefoot trimming if you are trying to trim you own horses' feet.
Good luck with fixing those feet.
Gail
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Member:
sunny66
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Posted on Friday, May 30, 2008 - 10:56 pm:
Melissa, while barefoot (and the help of Dr. O and members of this board) helped bring my boy back from retirement, it's not for him when the ground is hard... not yet anyway, so I just wanted to echo Dr O's comments. My suggestion is to call your vet and ask him/her for farrier recommendations. While farriers do make mistakes, I don't think it's "normal" to have two mistakes on the same day... just my two cents 
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 1, 2008 - 3:42 pm:
Just to throw this out there, not disagreeing with anyones advice but learning to trim doing a "barefoot" trim doesn't mean going barefoot 100%of the time. Boots are another option.
The more knowledge one has, and if one can tweak hoofs on a weekly basis, just doing the mustang roll, I think you will see good results getting rid of the crack.
It's tough to depend on farriers if there are not many available to choose from and you have to be on their schedule. Perhaps you could try what I did: I offered to pay one extra for his advice and to show me hands on what to do. It worked because he's retired and didn't want the work on a regular basis, and I got his help.
Then someone on a Yahoo group offered to help me and we've been exchanging pictures. She's been an angel in helping me with those pesky little things I wasn't getting 100%.
Last of all; I think it was on Pete Ramey's site he gives a formula for thrush/fungus. It seems it was only 2 ingredients, like an antibactirial ointment and something else. Things we have in our medicine cabinet already, and very inexpensive.
Anyone remember seeing that or know what it is?
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Member:
leilani
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 1, 2008 - 9:31 pm:
Angie,
Here is the information:
For years I've searched for the perfect thrush medicine. Most products that kill the fungi and bacteria also kill living tissue; contributing to the problem. I use a 50/50 mix of Triple Antibiotic Ointment and Athletes Foot Cream (1% Clotrimazole) (for humans; over the counter at any pharmacy). I mix it thoroughly and put it in a 60cc catheter-tip syringe (available from any vet) (The syringe may well be more important than the cream, as it allows deep penetration to the core of the problem). Mix the products in a Tupperware bowl, then spoon in or 'top load' 15cc with a butter knife. I have my horse owners treat deep into central cleft daily until no cleft is present. No need to squirt it all over the frog; just a pea-sized dab at the very bottom of the central sulcus. To date, I've seen it eliminate deep, sensitive central frog clefts in 100% of cases within 2 months. (A first, with every treatment I've ever used, though past experience tells me we'll never find a product that works on every case in every environment.)
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Monday, Jun 2, 2008 - 7:47 am:
Leilani,
Thank you for the info! That's it, I knew it was simple! This time I am printing it out and filing it under "HA STUFF" that I may need to refer to again. It's been a wet spring and I am watching everyone's feet; hoping nothing serious developes before things dry up.
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Member:
gailkin
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 8, 2008 - 6:46 pm:
Angie,
I used several batches of Pete's goop in my horses' sulcuses and found it did not work for me at all. That's when I discovered the soaks in oxine activated with citric acid and the results are truly amazing. One of my horse's sulcuses was so bad that I could put two cotton balls in one of them. Now he has a firm, normal sulcus and the whole frog is wider and in better shape. I have given the soaking stuff to several of my friends who did not think their horses had any issues with fungus and so far every one of them has had major positive changes with the soaking.
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Member:
cgby1
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Posted on Monday, Jun 9, 2008 - 3:59 pm:
Hi Melissa,
You said that you were worried about removing the shoes from your 19 year old pony Sweetheart, my old mare also named Sweetheart was in her 20's when I removed her shoes permanently. She had started acting sore in her front ankles and I thought it was arthritis. I decided the extra weight of the shoes didn't help so I had them pulled. She stopped acting sore and for the rest of her life had no problem with her front legs. The last couple years her hocks started going and we put her down last year at the age of 33. I recommend using boots during transition and Easycare sells a large variety at a good price, so you can find the size that fits. All my horses are barefoot and they all do great.
Cynthia
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