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Discussion on Raising a surviving twin
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Wednesday, May 28, 2008 - 9:26 am:
Good morning everyone. I wasn't sure if this should go under this heading or under the "Pregnancy, Foaling and neonatal care" heading. If it is more appropriate for the other heading I can repost. I'm sure Dr. O will set me straight if needed!
I mentioned in a previous post a friend of mine that has had a very rough foaling year. Of six horses he bred last year two did not settle, one had to be put down 45 days prior to her due date and one presented with a breach foal which died before they could get it out. The fifth had a healthy filly about a week ago and the sixth had twins this morning.
The smaller of the twins died shortly after birth and the larger is still hanging in there. I understand that the remaining twin's odds aren't the greatest but they are going to give it their best shot at saving her. They are able to easily milk the mare and have gotten several syringe fulls of colostrum into her. She has been able to stand and (with help) nurse on her own once. She's been able to stand with help a couple of other times.
Now, for my questions. I read the article about orphaned foals and it talks mainly about hand feeding frozen colostrum and milk replacer. Would the amounts and frequency of feeding fresh colostrum/milk be the same? They don't want to over or under do it. I would assume (I know I shouldn't do that) that helping her stand if she cannot would be good physical therapy to start strengthening her muscles. If this is the case, how often should this be done?
Thanks for any help. I'm just sick over the bad luck they've had this year so would like to be able to offer help even if I can't physically be there.
Sara
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2008 - 6:45 am:
What a horrible year for your friends Sara!
We had [twice] living twins one time both lived and after the initial helping with drinking they got fast strong enough to handle everything on their own so they nursed when they wanted.
The second only one survived same story after a day or three he did everything on his own until that moment milk according to orphaned foal quantities was given [but remember to take the weight of the foal in account].Alas he died of an accident a few months later, but the first pair of twins[born at a friends place out of a mare sold to them] were both mares that bred normally into their twenties and though a little on the small side themselves they bred 'normal according to their pedigree.
Hope this helps and keep my fingers crossed
Jos
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2008 - 7:17 am:
Thanks, Jos! The encouragement and positive experience is definitely helpful. Kristi sent me a picture of the little gal on my cell phone but I can't seem to get it transfered to the PC so I guess I'll just have to stop over and take some pictures myself. 
The filly made it through the day yesterday and was able to get up on her own. She was still very wobbly and would fall over with the slightest bump from mom but at least she was getting up. She was still having trouble holding her head up on her own and finding the "milk bar" by herself but she was able to nurse if they held her head in the right place. She was also sucking the plunger right down in a syringe! I have high hopes. I know she's in good hands and if there's any chance she'll make it Kristi will definitely be the one to make sure that happens.
Thanks again and I'll try to post a picture if I make it over this evening.
Sara
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Member:
kstud
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Posted on Thursday, May 29, 2008 - 7:42 pm:
Hi Sara,
Gosh that has been a really rough foaling season for your friend. To give the foal the best chance of survival it needs roughly 4 pints a day of milk for the first 5 days and if being fed by hand then split that amount over 8 feeds ie little and often. To reduce the risk of aspiration pneumonia I find it preferable to tape / stitch a naso gastric tube in place and milk the mare and feed the foal through that. This way you are sure that the foal is getting enough and letting it gain strength in its own time. I also worry about accidental damage to the mouth when using a syringe. I have seen weak foals put a lot of stress on joints by trying to stand and feed from the mare. By using the tube the foal will suck the mare when it is strong enough to do so and even 24 hrs can make a huge difference to a foal. If the foal is weak and has to be fed for more than a few days then it is worth giving it a Vit E and selenium shot and putting it on multi vitamin oral DrOps, we use Abidec. I also put these foals on Gastroguard as irregular or assisted feeds can lead very quickly to ulcers.
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Friday, May 30, 2008 - 1:10 am:
Wow, Catherine...thank you! That's great information and I will pass it on first thing in the morning.
I went to visit this evening and meet the little guy. Kristi took for granted that what her father told her was true and the foal was a filly until she got concerned that she'd never witnessed "her" urinating and went to investigate. She was quite surprised to find out she'd been watching the wrong part of the anatomy for the urine!  I told her they should name him something tough since he'd probably developed a complex from being called Sweetpea for two days.
Anyway, the little guy is still extremely weak but has a huge heart. He's able to get up on his own but not quite able to nurse. Although it probably doesn't look like it from the pictures Kristi tells me he's filled out quite a bit since yesterday morning. I'm sure it's going to be an uphill battle but Kristi will not give up.
Thanks again for the advice...both of you. I know it will be greatly appreciated.
 
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Friday, May 30, 2008 - 5:13 am:
Oh he looks lovely! isn't it a shame the other one is dead? imagine the pair of them next to mommy.
Will keep sending positive thoughts and with all the advise Catherine gave I am confident he will be fine!
Jos
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Friday, May 30, 2008 - 9:06 am:
He is pretty cute, huh?
Catherine, I have a question for you if you're still following this thread. When I do a search for Abidec I can only find the human kind. Is there something special for horses that you get? If not, how much do you give?
When I spoke with Kristi this morning she was out looking for a bottle and a blanket. It's still getting pretty cold at night and even with a heat lamp the little guy is getting pretty cold and she's afraid he using everything he's being fed to keep warm. The other challenge with this situation, besides the obvious ones, is Kristi's father. Technically, it's his horse and he's one of these old cowboy/farmer types that's always done something a certain way and doesn't want to change. "I've been doing this for 50 years...you don't think I know what I'm doing?" I cannot speak bad of him as he's always been kind to me but it's frustrating that he's so stubborn and ignorant. Anyway, he refused to allow the vitamin shot (I don't do that with my horses!) but Kristi thinks oral vitamins will be easy enough to give even without him knowing. And fortunately he doesn't know how to plug in a computer so I'll never give her away with this post. He did, however, allow Kristi to get a bottle to use to feed which is a step in the right direction.
So, Jos, positive thoughts are definitely the key here and hope that both the foal AND Kristi survive this initial time!
Thanks again.
Sara
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Friday, May 30, 2008 - 9:19 am:
Cute cute cute! Here's hoping for a thriving little sweetpea!
Erika
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Friday, May 30, 2008 - 9:38 am:
I remember Dr. O saying something about a human sweater on the newborns.. I am sure you figure out how to get one on to stay..
Very cute... I hope all goes well..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Friday, May 30, 2008 - 10:37 pm:
I just wanted to thank everyone for their positive thoughts and support. Kristi ended up getting a sweatshirt for Sweatpea this morning and a bottle. So, for the third and final day of his life he was warm and comfortable. Sweatpea's condition deteriorated throughout the day and even after a visit from the vet this morning for fluids and vitamins he did not improve. The decision was made this evening to let him go.
Thank you again to everyone. This board is filled with wonderful, caring people.
~Sara
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Member:
hpyhaulr
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Posted on Friday, May 30, 2008 - 11:17 pm:
Oh Sara, how sad and disappointing. Hugs to Kristi. She must be devastated after such a heroic effort. All are in our prayers. For such a little guy with an all too brief history, he had a large impact on many here. Poor mama to lose both her babies.
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Saturday, May 31, 2008 - 3:46 am:
Oh what a disappointing end! The foal is no longer in pain but your friend[and all the mares ] must feel horrible.I really feel for them.
Jos
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Saturday, May 31, 2008 - 10:16 am:
I'm very sorry, Sara. Sounds like Kristi did everything possible to save the little guy. Sometimes the best efforts just don't work out. Please tell Kristi that a lot of people are thinking of her today....
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Member:
frances
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Posted on Saturday, May 31, 2008 - 3:54 pm:
The poor little thing - that's so sad. My condolences.
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Member:
kstud
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Posted on Saturday, May 31, 2008 - 4:32 pm:
Hi Sara, I am so sorry to hear that, unfortunately I have been really busy here with 2 very sick foals and have not had time to get to the computer, but in case it helps anyone else, Yes the Abidec is the human DrOps and I give 2 pipettes full in the mouth daily, they love it.
Secondly I should have elaborated that I meant a minimum of 4 pints of milk daily for the first 5 days to supplement whatever the foal might be sucking and certainly no more than 4 pints of milk replacer as that can cause diarrhoea. I would try to ensure the foal gets another 3 to 4 litres either from sucking or hand milking the mare or through a drip. Either way though with a very small foal like that 4 or 5 litres is more than sufficient for the first few days.
A heat lamp is very dehydrating for foals and unless they are on a drip as well I use a foal coat or even a big dog coat if you know someone that has one.
The vit E / sel. injection is not vital.
If it helps Sara, the foal appeared to have a very domed skull and a look of prematurity about him. These foals are very difficult to save as their lungs generally are not developed enough to survive more than a few days outside the womb.
Catherine
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Member:
erika
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Posted on Saturday, May 31, 2008 - 9:17 pm:
Well isn't that a sad outcome. My condolences to all who cared for the little foal; and hope for the mare to get through this, too.
Bless you for trying to help, Sara.
Erika
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Member:
sdms
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 1, 2008 - 8:31 am:
Again, thanks everyone for your kind and helpful words. I've read this entire thread to Kristi and she wanted me to make sure everyone knows how much she also appreciates you.
Catherine, thank you too for the additional information. Even though it won't be needed in this situation you never know when it might be needed in the future. The foal did have a very domed skull and we knew the odds were not good. It's always sad, though, to lose an animal no matter how prepared we are. My best wishes for a good outcome with your two foals.
I believe the mare knew, too, that something was very wrong. The eventual loss wasn't as hard on her as we would have thought. Small blessings.
Thank you all again.
Sara
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 1, 2008 - 3:31 pm:
Sara,
Hugs to you for helping out and for Kristi who tried so hard to help the little guy make it.
We raised an orphan many years ago and he was fine so I thought this one would be o.k. too. I guess the difference was he was a twin and just wasn't strong enough. Poor little thing. Glad mom is o.k. anyhow.
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