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Discussion on Is it a muscle or nerve disease?
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New Member:
alraji
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 8, 2008 - 4:05 am:
Good morning all;
Nice is to join you in this site.
I have Arabian race horse (not gelding) that he performed excellent for this year with a good record. He is 11 years old. Also, he has ideal conformation (with big muscle as sprint horse)
Four months ago, I decide to change his training and involve him gradually in endurance especially I found he has very good hart performance where his resting rate of pulse is in no time.
I started include more walk and trot in his training in daily basis, then, canter with changing between the two front legs. He was trained for long distance that increased gradually after checking him in daily basis. He showed excellent and positive response.
After that and one month ago, I ride him for long trip (it is about continuous 4 hours) mainly walk and trot with short canter, after this long ride I checked him with and he showed very active with no lameness and willingness to continue.
Next day, I checked him again and he showed slight lame in the front left leg. I checked and tested all parts (shoulder, knee, tendon, suspensory, joints, hoof) of his front leg with no any indication of problem no pain, heat or swelling
I tried with him every thing in steps,
I gave him rest……..but he showed worse and the lame change from left to the right one!
Then I decide to give hem free walk to minimize getting him worst and I gave him bute (Arthersidene for ten days) with no any improvement.
Now, he resists raising his front leg while checking his shoulder (where he did not show that before at the beginning of his problem) and still there is pain, heat or swelling in any parts of his leg.
I do not know what is the next step should I do? still i could not understand what is the problem and how can i treat it?
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 8, 2008 - 8:17 am:
Welcome Abdallah,
I presume the line toward the end was supposed to read: "NO pain, heat, or swelling in any parts of the leg". I don't find the shift in the leg or the shoulder of much significance.
Without any indication of where the pain is coming from we cannot even begin to guess what the problem is or how to treat it. However there are techniques for diagnosing difficult to localize lameness and you will find them described at, Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Localizing Lameness in the Horse.
DrO
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Member:
corinne
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 8, 2008 - 10:52 am:
Abdallah you have a beautiful horse. (I own an Arabian that I use for Dressage and am excited to see a member from SA where Arabians are so revered). I hope you find the cause for the lameness. Has a local vet been out to assess him? I hope you can determine the cause for his lameness and he can get back to his new career shortly. Good Luck and once again welcome.
Corinne
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 8, 2008 - 11:12 am:
Beautiful horse! And in very good condition by the looks of the picture too.[I own a Polish Arabian that should have done endurance had there been a suitable rider over here in my part of France ]
I would love to know how you will proceed with your horse and what is the outcome.
Please keep us posted?
Jos
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 8, 2008 - 2:56 pm:
Good luck tracking down this pain. I have a 17-year old Arab that has shown some similar symptoms in the front, and the problem was that his heels were growing in an unbalanced way (outer heel growing faster than the inside one on the left front), which was due to him carrying himself in such a way as to compensate for the pain of a saddle fit problem that developed due to changes in the fit as he DrOpped weight from much work. My farrier had to take the longer growing heel down more frequently as I worked on the saddle problem. These horses have so much heart and athleticism that it can be hard to trace down the source of a problem. Pain in the front end might even be caused by something going on in the rear end, like hocks -- but be sure to check the balance of the feet, not just by looking but by laying the rasp across.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 8, 2008 - 6:17 pm:
Very perplexing where the lameness seems to have shifted from one side to the other. Do you have good diagnostic vets where you live? Or, are you out in the country far enough that you are left pretty much on your own? I hope the articles here on lameness are of some help to you.
We once had a mare who appeared off in her right front shoulder, but the problem turned out to be in her left foot. She was carrying herself funny, off balance and with too much weight on the right to protect the left foot and her muscles became sore in her right shoulder.She never did really look like she was limping, just slightly "off." I wonder if something like that could be going on with your horse?
I will be following your posts with interest. I've learned a lot from other people's problems.
I agree your horse is lovely with beautiful conformation. If you have the time, I'd love to know your horse's bloodlines. We raise Egyptian Arabians so I find pedigrees interesting. I wish you luck with your guy!
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Member:
vickiann
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Posted on Sunday, Jun 8, 2008 - 9:41 pm:
My experience began similarly to what Sarah says. Everyone who watched said my boy was favoring the right front, and that is what it felt like, but later, after a ride, he was reluctant to pick that foot up. The real pain was in the left front (due to the heels being un-level), but caused by other issues far away due to the horse compensating in his way of going.
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New Member:
alraji
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Posted on Monday, Jun 9, 2008 - 6:07 am:
Thanks all for your comments
And here is the beauty of horses that can introduce you and build relation with other that they have similar concerns
Any how, now the horse find difficult to walk (pain- he DrOps his head with each step)
When I said there is no pain I mean in the main parts while he is standing and by testing each part separately with pressing around - except when I raise any of his front leg.
I mean here is it something related to nervous system or shoulder muscle problems that could happen in the next day.
Regarding your inquiry about the bloodline, my horse is Arabian horse (French / Polish bloodlines); and here the pedigree of his sir and dam:
https://www.allbreedpedigree.com/volcano+de+carrere
https://www.allbreedpedigree.com/brusally+gazella
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Jun 9, 2008 - 6:45 am:
I don't see any evidence of neurological disease Abdallah. When the front leg is raised all the joints and many other soft tissue parts are engaged, so it does not localize the lameness itself. It is possible by careful lifting to minimally engage the more proximal joints while stressing the coffin through ankle, knee, elbow and shoulder but the results of such stress tests are not perfectly reliable, again the article on Diagnosis of Lameness outlines the best course.
DrO
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New Member:
alraji
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Posted on Monday, Jun 9, 2008 - 7:37 am:
As I mentioned before after keeping him in his paddock for a full rest, it seems for me the problem in the shoulders where he resists raising any of his front legs even gradually and slowly (he accept bending the fetlock and knee with no any indication of pain)
I was directed before to give him a rest, but, the problem here his situation is getting worse with resting.
What can I do?
What kind of treatment I can try?
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Jun 9, 2008 - 8:21 am:
Hi Abdallah, have you hoof tested your horse? Though when on bute not real reliable. It seems possible he could have a hoof bruise or abscess, which quite often resembles shoulder lameness and worsens with time as you describe your horse is doing, until resolved.
Dr. O. has an article in here about them and might be worth reading. My horse just had one and your description of your horse resembles how he was.
Hope you can get this resolved, beautiful horse.
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New Member:
alraji
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Posted on Monday, Jun 9, 2008 - 8:46 am:
I have checked and tested all his hoofs. They are very clear bright and no pain with tester.
There is no problem with it.
I did not tried bute as powder, only injection as medicine (dexaphnite and arthersidene)
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Member:
ajudson1
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Posted on Monday, Jun 9, 2008 - 10:01 am:
Very nice horse.
Is it possible his withers are sore from poor saddle fit?
If you go down his neck at the roots of the mane, and just give some squeezes as you go along, does he react to any pain there? I know we always think hooves, legs for lameness, but a sore neck can sure cause a horse to act funny too. My arab has scared me that way a few times and I massage her neck and shoulders and she gets better.
Best of luck, keep us posted what you find out and how he's doing.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Jun 9, 2008 - 8:21 pm:
Abdallah, the next thing you need to do is get a good diagnosis. There is no information in your post to indicate what the problem is so it is impossible to give accurate information on treatment. Even your subjective impression that it may be in the shoulder does not tell us what is wrong with the shoulder and therefore what is the proper treatment. You have to understand my perspective: for ever 100 times I go out to see a horse with a "shoulder lameness" 90 times it turns up in the foot and most of the rest somewhere else than the shoulder. Except for kicks landed on the shoulder which usually leave lots of signs, shoulder lameness is quite rare in the adult.
We do have an article on taking care of undiagnosed lameness but you can do a better job with a diagnosis. For more on first aid of the undiagnosed lame horse see, Diseases of Horses » Lameness » First Aid for the Lame Horse.
DrO
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Tuesday, Jun 10, 2008 - 1:05 pm:
Thank you for posting the pedigree. It's very interesting as there are so many names we don't often see here in the states. When you follow them back further than the 5 generations though, they go back to some wonderful old bloodlines, many of them tracing back to the EAO and Abas Pasha's breeding program.
I wish I could be of help with his lameness problem. It is often difficult to diagnose lameness when the horse is right in front of you, let alone trying from over the internet. Is there a clinic you could take him to that has ultra-sound equipment? Often that makes it a lot easier to pin-point the cause of lamenss. It's expensive, but worth it in a difficult case, in my opinion.
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