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HorseAdvice.com » Diseases of Horses » Cardiovascular, Blood, and Immune System » Equine Granulocytic Ehrlichiosis »
  Discussion on Erlichia and laminitis
Author Message
Member:
silv

Posted on Saturday, Jun 14, 2008 - 4:14 pm:

Hi Dr. O,

My 27 year old gelding developed a large swelling near his sheath that appeared to become infected. I thought he got stung. It took almost two weeks to heal. Then several days ago he was acting colicky. I took his temp and it was 104. I called the vet and she came out and felt it was erlichia. She said the bite was from a tick. We drew blood but the test came back neg. We put him on banamine and doxy as she still believes it is erlichia. His temp came and went for two days. My concern is that he has been acting lamanitic during this process too. We thought it was because of the high temp but he did it again today with no temp (day 2 doxy) He will go from being totally fine to acting very lethargic close his eyes like he has a severe headache and he lied down yesterday and did not want to get up. He gets heat in his feet with pulses. I have been icing them when this happens. Will this pass in the coming days of doxy treatment? Is this common with erlichia? He also seems to be getting ulcers from the bute before and now banamine. We are going to put him on rinitidine. Could he be lamanitic from the ulcers?

Thanks,

Marcy
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Monday, Jun 16, 2008 - 7:11 am:

Hello Marcy,
The symptoms you describe are not clearly laminitis and gastrointestinal ulcers are not considered a cause of laminitis and may be the depression that occurs with systemic infection. For more on what you see with laminitis see, Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Diseases of the Hoof » Founder & Laminitis. If the problem is Ehrlicia the chances your horse will recover are very good but as the diagnosis is still in question do to the negative blood finding I would keep a close watch for other possibilities while you treat the one your vet finds most likley.
DrO
Member:
silv

Posted on Monday, Jun 16, 2008 - 9:10 pm:

Hi Dr. O,

He seems to be doing better on doxy and I think the ulcer meds are helping alot. He is alot less lethargic and his appetite has picked up. He has also stopped yawning constantly. His temp is normal for the past two days and his feet were cool. Tonight when I came home he had some heat in his feet and the vet was here to take xrays she said she felt slight pulses in left front. Xrays came out good, no rotation however he is still a bit foot sore walking especially on pavement. The more you walk him the unhappier he seems. We drew blood for a cushings test. It is still unclear to me how long to expect him to be foot sore after possible laminitis? I have also heard they can be very lame from the erlichiosis. We are out day 5 now. Is this normal and should I be concerned? I am still icing his feet 2x daily. He is off all bute and banamine because or ulcers.

Thankyou,

Marcy
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 17, 2008 - 7:32 am:

The soreness of laminitis is variable but if that is the correct diagnosis, while lame you should suspect ongoing laminitis.
DrO
Member:
silv

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 18, 2008 - 1:33 pm:

Hi Dr. O,

He is doing much better! I had to switch back from rinitidine to ulcergard as it was not working nearly as well. He feels so much better. Three questions: is there any contra-indications about giving ulcergard and doxy at the same time? I know you should not mix antacids and doxy. I just dont want to lessen the effect of the doxy. Also about how long to they experience joint pain from the erlichia once they have started treatment? We are doing 40 100 mg tabs 2x daily for almost 1 month. We are at day 6. He is still knuckling behind at the fetlock. He looks double jointed. He is very straight behind in conformation and would do this occasionally or during the cold however, he has been doing it so much more since he got sick. One vet told me they want to get off there heels with lymes. Do you feel an old horse might benefit from any IV treatment if the joint pain does not go away during treatment?

Thanks,

Marcy
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Jun 18, 2008 - 11:16 pm:

Marcy, taking your questions in order:
1) unknown as this has not been studied that I am aware of.
2) I don't understand the question.
3) IV treatment of what disease with what medication Marcy?
DrO
Member:
erika

Posted on Thursday, Jun 19, 2008 - 9:47 am:

Marcy, my mare was diagnosed and treated for Lyme's, and being retreated now for relapse. My vet had us give her banamine for the first several days of antibiotic treatment. She was of the opinion that the die-off could cause some laminitis.
In humans, there is something called the Herxheimer Reaction. It is a worsening of symptoms after a period of treatment caused by the body's reaction to bacteria dying. I don't know if it happens in horses, but maybe that's causing your horse to be sore again?
Also don't know if you would have these similarities with Erlichiosis. But throwing it out there to discuss the possiblity...
Hope your horse recovers.
Erika
Member:
silv

Posted on Friday, Jun 20, 2008 - 11:07 am:

Hi Erika,

I was just reading about that in some lymes discussions. He had some heat and pulses again last night but after icing he seemed much better today. Its weird as it comes and goes. My vet is very puzzled. We pulled his shoes and he actully seemed more comfortable. Unfortunately I cant give anymore banamine because of the ulcers so I have to rely on the icing to take down any inflamation. How long did you originally treat your mare for? IV? How long did she relapse after you stopped treatment? We are doing three weeks of doxy P.O. He seems to be responding not as depressed but his joints still are sore and stiff especially his pasterns behind. We are at day 7 today of treatment. I am hoping this will clear up over the next 2 weeks.

Hope your mare gets better soon too!

Marcy
Member:
silv

Posted on Friday, Jun 20, 2008 - 11:14 am:

Hi Dr.O,

Sorry for any confusion.
I was wondering how long it takes for the joint pain to go away once they have started doxy treatment. We are at day 7 treatment and while he seems better he still is knuckling behind in the pastern as if they hurt. I am hoping that during the course of the treatment this will resolve. I.V. was for Doxy treatment if the joint pain does not resolve with 3 weeks P.O.

Thanks,

Marcy
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Saturday, Jun 21, 2008 - 6:22 am:

Ehrlichia is usually very responsive with most symptoms respond within 48 hours of beginning treatment.
DrO
Member:
silv

Posted on Monday, Jun 23, 2008 - 11:16 am:

Hi Dr. O,

Once a horse has had an exposure and been treated for erlichia, can they get it back again right away if they get bit by another infected tick soon after coming off of Doxy? I have heard mixed answers pertaining to this question. One vet said they have a 2 year window where they are protected. Another vet said they could get it again right away. I am very worried about him being exposed again.

Thanks,

Marcy
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Jun 24, 2008 - 8:29 am:

This is a an unstudied question but I believe some immunity would develop, despite treatment, and would persist for some time following exposure.
DrO
New Member:
lyons

Posted on Sunday, Oct 26, 2008 - 5:05 pm:

Dr.O,
My 20 y.o. mare was diagnosed with lymes disease 4wks ago Elisa test 490 & western blot test consistant with an antibody response to borrelia.She is 15.3h; 1100lbs her attitude and appitite are normal to present.The vet prescribed doxycycline 16 100mg.2x/day 2grams phenlybut. 2x/day for 4weeks(I gave 1bute 2x/day after 2 wks when she was feeling better).Regal experienced the Herxhiemer reaction after first dose of doxy. My vet said she was foundering but after alot of research I learned what happened. Vet took blood panel which showed increased RBC & Liverenzymes,WBC norml.Vet said he didnt know why.I also learned how elusive this bacteria can be so talked to my vet about keeping her on doxy 1 more mo. and he agreed.2days ago after 3wks 5days on meds Regals temp went up to 100.1 from 99, HR 79 bpm from 50bpm, Resp Rate 35 permin from 20 permin. started walking on eggshells again.The vet said she has sore feet and that I just have to wait it out. My concerns are for her increased vital signs this has to be damaging to the organs.Can a horse experience Herx more than once? Is there any other test I can have drawn to send to cornell for some answers. It's very frustrating and difficult just to wait it out and see my best friend in so much pain.
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