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Discussion on Hoof issues with 6 week old foal
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Member:
kshayden
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 8, 2008 - 10:54 am:
Hi,
Rocket was born on May 25th with severe contracted tendons and at 2 days old carpus vulgas in the left leg. Perianal stripping surgery at 2 weeks old. Baby has had chronic sores on fronts of legs - vet says they are bandage sores.
Rocket wasn't putting weight on left leg - found abscess - vet found small rock in hoof. Packed and bandaged. Took bandage off after 4 days - hoof now black, huge holes in bottom and the smell of rotten flesh overwhelming.
Shoer was out and recommended we leave the bandages off to dry out the thrush. Now, right foot has soft sole at toe.
My ground is very dry and hard, sandy/rocky clay type soil.
What is the best thing to do? Vet says wrap and shoer says no wrap. Baby walking on tip toes.
I might be able to board mom and baby on irrigated grass. Would the soft ground be better for him? Do I need to worry about founder in either if they go from grass hay and alfalfa to green grass?
Begging for advise. Thanks, Kathy
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 8, 2008 - 5:36 pm:
Poor Rocket sure has a rough start.
Is it thrush that smells so bad or does he have an infection? Thrush and "rotting flesh smell" are different odors IMO. Are the "huge holes" in his sole? I would have vet back out to have another look to distinguish what the poor guy has going on for sure. In the mean time can you lock him in a softly bedded stall? Until the vet comes I think I would bandage his hoof and change at least morning and night to keep dry, maybe some betadine ...mild and good for thrush and abscesses/infection.
Hope Dr.O. can help you out, but it is hard to tell exactly what you are dealing with. Can you post a picture? Good Luck with Rocket
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Member:
kshayden
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 8, 2008 - 6:30 pm:
Thank you Diane,
Yes, Rocket is a trooper - and has truly had to deal with a lot. Most think I should cut my losses - but I have to do everything I can for this little guy first.
I have never smelled thrush like what I smelled yesterday - like I mentioned - his hoof has a black ring that is so black - looks like someone burnt him.
The smell is that of a dead animal that has been in the sun for a couple of days - not what I would consider thrush. He has been on antibiotics for almost his entire life - except for about 5 days.
Tetracycline, doxycycline and now something else. - can't remember - he is getting 4 huge pills 2 times a day - big, white oval with split in middle - crushes to powder.
I guess I can bring him back into the stall, but that just wasn't very good for either of them. Mom has perked up considerably since I let them out of the barn - they now have about 2 acres and the whole side of the barn.
We are putting betadine on his foot 2x a day.
His foot looks really bad - but since now the other foot is getting soft - I am trying to find out what could be happening to him and why. The vet comes out again on Friday - When the wrap went on his hoof last Thursday - his foot looked great - just had the small abscess - then vet dug out, stuffed with medication and gauze, packed with the black tar and wrapped him up - so I don't think the wrapping is helping him at all. It doesn't help that it is very warm here either - at 4 AM today, it was 94 degrees at the house - with tons of smoke - very hot dry air with the smoke really makes the environment uncomfortable and then to add the wrap. Remember, he has major bandage sores from the splints that are 6 weeks old and still not healed. Just when he gets the scabs on - he bumps or scraps getting up and re-opens them - we are putting a host of medications on him - some to keep the proud flesh under control and dry, some for the flies and some with steroids/anti-inflammatory etc. Got a whole medicine cabinet full.
I will try to get some photos up later this week.
I hope someone has suggestions though - perhaps a drug that might speed his healing?
Thanks so much. Kathy
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 8, 2008 - 6:53 pm:
What a mess Keep at it hopefully you can pull him through. Couldn't you put some kind of boot on his bandage sores? like a soft fleece lined shipping boot. I had a mare once that had terrible sores on her cannons, the shipping boots worked great, with the fleece it didn't irritate them and finally they healed.
When Hank had an abscess I had his hoof wrapped also, once I got lazy and decided to leave it on until it fell off and it had the dead animal smell when it did YUCK. Exposure to air was the only thing that got rid of it. Rockets hooves are probably mushy and soft from being wrapped that long. Kind of a catch 22 isn't it? I doubt if there is a drug that will help it.
When I wrapped Hanks I left it on 12 hrs. with the meds and off 12hrs to dry out. The dead animal smell went away with that.
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 8, 2008 - 7:08 pm:
kathy, are you Northern CA.. ? I am E. of Sacramento.. you mention heat and smoke..
If you are near by maybe I could come over to help you out.. or give you a few referrals ... This sounds terrible , poor little one..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Member:
kshayden
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 8, 2008 - 7:36 pm:
That would be fantastic.
Yes, I live by Red Bluff, CA - I would be so thankful for any assistance. Have you had experience with this? Just even someone on this list that could see what I see and explain it better. Thanks, Kathy
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Member:
dres
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Posted on Tuesday, Jul 8, 2008 - 8:04 pm:
Opps not that close about a 3 hour drive from here.. I am not familiar with the area as far as vets either..  Was hoping that you were closer , we are experiencing the horrid heat and smoke as well.. Maybe someone reading this knows the area better or clinics etc..
On the first day God created horses, on the second day he painted them with spots..
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 9, 2008 - 7:23 am:
Hello Kathy,
There are better days ahead but for the meantime it sounds like you have your hands full.
I would recommend very soft but dry bedding for this foal at this time. As to bandaging a hoof, if I start to see horn changes do to excessive moisture, I let the hoof dry out. This is a very common complication of bandaging a hoof. However hoof horn normally turns "whitish" with excessive moisture and your description of turning black, other than thrushy areas, does not ring any bells with me. On decubital sores I prefer to use nitrofurazone aerosol spray as it is drying, antimicrobial, does not promote proud flesh, and flies don't like it. By drying out the areas it makes for a tougher scab less prone to reinjury.
It is very hard to make direct recommendations without actually examining the foal but if you continue to be uncertain about the recommendations, consider a second opinion.
DrO
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Member:
kshayden
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 9, 2008 - 9:00 am:
Thank you DrO 
Any recommendations on soft footing that will stay dry? I use fly preditors - but in a stall, with bedding and the heat - it just seems like one good thing - brings other bad things. The flies must be coming from all over to chew on Rocket and has been a real battle as well.
One of the med's is the furazone spray but it startles the little guy and we have to be pretty darn forceful to get it on all his sores. We end up spraying ourselves more than him  and it takes 2 people - which isn't always an option.
His hoof is very white around the coronary band - I just didn't mention this as I *thought* it was because there was no light, moist and clean. The horseshoer was pretty worried about his feet - he is young, but did actually go to a prestigious farrier school. The vet told us to leave the bandage on until Friday - but we had scheduled the shoer - to look at Rocket's angles and put toe extenders on (which we didn't do because of everything - but plan to in the future)- so that is why I removed the bandage - good thing as I think 4-5 more days would have been very bad.
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 9, 2008 - 9:53 am:
Kathy, have you tried using PDZ or a similar product? I have used in under the bedding and in areas that the horses continually get wet and it mot only keeps the area drier, but gets rid of the odor so helps with the flies. I use it with shavings, but assume it would work with any bedding. If you have dirt floors in the barn, lime will help with odor and flies. I don't know how it works on rubber mats.
Good luck with your little guy. We've dealt with ill foals ourselves and I know how trying it can be. Even a foal with no problems can be a challenge at times. Hang in there.
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Member:
kshayden
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 9, 2008 - 10:21 am:
Thanks, I haven't heard of PDZ - but the web says I should be able to find it. I will look around.
I have heard mixed reviews on the use of lime around animals - I do have some, but because baby lays down so much and has open wounds, I would be concerned that it would irritate his skin.
any thoughts out there about the use of lime?
Thanks a bunch. Kathy
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Member:
rtrotter
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 9, 2008 - 11:16 am:
Kathy,
Sweet PDZ comes in both a powdered form and a granulated form. I prefer the granulated because I feel it is more absorbent than the powder. I used lime for many years before PDZ came out on the market. I stopped using lime because someone told me it had been linked to breathing/bleeding problems in race horses. I could believe that since when I did the stalls and used the lime I had a hard time breathing myself and I didn't have to live in the stall like my horses do. The lime created a lot of dust and I always had to make sure everything settled down before I put my horses back in.
I have not noticed the dust problem with the granulated PDZ and it can be used with any type of bedding.
If you have a local Agway store near you, they usually carry it.
Good luck
Rachelle
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 9, 2008 - 12:52 pm:
Kathy, Can you put up a box fan? A fan turned to medium speed usually helps to keep the flies off when the horse is stuck in a stall.
Good luck with your little guy - I hope that you get everything figured out with Rockets hooves.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 9, 2008 - 6:14 pm:
That is a good idea Fran as the circulating air will also help dry things out. As to recommendations I like shavings but you are going to have to look around to see what is available locally.
DrO
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Member:
paul303
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Posted on Wednesday, Jul 9, 2008 - 11:01 pm:
Wood pellets for bedding are good, if you like dry. Although it depends on what the floors of your stalls are right now. Still, over the years, I have used peat moss, straw, shavings and wood pellets. The wood pellets are the most absorbant vehicle I've found. If you spray ( mist ) them, they break down faster....but if you let the action of the horse's hooves work through them, on their own, they'll break down. And they'll do very well, while at the same time, keeping the stall exceedingly dry.
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Member:
paardex
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Posted on Thursday, Jul 10, 2008 - 7:18 am:
Putting Eucalyptus or Citronella oil on the woodshavings gives nice smell and flies hate it.With essential oils you just need a few DrOps so it won't hurt the foal.
Poor foal what a start!
Jos
PS Poor you too
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Member:
kshayden
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Posted on Thursday, Jul 10, 2008 - 8:47 am:
Thank you all for the posts. i just ordered some citronella - I have eucalyptus at home and will use that until it arrives.
I am wondering if I could take mare and foal to an irrigated pasture - grass is never mowed but grazed heavily - about 8-10" high and dark green. Would I need to worry about founder/colic with this change? Since it is not by me, and a favor, I won't be there to move them - would the mare need to be acclimated to the grass - 15 minutes - 20 minutes - a day for 2 weeks - I absolutely don't know about the foal - and since this isn't 'spring' grass - just don't know the answer.
The problem with irrigated pastures are the mosquitoes - which I don't have. We do live in high west nile area - mom had her shot in May - does baby need one? What age?
Thanks for all the help. Kathy
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Thursday, Jul 10, 2008 - 6:34 pm:
Yes you will need to acclimate anytime there is a remarkable change in the forage. You can acclimate the foal with the mare. See the article on forages for our recommended acclimation schedule at Horse Care » Equine Nutrition, Horse Feeds, Feeding » Forages for Horses, an Overview. For information on vaccinating the foal for West Nile see Diseases of Horses » Nervous System » Incoordination, Weakness, Spasticity, Tremors » West Nile Virus.
DrO
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