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Discussion on Severe Head Bobbing: No Leg Lameness!!
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New Member:
mirja
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Posted on Friday, Jul 18, 2008 - 9:40 pm:
I own a 9 y/o thoroughbred gelding who for the past 8 months has exhibited back/hip problems with no explanation we have been able to find. I am posting in the hopes that someone has experienced something similar or can direct me to desperately needed help and information.
2 years ago my gelding injured his sacroiliac joint (we believe by falling or rolling on a large stone in pasture) shortly after that he was rested and received chiropractic treatment to adjust twisted hips. Following the treatment he remained sound and in excellent condition for 2.5 years. However this past winter he began knocking himself in the front lower ankle, causing periods of lameness from 5 minutes to 1 hour (depending on the severity of the knock) , furthermore he began exhibiting this lameness / knocking shortly following jumping (up to 2 ¼’) His feet were slowly adjusted (to reduce the inward swing of the front left foot) and the knocking has since stopped with the helpful addition of SMB elite front boots. However he began head bobbing shortly after the knocking stopped (5 months ago). The head bobbing would start and stop randomly (no association with gait, collection or time worked) it would last anywhere from 3 steps to prolonged minutes of head bobbing and ranging from mild to severe. However there was no associated change in gait (not lame) and it did not happen everyday. He has been given bute, roboxin (muscle relaxer), he is on multiple joint supplements as well as electrolytes and vitamin e, he has had both his sacroiliac and his hocks injected, been given chiropractic treatments and massage therapy all with no results. He was x-rayed and exhibited only very minor arthritis of the hocks (typical of a working horse his age), he was sent to have scintigraphy and showed very minor positives around the sacroiliac and the hocks (which resulted in the injections of both joints). This past week he received chiropractic, massage and shock wave therapy to the back from behind the cantle through the sacroiliac. Furthermore I have tried every type of saddle pad from high whither, to shock absorbing and gel pads. Unfortunately all with no result. So if anyone has heard anything like this case, or thinks they may know something about it please write back. If you have any further questions I am more than happy to clarify. Our next step is acupuncture and a saddle fitter.
Thank you for you time
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Friday, Jul 18, 2008 - 11:39 pm:
Hi Mirja,
How frustrating for you. Has your veterinarian ever seen one of these episodes? What are the horse's vitals during/just after a head bobbing episode? What is his demeanor during them?
If you have truly ruled out a skeletal issue, other options could include many things including, I suppose, seizures, or other problems that are not connected to the years-ago fall.
I will be curious to hear DrO's thoughts. Sure hope you find an answer and, hopefully, a way to manage the problem.
Welcome to HA.
- Elizabeth
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New Member:
mirja
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 19, 2008 - 7:03 am:
Hello Elizabeth,
Our vet has been out to see him multiple times and unfortunately has only once seen one of the episodes and only very slightly. As far as heart rate and respiration he appears normal, his breathing does not increase or decrease significantly during or after, and there are no tight or painful muscles immediately before, during or immediately after (determined via a pressure sensitivity test along his back each time). His attitude remains normal with ears forward and willing to work, no external signs of pain or aggravation except for the extreme head bobbing.
- Mirja
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Member:
canter
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 19, 2008 - 10:13 am:
Hi Mirja,
Just curious - does your horse head bob only while under saddle or does he do it when he is moving without a rider?
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New Member:
mirja
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 19, 2008 - 12:04 pm:
Hello Fran,
The head bobbing occurs under saddle 99% of the time with only two instances of head bobbing while lunging (without tack or with) which immediately followed an episode of kicking, bucking or running. This is part of the reason I am looking into saddle fitting and how the saddle may be adversely effecting his back and movement.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 19, 2008 - 3:13 pm:
Hi Mirja, I see in your profile you state no turnout for your horse, is that because of injury?
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New Member:
mirja
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 19, 2008 - 4:22 pm:
Hello Diane,
Unfortunately we don't know if this is an injury, some sort of chronic condition or what it might be. As a result we don't want to risk him further damaging himself during turnout. He often gallops, rears, bucks and makes very sudden stops (in general tears around the turnout) which could cause further harm. So until I have some idea of what is wrong with him he won't be getting turnout without strict supervision.
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Member:
sunny66
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 19, 2008 - 6:06 pm:
Hi Mirja,
Just some ideas...
1. This happened again when you changed his shoeing to fix the knocking, correct? I would look again at his feet.
2. When my horse is lame behind, he doesn't head bob. When he is lame on the front limbs, he does. If he's been off in the hind end, he may be compensating in the front end. Check out the feet/legs on the front again just to see, I understand you don't think it's in his legs, just an idea.
You sound very competent and that you're looking at any possibility and I commend you for that! I think you're on the right track with the saddle fitting and accupuncture.
One last thought, when he gets the chiro treatments, is he out in the same place every time? Sac joint? Pelvis? It's possible the new shoeing is affecting his ligaments somehow and he's not able to hold the treatment.
Best of luck to you 
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New Member:
mirja
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 20, 2008 - 3:52 pm:
Hello Aileen,
Thank you for your input and ideas. The feet have been checked and rechecked, included via scintigraphy, nerve blocking, x-ray and flexion all since the head bobbing started. The results were all good. As far as lameness in the legs is concerned we are constantly monitoring movement, degree of flexibility and any signs of soreness and or sensitivity. He has not shown signs of leg related lameness since the knocking incidents. Other than some decreased tracking up from the back end which so far has not had any physical evidence for cause in the legs other than very minor arthritis (which has since been injected). However the concept of chiropractic not holding or sticking is an interesting one. Although the chiropractor indicated that the problems he is adjusting should not be causing head bobbing prior to adjustment. (The twisted hip which my gelding typically exhibits generally results in one lead or the other not being maintained, cross cantering and/or difficulty starting the correct lead.) However it is a very good idea which I will pursue with his chiropractor and may hopefully get us on the right path.
Thank you for you ideas and input
Mirja
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Member:
sunny66
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 20, 2008 - 7:24 pm:
Hi Mirja,
I wonder if instead of the hips, it may be the ligaments near the sac joint, ask the chiro about that too. Another thought, did the chiro do anything to his shoulders, neck or withers?
A farrier once told me that 90% of lamenesses are fixed when the hooves are fixed. He worked for a vet clinic for 20 years or so and that's what he found. Hence my thought about his feet
I'm hoping, though, that saddle fit is all it is! Please keep us updated and good luck.
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Member:
mirja
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 20, 2008 - 9:17 pm:
Hello Aileen,
It very well may be the ligaments near the sac joint, because they were involved in the injury 3 years ago, causing a raised hard bump to form above the joint in his back (1/4" - 1/2" high), which still appears periodically to this day (although does not always result in lameness, discomfort or head bobbing). Typically a ligament injury should respond favorably to shock wave, even if it is only the analgesic effects lasting (usually) at least 1 hour (if not hopefully longer) but he is not responding in the typical fashion to the shock wave which is why I have been forced to examine other possibilities. But I am holding out hope that it turns out to be something as simple (relatively speaking compared to deeper spinal and /or joint issues) as a strained or injured ligament. (In which case he will receive extensive rest and therapeutic treatments such as shock wave)
The chiropractor did "pop" his lower neck in order to relieve very mild tension that was building in the left side. However no other adjustments have been necessary to the shoulders or withers. The vast majority of his chiropractic adjustments have occurred from the mid back through the hips.
He is being sent to Tufts Medical Center for a complete evaluation and workup which will hopefully provide some much needed answers.
Your questions have been insightful and intelligent thank you for input and ideas . . . I will continue to use them in my evaluations of him.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Jul 21, 2008 - 1:25 pm:
Hello Mirja,
You can see head bobbing before you see a change in the gait, so I suspect you are having lameness problems. Also to note is that rarely you can get a head bob with hind limb lameness though usually you will see gait changes behind along, shortened stride and hip hike. The key to whether the head bob might be associated with the head bob is whether the ipsilateral or contralateral hindlimb is associated with the head bob at the trot. For more on this see the article, The Diagnosis of Lameness. Since the incident is associated with the saddle I would also note an incidence of rein lameness we once saw where the breast plate was rubbing on a sore area of the skin of the shoulder and many cases of saddle lameness because of a sharp point. The key to this is going to be to get a good exam while he is doing it consistently.
DrO
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Member:
mirja
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Posted on Friday, Aug 22, 2008 - 10:56 pm:
Thank you everyone for all of your advice and ideas. Ant was sent to Tufts Medical Center for ultrasound and the result was two ligament legions in his spine. One appears to be a chronic or recurring injury resulting from damage done about 3 years ago to his sacroiliac. The second is of unknown origin. The medical staff has confirmed that although the symptoms of head bobbing and intermittent lameness are unusual it is not unheard of to see head bobbing with back discomfort. He has been placed on 4 months walking rest and we hope to start bringing him back to work in the new year.
Thank you again for everyone who took the time to respond.
Mirja
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Member:
sunny66
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 24, 2008 - 9:14 am:
Mirja, thanks for the update! Good to know. I hope your boy recovers well.
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Member:
mirja
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Posted on Monday, Jan 26, 2009 - 2:00 pm:
Hello Again,
Ant returned to Tufts for his follow up ultrasound. The chronic lesion has healed “better than expected” however the second lesion still appears to be present. It was explained to me that this could be the result of granular fill. In other words it is healing but does not look like it in the ultrasound. As a result of these findings he is supposed to start load bearing rehab. Technically this means I can begin riding him at the walk and gradually work my way up to 5 minutes of trot over the next 12 weeks (followed by another trip to Tufts). The problem is he is just not calm enough to ride and he shouldn’t be lunged. So I am looking for any and all suggestions to put weight on and strengthen his back. These can be tools, equipment, or exercises . . . anything would be appreciated.
Thank you for any help,
Mirja
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Member:
hollyw
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Posted on Monday, Jan 26, 2009 - 2:40 pm:
Carrot stretches to get him to stretch his nose down and between his front legs toward his girth will stretch the muscles of his back. Also, backing exercises . . . backing up an incline will help him get under himself and stretch those back muscles.
If you have a friend to help, stretching a blanket or towel under his belly and holding up on both ends of the towel to get him to suck up his tummy, will help.
I'm sure there are many other exercises that folks will have. Maybe someone knows of a book with specific techniques for back strengthening and weight bearing exercises. Does your vet have any recommendations?
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 27, 2009 - 8:16 am:
How about ground driving, you and your horse can get back into shape.
DrO
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 27, 2009 - 10:02 am:
If you hang around any former race riders, you could also borrow a race saddle and saddle weights to slowly build up his ability to carry weight on his topline, while still hand walking or ground driving him.
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Member:
mirja
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 27, 2009 - 10:43 am:
Holly - Thank you for the suggestions. My only concerns with back stretches and tummy tucks are the possible negative effects on the lesion - the big no while he was on walk was anything that would over flex his back (scope or arch) - i am checking with his vet and hopefully I will be able to start implementing your ideas.
Mirja
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Member:
mirja
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 27, 2009 - 10:46 am:
Dr O - Could you please clarify what you mean when you say "ground driving" and explain how this would help strengthen his back? Thank you
elk - thank you for the suggestion I have actually been looking into getting saddle weights, or weight equipment but can not seem to find any online dealers - do you happen to know of any?
Thank You,
Mirja
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Member:
ekaufman
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 27, 2009 - 11:48 am:
Hi Mirja,
Here is an example of what I meant, though I'm sure there are many options, including borrowing or buying used. I haven't tried this product, but it does seem designed with some thought for the horse's back. https://www.bestpad.com/racewt.htm
Ground driving is also sometimes called long-lining-- lots of resources out there on this technique, but you drive the horse from behind w/o a cart or shafts, which gives you much more control than lunging, and allows you to travel on a straight line (or really any figure). As long as the horse is driven correctly, long lining will encourage him to engage from behind and use his topline, which certainly would strengthen his back. It's also a good way to re-engage his brain after such a long layup.
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Member:
warthog
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Posted on Tuesday, Jan 27, 2009 - 2:02 pm:
I like the idea of a race saddle and weights in it.
we've used a western or western style endurance saddle and secured a 50 pound sack of feed to the saddle using the stirrups and some adjustable straps but be SURE it is secure and held tightly to the saddle if you have to duct tape it on. the last thing you need is for it to fall off. I would also use a pad that has the gap all the way down the center that is raised so there is no pressure on his spine. You might try one of those new memory foam pads also just to see how he likes it.
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Member:
mirja
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Posted on Wednesday, Jan 28, 2009 - 3:45 pm:
elk - the best pad site has beautiful race equipment unfortunately to the max weight is 25lbs (in a saddle pad) and that is $835. As for Ground Driving I may give that a try (with consideration to the busy nature of the rings where I ride)
warthog - thank you for the saddle pad suggestion he has a range of saddle pads including a spine gap pad (to alleviate pressure) as well as a high impact pad. But I wasn't aware of the new memory foam pads - i will have to look into that
Thank You,
Mirja
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