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Discussion on A different definition for WLD
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 26, 2008 - 1:05 pm:
I have been doing a lot of reading about feet lately, and came across a chapter in the book "Lameness, Recognizing and Treating the Horse's Most common Ailment" which seems to imply that WLD is any separation between the hoof wall and the sole at the while line. The book says that it can be caused by several factors including improper trimming, going too long between trims/shoeing, environmental conditions like going between too wet and too dry, laminitis, abscesses, and trauma to the hoof wall. It says that although many farrier publications attribute WLD to Onychomycosis, and although many fungi and species of bacteria can be found in these separated areas, onychomycosis isn't the cause.
So, I guess my question is, IS any separation WLD and should it be treated as such? A couple of our older horses have some slight separation along the white line, and some darkening of the line; I've never been concerned because the areas haven't been soft or cheesy, and because our farrier has never mentioned it.
Thanks.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 26, 2008 - 2:08 pm:
Sara, This is my understanding of it. I don't THINK separation is considered WLD, tho I think it needs to exist for WLD to take hold. I believe it is when the wall becomes undermined you probably have WLD. The thing I can't figure out is how to reconize it in the early stages before that happens?
My horses also have that black line if I scrape away at the WL. I have come to the conclusion (right or wrongly) that it is something like thrush. I have treated it as such and it went away. Though I really wonder if that couldn't be the beginning stage of WLD and the underminig of the wall???
Good questions
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 26, 2008 - 2:39 pm:
Diane, the more I read and try to learn about feet the more confused I get!
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Member:
mandrie
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 26, 2008 - 3:09 pm:
Having been battling WLD for more quite some time, I am convinced that it begins with a mechanical stressor that stretches the whiteline (in my horse's case, I think the breeder let the toes get too long, and left him in a wet field), allowing for opportunistic fungi, bacteria, whatever. Just when I think I have this thing licked, a new area is found. I have resigned myself to accepting that I need to be constantly vigilant, and that his hoofs are never going to be perfect.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 26, 2008 - 3:33 pm:
Marie anne, You are right a stretched white line or (separation) is where the WLD begins. To my understanding though, not all horses with separation actually get WLD.
Though thrush and WLD are two different entities, I still wonder if that black line isn't a precursor. Most people wouldn't notice that black line, unless they scratched a bit at the WL. If Hank didn't have a hoof type that I examine all the time I would never had noticed and treated it.
Sara, I will say the thing that got rid of that black line very quickly, after trying numerous things was the dry cow stuff (tomorrow).
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 26, 2008 - 4:04 pm:
The book I was reading mentioned improper trimming/shoeing or going too long between trims/shoes as being one cause. I guess what really confuses me, is that we had one of our horses down to Las Vegas to a vet who specializes in legs/feet to get digital x-rays and have his feet done down there. This horse has had on and off problems which we are trying to resolve once and for all. While the farrier was working, I saw separation, and when I asked about it, he said it was nothing to worry about. Then, I read the chapter in this book which seemed to say that all separation is WLD. Now, I am wondering if the horse has WLD and that could be part of his problem. Several of our horses have a black line, which I've also asked about in the past, and been told "it's nothing."
This book did say that once there is an opening in the hoof, like the separation between wall and sole, the same bacteria that causes thrush can get started in the separation, along with other bacteria and fungi.
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 26, 2008 - 5:23 pm:
Last year when Hank foundered and I had the vet out he dug that black line out, and actually it ran pretty deep, he called it WLD.
Remember that thread I had where his back hoof cracked off. After the vet dug that black line out and his hoof cracked, then regrew, the farrier said that's his best looking hoof, seems he never has separation in that one anymore.
https://www.horseadvice.com/horse/messages/4/196026.html
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Member:
quatro
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Posted on Saturday, Jul 26, 2008 - 5:47 pm:
Hey Sara,Diane and Marie Ann, I have been battling that white line issue for over a year now as well. I know what you mean when you say you resign yourself to it marie ann, you will drive yourself crazy if you don't. I have seen several different types of deterioration on levi's feet, so it is hard to know what is going on all the time. When the vet who finally diagnosed the WLD in Levi showed me, and resected Levis foot (see Levi's White Line disease post for pics), the fungusy stuff just flaked away like dried up dirty cottage cheese. the other thing I will notice, and now we have on his last good back foot, is more like when the sole becomes old, and chalky before trimming, but I can dig out quite a bit before hitting solid white line.
I am curious as to if these aluminum shoes that Levi has been in for a few years now, would have anything to do with this continued problem? Anyone have any feelings on this?
suz
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 27, 2008 - 8:18 am:
Hello All,
Any disease of the white line could be called "white line disease". Traditionally however this term was used to describe the disease in the article. But thrush and laminitis are two other diseases of the white line so it may be more appropriate to call it Onychomycosis, which refers to fungal infections of the finger nails in humans. In horses the most specific description of what is traditionally called white line disease may be:
"A metaplastic condition of the distal or terminal white line that results in its softening and deterioration. It is associated with several common soil fungi but most frequently the genus Scedosporium."
Personally I think in time an even better term will be found as the disease becomes better understood. Until then this is a discussion in definitions of a well characterised clinical entity. I have noted Onychomycosis in horses that formerly had healthy well cared for feet as well as those not regularly trimmed.
DrO
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Sunday, Jul 27, 2008 - 11:04 am:
Thanks,Dr.O.
So, is any separation between the wall and sole considered a problem and something to be concerned about, or do you not need to be concerned if there is no softening of the white line? Or is the seperation itself "deterioration" and something that should be treated? (Do I just need more coffee this morning??)
Since Onychomycosis infects human nails. Is this something we need to be concerned about when treating a horse with WLD?
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Jul 28, 2008 - 6:41 am:
Defects in the white line should always be of concern as they represent a weakness in the hoof structure. Treatment and prognosis will depend on cause and severity.
I do not know of any known association between WLD in horses and onychomycosis in humans but whenever handling infected material care should be exercised.
DrO
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Monday, Jul 28, 2008 - 10:33 am:
Thanks, Dr.O. I wonder why whenever you ask about any separation or darkness in the white line, all the farriers (at least any I've asked) have always said it is nothing to worry about? I am having farrier problems and am frustrated with all of them at this point!
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Member:
scooter
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Posted on Monday, Jul 28, 2008 - 7:17 pm:
Sara, the last farrier I had always said that too. He didn't do anything about the horses separations, flares and after a couple years of him my horses feet fell apart...especially Hanks., but the other 2 have hooves of steel and they looked so horrible it made me sick. Sam got terribly lame. When I started using the farrier I have now, he started removing the flares, it took 6 mos. before the 2 oldies hooves were back in shape. The old farrier said the hoof wall flares were how they balanced themselves .
My new farrier isn't the greatest farrier ever, but he sure got their hooves looking much better, and the oldies much sounder. Once the flares/sparations were gone. Hank is Hank, but he has done a good job with him also, especially considering what he had to start with!
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Member:
mrose
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Posted on Monday, Jul 28, 2008 - 9:33 pm:
None of the horses that I've seen this on have problems, but I'm going to keep an eye on them. I'm having farrier issues now with a horse that's at the trainers and it's sure frustrating. However, I don't think it has anything to do with WLD, but seems like farrier would say "we should keep an eye on it, or treat it," or something other than "it's nothing!"
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