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Discussion on Floating bone spur in 2 year old
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New Member:
kemp12
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 7, 2008 - 9:16 am:
I have a 2 year old that is has been in training 30 days. I had her knees xrayed about a month ago. I noticed that she would not pick up the right lead on the lunge line. She did as a yearling. The vet found a floating bone spur (I think that is what he said) in the right knee area. He said not to canter her till September and that it would work itself out. She is not lame at all-- I ride her about 5 times a week for about 30 to 45 minutes at a trot. I tried yesterday to get her into the right lead and she refused-- both on the lunge line and under saddle. I am wondering if I should be riding her at all or if I need another vet to xray and give opinion. I don't want to do anything to damage this filly's legs.
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Member:
brock
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 7, 2008 - 12:49 pm:
Can we discuss what is the appropriate amount of exercise for a two year old in this thread as well please? I have my first two year old and 50% of people tell me one thing and the other 50% tell me something else regarding level of exercise. Just how much is a two year old expected to do, or able to do, without possible injury (under saddle in particular)?
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New Member:
kemp12
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 7, 2008 - 8:44 pm:
UPDATE!
I got a clearer diagnosis from my vet.
He said she has pointy bone spurs behind her knee that will round out with 90 days rest.
I called another vet and he of course wants to look at the xrays. He said that generally bone spurs do not "round out" and that he would bute her 2 grams a day for five days and see if she takes the right lead with bute. (free lunging in the round pen) Now she takes it only about 20% of the time and usually hops in it and then quickly breaks down in the trot. Cantering to the left is very smooth and fluid. If she takes the right lead with the bute, then we know that pain is the reason for her not taking it. He said nothing can be done for bone spurs or any knee operation and I am just wondering what to do.
This horse is so special to me. Please advise Dr. O!!!!
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New Member:
kemp12
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Posted on Thursday, Aug 7, 2008 - 9:57 pm:
Just in case you want to see her movement. IT is a little long, there is cantering in the left lead at the end of the clip. Sorry, but I am really seeking a good opinion/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0sUsN6Rx4I
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Friday, Aug 8, 2008 - 6:09 am:
Welcome Jennifer,
Without seeing the radiographs and examining the horse I cannot comment on what your veterinarian is talking about. In general bone spurs, called osteophytes, will remodel a bit in time but the gist of what the second veterinarian said is accurate: they don't "smooth out" and then this indicates things are alright. Osteophytes occur do to stress in the joint so are fairly common and though they don't always correlate with clinical problems they are associated with osteoarthritis.
I like the idea of the bute test for lameness causing the lead problem but wonder if the early onset of an osteophyte may indicate a bit too much work too early.
Pam you will not find a more controversial subject than when to begin a horses work in earnest and much depends on what kind of work a horse is doing. I will saddle and sit a horse at two but more for the learning experiences and recommend waiting till 3 years of age before beginning work in earnest. There are some equine experts who suggest you wait till 6 before beginning real work.
DrO
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New Member:
kemp12
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Posted on Friday, Aug 8, 2008 - 8:20 am:
Thank you Dr. O! I have decided to halt all riding until she is 3. I am going to try and get the xrays and hopefully post them sometime over the weekend. I would greatly appreciate if you could give me your opinion on the severity of the bone spur in her knee.
Thanks again!
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Member:
brock
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Posted on Friday, Aug 8, 2008 - 10:54 am:
Thanks Dr. O. I agree with you that we start these 'babies' way too early. I read a quote somewhere that said, "We don't send 10 year old boys to to work in coal mines so why would we expect young 2 year old colts/fillies to work like 6 year olds."
I have a 2 year old Missouri Fox Trotter filly and who is extremely quiet and have introduced her to a wide variety of things (plastic bags, umbrella, tarps) and slap her all over, touch her everywhere, etc. I have saddled her and bridled her and we just wander around the arena getting her used to having me on her back and working off my leg etc. I can sit on her bareback and ride her around the arena as well. That's the extent of it for this season and we'll up the anty a little next year.
I have watched the QH Futurities and when I see what those 3 year olds are expected to do, I can't imagine what those poor babies were put through at 2 to get them there.
There's so much you can do with your youngster at 2 other than rigorous saddle work in order to prepare them for when they do start their training. Use your imagination and have fun with them!!
I did a search on your website and found this great article by Dr. Deb from a previous post. I printed it out, but now I can't find it. I'll try again once I post this.
Also, can someone walk me through the process of uploading a picture on here? Every time I try and attach one I get an error message.
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Member:
brock
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Posted on Friday, Aug 8, 2008 - 11:03 am:
I found the article by Dr. Deb:
www.equinestudies.org/knowledge_base/ranger.html
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New Member:
kemp12
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Posted on Friday, Aug 8, 2008 - 8:21 pm:
Here is an xray of Claire's knee. I can't see anything but of course I am not a vet. Please advise! Thank you! Please tell me how bad you think it is. I am not riding her for 6 months. That decision has already been made.
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Member:
lisao
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Posted on Friday, Aug 8, 2008 - 8:25 pm:
I agree with Pam! I put blankets, pads, and saddles (light Wintecs) on my horses at 1 - we do in-hand work at this point. At about 1.5 I will introduce the bridle and do more in-hand work. I will introduce lunge no earlier than 2 and then only to give them the idea - no more than 10 minutes and no more than trot. Then they get time off (just general grooming, handling, etc.). At about 3, I start lunging more, and when the horse is very obedient to voice aids and has built up a little strength, I will back them...this is at 3.5. Then for the next 6 months or so we go have fun on trails - walk, trot and canter - over some terrain. Nothing major and low, low stress. I have never had trouble starting horses with this general strategy.
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Member:
kemp12
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Posted on Saturday, Aug 9, 2008 - 12:29 am:
I thought maybe it would be helpful to put the Left knee xrays to compare with the right knee ones. The vet said it was right knee in which she had the pointy bone spurs. It is also the right knee in which she doesn't pick up the right lead naturally and hesistates before taking it in the round pen. Again please tell my your Dr. O on how severe the bone spurs are and if with adequate rest (6 months) she can have a chance to return to light riding-- Walk Trot classes, and maybe some light loping in some HUS classes at 3 years of age. If she is better, do you think I will know by the filly picking up the right lead-- or would you suggest another xray in 6 months??
Thanks a million!!
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Member:
kemp12
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Posted on Sunday, Aug 10, 2008 - 6:38 pm:
Dr. O,
I am going to another vet on Monday, but I was just curious what you thought of the right knee xray?
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Monday, Aug 11, 2008 - 9:51 am:
Hello Jennifer,
I apologize for the slow response but we were traveling this weekend and my notebook does provide as clear an image as my office computer and internet was all slow dial up.
Is your veterinarian concerned about the irregularity to the posterior distal radius, just at and below the physis (growth plate0? Growth plate irregularities are not uncommon usually not of much significance by themselves, though I have never seen anything quite like that. Yes those are likely to disappear as the horse matures but for a significance I would refer to a radiologist/orthopedic surgeon for evaluation.
That aside is that a small set of osteophytes on the anterior margin of the carpometacarpal joint. That would be the lowest joint space in the first image above. I can't quite make it out from this images but it that is what they are I would consider it a sign to slow down a bit.
I did not see anything amiss in the video it looked like a pretty normal left lead canter.
DrO
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Member:
kemp12
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Posted on Monday, Aug 11, 2008 - 8:13 pm:
I sent the xrays via email to my vet. He agreed with you on the growth plate abnormalities. He said it is calcification, which means inflamation on the growth plate that 1. means it is not fully closed and 2. that the filly has had too much exercise on the joint. He recommended 6 months rest and then after 6 months flex the knee, and if there is still right lead problems, xray the knee. He did not see any permanent damage to the joint at all, and thought the 'lipping' on the inside top joint (another vet had pointed this out) thought this was just the angle of the xray. Do you have any articles on growth plate inflamation? I am waiting for still a third opinion from a vet at Texas ATM.
I really appreciate your comments. Thanks so much!
By the way, I went out and flexed both of Claire's knees (1 minute) and she gave no resistance. I trotted her off, but really couldn't tell anything. My vet thought a flexion test would tell us the most.
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Moderator:
DrO
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Posted on Tuesday, Aug 12, 2008 - 6:40 am:
For more on growth plate disease and diagnosis see, Diseases of Horses » Lameness » Joint, Bone, Ligament Diseases » Epiphysitis, Physitis, and Physeal Dysplasia.
DrO
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