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  Discussion on Possible hernia in 12 yr old mare
Author Message
Member:
pfdusty

Posted on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 - 1:20 pm:

Some of you probably remember Dallas, my Paso Mare that we rescued 2 years ago (severely emaciated, corners of her mouth cut, scars from being beaten, scared to death of people.
I have been working ground work with her and she is doing fabulous.

To make a long story short.
I was about 1 week away to try to put her under saddle and she came up with a cold and snotty nose/cough. Of course this happened about 2 days after my vet went on her vacation. I started her on antibiotics for 7 days and we knocked out the snotty nose. Cough still was there but not as bad.

While I am doctoring her I noticed a lump on her left side towards the back bottom of her flanks. I can cup that lump with my hand and it will fit in my hand. It's not hot to the touch and it's not painful.

A couple days later after finishing the antibiotics her cough got stronger again and snot came back. Now my vet is back from her vacation and she came right over. We put Dallas back on antibiotics for another 7-10 days and hopefully this will do it.

Vet looked at her lump and says: It looks like a possible hernia. Take her to the University and have them do an ultrasound (it can't be done at the barn because this mare needs a stock chute or she will kick the equipment and the vet).
I called the University and left a message for the Vet that had seen Dallas before. The Vet called back at 8 pm!!! (I'm impressed) and we talked about it. She said to get Dallas through her cold first and then schedule an appointment. If it is a hernia then she will need surgery, stay in the clinic for 21 days and then has a 3 month recovery IF it's a simple hernia and they don't have to move organs.

So, now I have to wait for her to get healthy and then take her. I feel horrible about having to put her through this. She is just now starting to trust people again (after 2 years).

Anyway, I have no clue how she got the cold, no new horses came in and nobody went anywhere.

Does anyone have any experience with hernias, procedures, recovery and $$$?

I could just listen to the vets but I always do my research because I want to be as informed as possible about pros and cons. I just can seem to find any information for hernias that don't have to do with colic surgeries or umbilical etc.
It scares me to death!
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 - 2:09 pm:

Applying the medicine might be tough if she doesn't like to be touched and you don't have stocks...But maybe since she stays at hospital for 21 days you wont need to apply medicine when she gets home??
If you can schedule the surgery when fly population is at its lowest helps too.
Are they doing a mesh procedure or a staple one?
Member:
pfdusty

Posted on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 - 2:35 pm:

I think it will be the mesh procedure. The hernia (if that's what it is) fits in one hand. I assume that is considered large. I have been touching it every day every time I handle her and she lets me touch it just fine. No troubles and I hope it stays that way.

I would like to know how a hernia develops since there was no trauma, no kick , no nothing.
Member:
leslie1

Posted on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 - 4:02 pm:

I read somewhere that mares can have Inguinal hernias. I dont know how common they are in mares.
is that what kind she has? What did your vet/university have to say? I wonder if it was there all along, but smaller and now has some edema going on. Do you know if she had alot of babes?
you just never know what goes on with the rescue horses as far as treatment. I feel that if someone is stupid enough to starve/abuse a horse then they probably would be dumb enough to get on one at 6months of age, and strain the abdominal wall. Keep a close eye out for colic.
I wish I could be more help.
Member:
pfdusty

Posted on Monday, Aug 18, 2008 - 5:04 pm:

She did have 1 foal 4 years ago that we know of. I don't know if there is a specific name for this kind of hernia.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 - 10:23 am:

Hello Moni,
As is so often the case it depends on the details to answer your questions, most important which tissues are herniated and how badly. Until a exact diagnosis is made there are too many possibilities. I will say this is an odd place for an older horse to develop a hernia but the US will show. If it is a hernia in this area, a mesh should not be needed as their is plenty of soft tissue to close here.
DrO
Member:
pfdusty

Posted on Tuesday, Aug 19, 2008 - 11:52 am:

Thanks DrO. I will try to get a good picture of it as well and post it.
She still coughs about 3-6 times a day but the nose has cleared up. I will finish a 10 day antibiotics. How long should I wait till it is safe to haul her to the clinic (it is very stressful for her), she has 3 days of antibiotics left.
Member:
pfdusty

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 - 12:02 am:

Here are links to 3 images. The third one shows how the shape of the suspected hernia changes depending how she holds her leg:

https://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm159/pfdusty/Horses/Dallas/IMG_1062.jpg

https://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm159/pfdusty/Horses/Dallas/IMG_1063.jpg

https://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm159/pfdusty/Horses/Dallas/IMG_1064.jpg
Member:
canter

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 - 7:37 am:

Hi Moni, the links did not work for me - I got a message saying the images had been moved or deleted.
Member:
pfdusty

Posted on Wednesday, Aug 20, 2008 - 12:25 pm:

I don't know what happened, i'm going to try again:
hernia 1

Hernia 2

Hernia 3
Member:
pfdusty

Posted on Saturday, Aug 23, 2008 - 11:07 pm:

We did an ultrasound at the barn and it looks like a tear in the abdominal wall. So I guess it's a hernia. We are scheduled to go for another ultrasound and then possibly surgery on 22 September (they want to wait 30 days to get all meds out of her system for surgery). I'm wondering if this is considered large? When do they use staples and when mesh?
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Sunday, Aug 24, 2008 - 7:45 am:

To present this way and at this location the hernia has to be a tear through 3 muscular/connective tissue layers. However if a hernia, this should be closable without mesh unless there is some problem with the quality of the surrounding tissue.
DrO
Member:
pfdusty

Posted on Tuesday, Sep 23, 2008 - 10:17 pm:

I took my girl to the University today. Everything we thought we knew blew out the window.

First of all the hernia that Dallas has does not need to be repaired unless it gets worse. So that's great news. Supposedly the tear is only partial and there is a muscle that already attached itself to hernia and is stabilizing it. I was told that the risks involved with a surgery in this location would be greater than not fixing it. The only thin that matters to me is that she is sound and can be ridden. Looks dont' matter.

But, since she had a temp of 101.7 (which I thought was due to stress) they did some more testing on the lungs and decided to do chest x-rays.
Come to find out my girl has COPD (I'm turning into a COPD pro ) and now as a secondary complication caught pneumonia. Which we had no clue about either. So ... we went to get a hernia surgery and ended up with a stay to treat the pneumonia. I never saw her breathing hard in the last 2 years so the COPD is not in an advanced stage (I assume).

It is just heart wrenching. Dallas has the worst luck, after all we have been through (she is the Paso mare I told you all about with the mental issues who was abused etc.) and now this.

I guess the good thing is we caught it and she should be fine for the occasional trail ride etc.
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 24, 2008 - 8:58 am:

Moni, I would be interested in the objective findings of the ultrasound: did you receive a written report that you would post here. If not one should be obtained for your records.

COPD in the early stages is completely manageable and there is no reason why she cannot do everything a normal horse can do with proper management, for more on this see the article on COPD in the Respiratory Disease Topic. What I don't understand is how does one diagnose COPD underneath a acute pneumonia, particularly in a horse with no history of COPD related symptoms?
DrO
Member:
pfdusty

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 24, 2008 - 11:35 am:

What the Docs said was that on the x-ray the bronchia lining should fade within the x-ray and it did not and looks like it is calcified (sp?).
That's why they think it is COPD and that she supposed to have had it for a while.
I'm going back today to visit since they will to a traechia wash and will ask for written details since my barn vet wants them too. They should also have more results from the blood work etc.

Once I get reports in writing I will make sure to post it here!

Thank you DrO!
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Wednesday, Sep 24, 2008 - 8:17 pm:

Hmmm, though calcification of the respiratory tree is reported in the horse, I have never seen it used for the diagnosis of COPD. I would not be surprised if horses with COPD might have increase calcification but calcification may not be a specific and/or sensitive indicator of COPD. More importantly your horse has never had signs of COPD.
DrO
Member:
pfdusty

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 14, 2008 - 9:30 pm:

I did not get a written report of the ultrasound. All that was written I put together on the attachment in a pdf document (it's about the lab work and trachial wash).

I do have to say that my local vet basically asked the same questions. This horse has never showed any signs of COPD and here blood work supposedly doesn't really show anything in regards to the pneumonia.
Member:
pfdusty

Posted on Tuesday, Oct 14, 2008 - 10:19 pm:

Here is a link to the paperwork:

https://www.dthr.org/forms/Dallas%20details.pdf
Moderator:
DrO

Posted on Thursday, Oct 16, 2008 - 8:04 am:

Moni did you tell them your horse was recovering from a recent respiratory infection. As I sit here and write this I am recovering from a bout of the flu from last week and coughing up what I have no doubt would fit the descriptive pathology of your horses TTW cytology. I do not see the diagnosis of COPD in all this.
DrO
Member:
pfdusty

Posted on Thursday, Oct 16, 2008 - 12:06 pm:

Dr. O, I hope you get to feel better very quickly!

I guess I forgot to copy one more paper, but all it says she has COPD and to manage her like any other COPD horse.
It's been busy here, if I can find some time I'll try to scan it in as well.

Thank you for taking the time to read all this stuff.
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